Is it any wonder that secular people think Christians are weird!?!?

[Tom Wetmore]

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/05/10_weirdest_right_wing_christian_conspiracy_theories_partner/

OK. The focus of this is on weird ideas among Christians and not really so much about conservative vs. liberal or politics. So let's refrain from political and liberal vs. conservative whining and mud slinging. And of course Christians are not the only source of lunacy of this sort and not all Christians are wacky nutters. But let's be honest, we tend to have more than our fair share and many of those among us seem to have the loudest voices and attract the most attention of the secular media.

If Christians dwell in an alien zone and concoct ideas strange to the rest of the world, how are we ever to connect with them to give them the real good news?

[CoAspen]

Hope you have on your best suit of armor!!!

[Neil D]

I saw this article last night....totally wierd....and I thought the conspiracy theorists among us were bad.... Well, I'll go away again...but Tom, buy abspestos underwear... two reasons....1] they are a lot more comfortable when the fires of hell come in retrobution and 2] I own stock in it....

[debbym]

Christians are the hardest group to bring the gospel to.

[Gail]

Ah HA- you see? I have this theory that dwelling on conspiracy theories makes one mental. Now here's proof!

It's like they've lost all rights to use their brains or something!

[Neil D]

It's like they've lost all rights to use their brains or something!

Coming from a Christian, directed at christians, and sounding like one who is a non-christian.....just strikes me as funny....Ironically true, but funny...

[phkrause]

Those were pretty hilarious that's for sure.

[Gerr]

Never heard any of these claims before. They are weird for sure. Dig up all the weird theories of the right to discredit all Christians through guilt by association. Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

[LifeHiscost]

Maybe it was a Divine source that chose to deliver from a source harmful to my Christian walk, as each time I made effort to follow the web page that came up when clicking on the URL, after about 5-10 seconds the page would disappear, but it's just as well after considering the negative posts about the content.

"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"Matthew 7:14-16 NASB

God cares! Hope your Sabbath is a

[Bravus]

The mindset that says faith is belief that occurs in the absence of evidence or in the face of evidence to the contrary leaves people with no defense against these kinds of ideas. If evidence is considered to be irrelevant there is no way of checking and correcting one's ideas against reality.

[Tom Wetmore]

Even Google apparently gets it and is concerned! Right after I read the posts in this topic, the Google ad that popped up on the side was for talktala, with the tag line, "It's time to talk to a therapist."

[LifeHiscost]

The mindset that says faith is belief that occurs in the absence of evidence or in the face of evidence to the contrary leaves people with no defense against these kinds of ideas. If evidence is considered to be irrelevant there is no way of checking and correcting one's ideas against reality.

"And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."John 20:28-31 NKJV

God cares!

[BobRyan]

OK. The focus of this is on weird ideas among Christians and not really so much about conservative vs. liberal or politics. So let's refrain from political and liberal vs. conservative whining and mud slinging.

Sounds interesting - until we read the first paragraph of your link -

"For the Christian right, having a “faith-based” worldview extends far beyond claims about demons and angels. Unsurprisingly, the world of fundamentalist Christians is absolutely crawling with conspiracy theories, urban legends, and just plain bizarre beliefs "

And of course -- it is on "Salon" which should tell you something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_%28website%29

The brainchild of Talbot.

" After (Talbot) graduated from the University of California at Santa Cruz, he returned to Los Angeles, where he wrote a history of the Hollywood Left, "Creative Differences", and freelanced for Crawdaddy, Rolling Stone, and other magazines. He later was hired by Environmental Action Foundation in Washington, D.C. to write "Power and Light," a book about the politics of energy.

After he returned to California, he was hired as an editor at Mother Jones magazine, and later, by San Francisco Examiner publisher Will Hearst to edit the newspaper's Sunday magazine, Image. It was at the Examiner where Talbot developed the idea for Salon,"

Mother Jones??

"Mother Jones (abbreviated MoJo) is a politically left-wing[2] American magazine, featuring investigative and breaking news reporting on politics, the environment, human rights, and culture"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Jones_%28magazine%29

So when Tablot goes after "Christians on the right" - we can be sure he is "unbiased and balanced"??

Really?

Is it because some have supposed Christians were supposedly born yesterday?

[Gail]

If a liberal, conservative, on-the-fence or backslidden Christian came up with those ideas I would STILL think they are strange. And Christians don't have a monopoly on conspiracy theories.

[Bravus]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

The mindset that says faith is belief that occurs in the absence of evidence or in the face of evidence to the contrary leaves people with no defense against these kinds of ideas. If evidence is considered to be irrelevant there is no way of checking and correcting one's ideas against reality.

"And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."John 20:28-31 NKJV

The problem with this, used the way it's being used here, is that it gives you no criterion to choose between, say, believing that Jesus rose from the dead and believing that humanity is ruled by a race of intelligent alien lizard-human hybrids.

If you believe anything without seeing the evidence, or in the face of contrary evidence, you end up believing anything at all.

Call me Doubting Thomas if you like. But (a) Thomas will be in heaven and ( Jesus chose to give Thomas the evidence he needed.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Call me Doubting Thomas if you like. But (a) Thomas will be in heaven and ( Jesus chose to give Thomas the evidence he needed.

Praise God for that fact. It is not those who honestly need greater evidence that will not enter the kingdom, but those who do not know Jesus, Who alone reveals the Father through the actions Jesus expects His sheep to emulate.

"“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

“Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock."

Matthew 7:21-24 NLT

God cares!

[Gerr]

Sounds like my conspiracy theory just might have some validity after all.

[BobRyan]

If a liberal, conservative, on-the-fence or backslidden Christian came up with those ideas I would STILL think they are strange. And Christians don't have a monopoly on conspiracy theories.

That's how smear campaigns work - as it turns out.

Talbot - former editor of Mother Jones mag - was not asleep at the wheel when his Salon.Com did that hatchet job on Christians.

Start off with the the most bizarre - and smear Christians as you go.

It was used in the dark ages by the RCC to dupe the unwitting public into demonizing protesting Catholic groups.

Anyone who has read the Great Controversy knows that the very groups listed as being persecuted are said by the RCC itself to have been "exterminated" for wild and strange heresies - bizarre beliefs by all standards so as to get the unwitting public "ginned up" against them.

Nothing new here.

Don't know why people would need to keep falling for it.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

If you believe anything without seeing the evidence, or in the face of contrary evidence, you end up believing anything at all.

Indeed that is how blind faith evolutionism has become so popular with the masses.

By contrast Thomas had "seen" Christ raise the dead numerous times - most recently in the case of Lazarus.

in Christ,

Bob

[CoAspen]

Tom and Bravus,

I think you are hearing some 'crunching'...perhaps with this topic! A lot of unnecessary protestations!

The discussion about Wyatt certainly makes me think about the need for some segments of christianity suspending reality for for their desire of 'proof'. Thomas gets a sideways look because of his desire for proof but in reality, a legitimate request. Some of the 'theories' one can read and even see mentioned on this forum site lead me to think that a large number, maybe more than will admit, of people really do want proof for their belief system even while saying they have 'faith'. I see that as normal. The problem comes about when people are willing to suspend reality and grab on to anything that comes along. Christs followers were given 'proof' on a daily basis but still had trouble believing in the end.

The continuing fighting between christians and science on the subject of evolution is a prime area where christianity gets laughed at and considered 'wackos'....by some. Sometimes it is best to just keep the mouth shut and listen. I have heard intelligent discussions between people in science on the subject, where they agree to disagree without all of the name calling.

[Tom Wetmore]

Bob, (and LifeHisCost, for that matter)

You are desperately missing the whole point. Tell us what you think is a way that we as Christians can actually reach out to and get our message across to secular minds.

Your reaction truly begs the question raised. I dare say that pretty much everything you have posted, if read by secularized people with little in the way of Christian world view, indoctrination and vocabulary would react with . They will simple say it confirms what the article says. Christians are weird.

I am afraid that our whole Adventist approach to spreading the good news, simple registers a , "Theses people are weird" reaction among those not already indoctrinated in some variant of a Christian worldview or those predisposed to latch onto conspiracy theories, etc. Our current evangelism methods in westernized culture are most successful in bringing in more of a similar mindset to our own.

And we successfully alienate and turn off those that have a different or secular perspective. These days, the stories of conversions of those without any Christian worldview seem to be so much the exception that they get significant press in our publications, because they are exceptional and not the norm. The thousands regularly baptized seldom have stories so very different from our own.

[BobRyan]

Bob, (and LifeHisCost, for that matter)

You are desperately missing the whole point.

[CoAspen]

Pointing out what is actually happening is not a 'smear campaign'! You have not addressed the point of the article. Perhaps a little less 'protesting' the obvious and more constructive ideas on how to avoid being called weird!!

[BobRyan]

Pointing out what is actually happening is not a 'smear campaign'!

The is the claim that the RCC made about the Albigensi and the Huguenot and the Waldenses as they exterminated them.

Turns out they were not entirely "balance and objective" in their smear campaign against those groups.

So also with extreme-leftist Mother Jones editor Talbot and his "Salon.com" initiative.

Many of the objective unbiased readers will notice that inconvenient detail. (As it turns out)

So I bring up in that link above - a more factual report of a "conspiracy theory" - one that hits closer to home.

in Christ,

Bob

[Bravus]

I read that article on Salon, considered posting it here and decided not to because I felt the language and approach wasn't sufficiently balanced. So on one hand I do have some sympathy for Bob's point (though not so much with the tangled web of guilt-by-association... the editor of the newspaper is a long reach to go to to try to impeach one story).

But leave aside the language: are there Christians who believe these things? You know there are - because I have seen some of them posted here.

Reporting that such beliefs exist is *not* ascribing them to all Christians, and it's not an attempt to slur all of Christianity.

Christianity has its crazy fringe, as does *every* human movement. Smart people will recognise fringe ideas as fringe ideas. Maybe less-smart people won't, and will consider that crazy ideas on the fringe reflect on the centre.

(It would be nice if some here applied the same discernment in relation to Islam, and didn't tar the entire religion with the beliefs and actions of its crazy fringe.)

The issue I've been trying to raise is whether there might be features in Christianity, as it is practiced in the early 21st century, that leave Christians more vulnerable than other members of society to crazy fringe ideas. It appears to me that there might be, but I'm interested in discussion, and willing to be persuaded.