Is it any wonder that secular people think Christians are weird!?!?

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: Stan

>>>>'Stan is a Jesuit'.

WHAT we must expose him, QUICK someone call the ....... well 'those' people......

OOh, Stan.....You know as well as I that we have exposed this man as a Jesuit and nothing ever happens...The powers that be don't believe us....or are addicted to the gifts that he provides for them.....

It's greed and the human nature, man.....

pseudo mock or "conspiracy theory or 'whatever' mode-off

Indeed, Neil - we have even lauded his "Jesuit-ness" so Stan could even receive recognition for what he is - all for naught. Sigh....

silly mode-off

Stan simply gets to remain as "Stan, our beloved brother and friend" here at CA.

Blessings,

[fccool]

I don't know about you, but I actually miss Christians trying to proselytize. IMO it certainly shows the shift, because proselytizing was a college course I took at Christian college that required us to get to the streets and attempt to share the love of God (convert) to total strangers.

I really can't blame the guy in the article, and I would actually be somewhat upset if he didn't at least mention the possibility to me, especially if he is absolutely certain that I would be burning in hell for eternity if I did not listen to him and convert.

I mean, really think about it. You can call this guy misguided, but you can't call him uncaring. Based on worldview that Christian belief holds in general, I don't know how you can believe and yet avoid proselytizing, and instead sort of go about it "Let's just be a good friends so that they want to be like us" way.

If I see a Christian that does not proselytize, there are thee major options IMO.

1) They don't care enough about other people

OR

2) They are too scared

OR

3) They don't really believe most of the dogma they receive

I tend to think that #3 is the reason why you see less and less type of proselytizing, as there's a tremendous shift away from fundamentalism and more towards religious pragmatism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism

[fccool]

PS. This is what one of the more outspoken Atheists thinks about this issue:

[CoAspen]

I will disagree with your three reasons and use your quote to explain why.

Quote:

"Let's just be a good friends so that they want to be like us" way.

My belief, and it has changed from the way I was raised, is that actions are the strongest example of a belief system. Words are cheap, and we have history past and present that have numerous examples of that. Has all of the 'discussing' back and forth about various religious or other issues on this forum been effective in changing peoples minds? A personal relationship is the best method. I don't rule out the big 'events' or 'religious' programing that is done, but still for the individual, one on one is the best way.

[phkrause]

My belief, and it has changed from the way I was raised, is that actions are the strongest example of a belief system. Words are cheap, and we have history past and present that have numerous examples of that. Has all of the 'discussing' back and forth about various religious or other issues on this forum been effective in changing peoples minds? A personal relationship is the best method. I don't rule out the big 'events' or 'religious' programing that is done, but still for the individual, one on one is the best way.

I really like your response here CoAspen.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I think we get back what we put out ... if we look for conflict we will find it. If we are promoting ourselves to be self-righteous; superior to those other people, we will be viewed, at best, as simple minded bigots labeling all Christians as weird (at best). I also believe that the same would prove true if we belong to a certain golf club or perhaps a bridge club and spent out efforts expounding how much better our clubs are compared to 'those other clubs who are probably filled with Jesuits (you know, like someone whom we know and love)

I agree with that, especially considering this promise below;

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap." Galatians 6:7 NASB

OTOH it does appear important to recognize, especially for the avowed disciple of Christ, that this world has a usurping landowner, who will do everything in his power to get us to change our allegiance to other than Whom we now give our allegiance, faulty/less though that allegiance might be. And the reason we need a Savior is because, most will admit, their allegiance isn't without fault.

"“Yes,” Jesus replied, “...and I assure you that everyone who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or property, for my sake and for the Good News, will receive now in return a hundred times as many houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life. But many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those who seem least important now will be the greatest then.”"

Mark 10:29-31 NLT Bold mine LHC

God cares!

[fccool]

Quote:

My belief, and it has changed from the way I was raised, is that actions are the strongest example of a belief system. Words are cheap, and we have history past and present that have numerous examples of that.

I think that "talk is cheap" is exactly the point here, and Penn Gilette is making it clear IMO. And here's I think where this issue falls flat on its face. Anyone can be a good friend. I have plenty of good friends who would die for me, if they had to.

Likewise, anyone can be a model human being. Look at Anthony Robbins (in spite of his resent divorce)... he is a model worthy of emulation, in terms of his diet and health, and positive philosophy, and lifetime of achievement of really helping people.

The question is what do you personally believe?

If you believe that a person who does not understand Christian message, or even worse - rejects it, is in danger of dying eternally, when they can have eternal life... I'd think it's more important than letting them know that smoking is unhealthy. Likewise, how many people really stopped smoking because they saw someone who didn't? They most likely did, because someone communicated the detrimental effects to them in either caring, or quite confrontational manner.

The point being, "Lifestyle evangelism" is really a convenience invention to accommodate modern belief of tolerance...

Or, it's indicative of people being much more rational than they were mere 100 years ago in terms of their beliefs.

Quote:

Has all of the 'discussing' back and forth about various religious or other issues on this forum been effective in changing peoples minds? A personal relationship is the best method. I don't rule out the big 'events' or 'religious' programing that is done, but still for the individual, one on one is the best way.

I really don't think that it's Christian position that you ought to change people's minds, wouldn't you agree?

Again, I think that it's a very selective understanding of Biblical narrative that conforms the modern culture of tolerance. If you read Acts or early church History, it's far from the model of communication that was utilized.

[joeb]

Bob, (and LifeHisCost, for that matter)

You are desperately missing the whole point. Tell us what you think is a way that we as Christians can actually reach out to and get our message across to secular minds.

Your reaction truly begs the question raised. I dare say that pretty much everything you have posted, if read by secularized people with little in the way of Christian world view, indoctrination and vocabulary would react with . They will simple say it confirms what the article says. Christians are weird.

Of course people who think this world is all there is, or ever will be, and don't believe in God, think Christians are weird. We believe in God. We believe in life after death. We believe in eternal life. We actually admit we believe in things by faith. We acknowledge we're just pilgrims here and looking_for/waiting for a better world. We actually believe, or at least some of us do, in the Bible and believe it's the word of God. We talk to someone we can't see and have a relationship with that person.

To them this is all as funny/weird as Elwood P. Dowd, Jimmy Stewart's character in Harvey, was to his movie world neighbors. Anyone who thinks they are going to be able to rationally explain Christianity to a secularized world is just strange as the secularized world thinks Christians are.

[Bravus]

Does that mean you give up on proselytizing? Or focus on 'sheep-stealing' those who already believe all those things from one Christian denomination to another?

I just think throwing up our hands and saying it's impossible to communicate is not a way forward.

In the end, in my view, we're all human beings together, trying to survive and thrive. We need to continue to talk.

(and dismissing others as 'weird' is the problem, not the solution)

Respect, of course, is a two-way street. The OP is much more about lack of respect than it is about 'weirdness'.

I'm always happy for someone to approach me to talk about anything. But if I clearly indicate that I do not wish to discuss that particular topic, the respectful thing to do is leave it at that. Either leave me alone or talk about something else.

I try to extend the same courtesy to others.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

Is it any wonder that secular people think Christians are weird!?!?

No. It is not.

[joeb]

Does that mean you give up on proselytizing? Or focus on 'sheep-stealing' those who already believe all those things from one Christian denomination to another?

I just think throwing up our hands and saying it's impossible to communicate is not a way forward.

In the end, in my view, we're all human beings together, trying to survive and thrive. We need to continue to talk.

(and dismissing others as 'weird' is the problem, not the solution)

Respect, of course, is a two-way street. The OP is much more about lack of respect than it is about 'weirdness'.

I'm always happy for someone to approach me to talk about anything. But if I clearly indicate that I do not wish to discuss that particular topic, the respectful thing to do is leave it at that. Either leave me alone or talk about something else.

I try to extend the same courtesy to others.

If this was a reply to or question for me, here's my answer.

No. I haven't stopped sharing God's love. I simply don't walk up to strangers and try to beat them over the head with what I believe. I build friendships, and then when asked why, or the subject turns around to issues I believe in, I share what I believe. Or, say the JW's, or Mormons, show up on my doorstep, I end up giving them Bible studies. I turn the situation around on them. I witness about what I believe to them using the doors they themselves have opened. They've left my door many a time with a far greater knowledge of the Bible than when they came. A 30 to 60 minute Bible study with them isn't uncommon at all.

Without a friendship, or at least a relationship of some type, I have no influence with anyone. I'm simply another stranger with no credibility shoving something else in their face. It's like Ellen White said, There's more religion in a loaf of bread than in many sermons. Why? Because that loaf given away is symbolic of the interest we take in those around us, and until we take an interest in someone we are nobody to them.

[Bravus]

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I build friendships, and then when asked why, or the subject turns around to issues I believe in, I share what I believe

I your post, joeb, and I would like to add that until others know you're just as interested in their welfare if they remain the same way they are, even your invited overtures won't cut any meaningful ice with them, especially in the societal norms which have learned to say the words that will get what one wants and makes them feel good.

Jesus gave his blood for all, knowing that most of mankind would

listen as long as it was expedient for their own interests. I covet that character of disinterested benevolence.

"But when the teachers of religious law who were Pharisees saw him eating with tax collectors and other sinners, they asked his disciples, “Why does he eat with such scum?”

When Jesus heard this, he told them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”"Mark 2:16-18 NLT

Hope you have a , if God knows it is best for you.

God cares!

[joeb]

Quote:

I build friendships, and then when asked why, or the subject turns around to issues I believe in, I share what I believe

I your post, joeb, and I would like to add that until others know you're just as interested in their welfare if they remain the same way they are, even your invited overtures won't cut any meaningful ice with them, especially in the societal norms which have learned to say the words that will get what one wants and makes them feel good.

Jesus gave his blood for all, knowing that most of mankind would

listen as long as it was expedient for their own interests. I covet that character of disinterested benevolence.

"But when the teachers of religious law who were Pharisees saw him eating with tax collectors and other sinners, they asked his disciples, “Why does he eat with such scum?”

When Jesus heard this, he told them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”"Mark 2:16-18 NLT

Hope you have a , if God knows it is best for you.

God cares!

My friendships with people don't depend on whether or not someone agrees with me. I have many friends who disagree with me on important spiritual issues. Who am I to judge them, as I haven't always believed the things I believe today? I've lived a very rough life. I've been very rude, crude, and obscene and spent years drunk and high at all times. I can disagree with them and tell them so, sometimes strongly, but it never has anything to do with whether or not I like them.