Pagan holidays in our church:

[cricket]

Just wondering what people here would think of a person who doesn't celebrate any holiday, birthday, "special" day, etc...because such person thinks that days aren't worth celebrating. ???

[M. T. Cross]

I would thing that it is their choice Cricket.

[JoeMo]

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I find it amazing when you have Christians that simply look and seek out the sin in everything...... they should get together with their pagan counterparts that like to moan about how Christians stole everything. Ya'll could have a merrily miserable time together.

Yup. If people on have a problem with celebrating a holiday, they shouldn't celebrate. People who like getting together with friends and family - whenever that is - party on! Personally, I like celebrations. Some of my happiest memories are from Christmas and Easter holidays. Some of my best memories also come from Sabbath and Pentecost celebrations.

For all you SDA's out there, didn't EGW say somewhere that every child's household should have a Christmas tree? Not sure; but I think I read that once in "Adventist Home" or something like that.

I never worshiped a pagan god during any of the holidays mentioned. Many times I didn't even worship the Christian God during those holidays. They were just good reasons to get together with friends and family for good food and fellowship. It's just easier to get together to celebrate generally recognized holidays than it is to celebrate - say - "Tuesday", cuz most people get time off of work during the holidays.

Let's be practical. If people think their God is looking for any excuse to punish them and suck out their joy and happiness for any and every reason (or no reason at all), maybe it's time to find a kinder and more loving deity.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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what need do we have of these worldly holidays (holy-days) ??? Is not the the harlotry and wine of such things if their be such a bad taste?

sounds like a JW mindset..

[Kevin H]

1. A big problem with this is that the Bible has a list of feasts of the land: things such as Passover, and Yom Kippur. These were the old Pagan Canaanite feasts celebrated in that piece of geography long before Abraham arrived. They were based on the agricultural cycle of that piece of land. We even find in cities who were already old ruins by Abraham's time writings that show that they were keeping those holidays. The night the Hebrews were delivered from Egypt, in Jericho, Jerusalem, and all the other cities they were having their feast of unleaven bread and lamb as they had for generations. God just removed the orgies that went along with these feasts and gave them to the Hebrews. Thus we would have to throw out the Bible for it's pagan feasts.

2. A few hundred years ago a church historian came to the conclusion that December 25 became Christmas because it was important to the Pagans, and in the fourth century after Constantine made Christianity legal that they adapted the Pagan holiday and made it the birth of Jesus.

However more discoveries have been made since then and this history, while still well known, is now out of date. We now know that December 25 was celebrated in the third century AD by Christians hiding in the catacombs who wanted nothing to do with Paganism, and that in the second century there was the feast of the Annunciation. This was first held every Passover, but then one year the church stopped keeping the Jewish calendar and started keeping the Roman Calendar. That year it fell on March 25 and stayed March 25 from then on.

You see, there was a minor Jewish holiday. The Rabbis said to expect good things at Passover. They said that it was Passover when Isaac was conceived, and that it was also on Passover that Abraham took Isaac to the mountain to sacrifice him and God stopped it and provided the substitute. Thus in the time of Jesus, Jews celebrated Isaac being conceived at Passover, and 9 months later celebrating the birth of Isaac. In the second century the Christians said that Isaac was a type of Christ, and like Isaac, Mary had the annunciation and became pregnant with Jesus on Passover. And as Isaac was born 9 months later so Jesus was born 9 months later, and as Isaac was to be sacrificed on Passover so Jesus was sacrificed on Passover and is our substitute and thus the true fulfillment of the promise that Isaac was only a type of. This is how the latest evidence points out how we got December 25.

Now some of these studies indicate that while the Pagans were excited about the winter solstice, that there is no evidence that they had anything special about December 25 until Christianity became popular under Constantine in the 4th century. And rather than taking December 25 from the pagans, we now know that it was taken from the Jews, and that maybe the Pagans may have taken it from the Christians.

3. I know that there are some similar arguments about Easter, however I have not looked at that evidence. However the way Easter was celebrated by Pagans was in the exact same description as to how David brought the Ark to the sanctuary, thus indicating that David did that on Easter Sunday. And the issues around Nebuchadnezzar's dream also appears to be linked with Easter Sunday.

[Kevin H]

HEY ALL

HALLOWEEN is still a pagan holiday no matter how it is celebrated

CHRISTMAS AND EASTER have pagan origins

THANKSGIVING IS NOT A PAGAN HOLIDAY

dgrimm60

Sorry Dgrimm60, but at least Christmas has it's origins in a minor Jewish holiday: the conception of Isaac, which was believed to have been on Passover and the birth of Isaac nine months later. The church said that Isaac was a type of Christ and thus Mary became pregnant with Jesus on Passover and was born 9 months later, corresponding with what the Jews believed was the conception and birth of Isaac.

I understand that there is something similar with Easter but have not studied into it yet.

Halloween I have problems with. But it is fun to dress up, and Mrs. White gives Christmas that I believe can be applied in principle here on how simply refusing to celebrate makes it difficult for children seeing all the celebration, and thus I like replacing it with the fall festivals, don't dress up as ghosts and goblins etc. And also celebrate Luther nailing the 95 theses and the reformation.

Also, as we approach the last weekend in October, please keep Germany and Europe in our prayers. That weekend all catechism classes visit Wittenberg. Right now Europe has very few Christians. And most of the people who do become Christians make their decision for Christ on this weekend that they visit Wittenberg and see the price that Luther and the reformers paid for our freedom of religion.

[Gregory Matthews]

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Easter, Thanksgiving , Holloween, Christmas and do I dare say birthdays. Why do we see paganism and or Catholicism in the Body? Is our Creator Christ the head of such things?

The standard year, as we calculate it today on Earth, has 365 days. Each of those days is dedicated to the birthday of a Hindu god or goddess! With this knowledge would it be accurate to say that every celebration on any day of the standard year has a pagan background?

O.K. Would it be accurate to say that every Sabbath has a pagan background simply because every Sabbath in the standard year is dedicated as the birthday of a Hindu god or goddess?

By the way, of the so-called Christian days, Easter is very close to the actual day, even if not always exact.

[OzarkWoman]

William Miller was sincerely mistaken and yet he will be in the Kingdom. God laid him to rest to protect him from being overcome by other sincerely mistaken people. And those who deceived Father Miller will have to answer for their sin!

You know this, HOW??? What you posted above is exactly why I dislike organized religion. You have no idea who will be with Christ at the end and neither does any of us. STOP making statements like that. They are judgmental and erroneous in fact since none of us know who will be and won't be with Christ. We are all going to be quite surprised in the end.

[OzarkWoman]

"Halloween" was began as a part of a CHRISTIAN (Catholic) holiday. It was All Hallow's Eve, i.e., the night before All Hallows' Day which commemorated the saints. When All Hallows' Day was changed from the summer to November 1 (I believe that was done before the year 1000), it meant that All Hallows' Eve fell on the pagan high Sabbat of Samhain.

**shrugs**

So, most pagans will still celebrate Samhain. But I don't know of any Christian who "celebrates" Halloween. In a way, to invoke fear each year of October 31 as Halloween seems sort of silly. OTOH, I still get a bit queasy when Samhain rolls around..

Oh please!!!! I know lots of Christians who make a big deal about Halloween but seem to have no trouble celebrating Christmas and Easter. They are nothing but hypocrites because of that. The fact that you say you get a bit queasy about Halloween shows you know little about it and have fallen for the hype and fear that has been instilled in you.

[Kevin H]

Oh please!!!! I know lots of Christians who make a big deal about Halloween but seem to have no trouble celebrating Christmas and Easter. They are nothing but hypocrites because of that. The fact that you say you get a bit queasy about Halloween shows you know little about it and have fallen for the hype and fear that has been instilled in you.

Please clarify your above statement, I am not catching what you are trying to say.

Also, why would they be hypocrites for celebrating Christmas. Are you one of those people who cling to tradition even when disproved? If not how would your statement fit with the updated information as to how we got Christmas? Why should someone be a hypocrite for criticizing a holiday focusing on death while celebrating a holiday that actually has it's roots in Jewish tradition and applying Isaac as a type of Christ?

But again, I am having a lot of trouble trying to understand what you were trying to say in your original post, so I may be completely misrepresenting your thoughts.

[ClubV12]

OzarkWoman asks, "You know this, HOW???" Concerning William Millers death, or "Father Miller" as the prophet calls him.

The prophet has told us the details of Father Millers death and noted that angels marked his grave and watch over it. He was especially used as a channel of light to the world, which paved the way to our understanding of the important date, October 22, 1844. When our Lord Jesus moved from the Holy Place and began His final work in the Most Holy place. All though, Father Miller remained ignorant of the exact nature of the message he preached even unto his death.

I understand some do not accept the prophet, I'm OK with that.

[Gregory Matthews]

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The fact that you say you get a bit queasy about Halloween shows you know little about it and have fallen for the hype and fear that has been instilled in you.

The fact that you would say the above clearly demonstrates that you know nothing about Rudywoofs.

[Naomi]

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The fact that you say you get a bit queasy about Halloween shows you know little about it and have fallen for the hype and fear that has been instilled in you.

The fact that you would say the above clearly demonstrates that you know nothing about Rudywoofs.

[OzarkWoman]

OzarkWoman asks, "You know this, HOW???" Concerning William Millers death, or "Father Miller" as the prophet calls him.

The prophet has told us the details of Father Millers death and noted that angels marked his grave and watch over it. He was especially used as a channel of light to the world, which paved the way to our understanding of the important date, October 22, 1844. When our Lord Jesus moved from the Holy Place and began His final work in the Most Holy place. All though, Father Miller remained ignorant of the exact nature of the message he preached even unto his death.

I understand some do not accept the prophet, I'm OK with that.

Who is the prophet?

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Oh please!!!! I know lots of Christians who make a big deal about Halloween but seem to have no trouble celebrating Christmas and Easter. They are nothing but hypocrites because of that. The fact that you say you get a bit queasy about Halloween shows you know little about it and have fallen for the hype and fear that has been instilled in you.

Please clarify your above statement, I am not catching what you are trying to say.

Also, why would they be hypocrites for celebrating Christmas. Are you one of those people who cling to tradition even when disproved? If not how would your statement fit with the updated information as to how we got Christmas? Why should someone be a hypocrite for criticizing a holiday focusing on death while celebrating a holiday that actually has it's roots in Jewish tradition and applying Isaac as a type of Christ?

But again, I am having a lot of trouble trying to understand what you were trying to say in your original post, so I may be completely misrepresenting your thoughts.

If one is going to have a hissy and teach that one should not celebrate Halloween, then one should also teach that Christmas is not Christ's birthday and is nothing but a Pagan holiday that commercialism caught and now is nothing a way to get people to part with their money. Isaac is not a Christ and never was. I can't believe some of you in here, exactly why I left the hypocritical church I was baptized in.

[Gregory Matthews]

Ozark Woman: Why get into an argument (discussion perhaps) for which there will not be a winner?

Each of you has an opinion. Neither will change their mind as a result of the discussion.

Accept this and move on.

[OzarkWoman]

Quote:

The fact that you say you get a bit queasy about Halloween shows you know little about it and have fallen for the hype and fear that has been instilled in you.

The fact that you would say the above clearly demonstrates that you know nothing about Rudywoofs.

Doesn't matter really. None of you know me either. We have to take what has been posted and deal with that.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

If one is going to have a hissy and teach that one should not celebrate Halloween, then one should also teach that Christmas is not Christ's birthday and is nothing but a Pagan holiday that commercialism caught and now is nothing a way to get people to part with their money. Isaac is not a Christ and never was. I can't believe some of you in here, exactly why I left the hypocritical church I was baptized in.

The Church is people. It sounds to me like you are as judgmental as those who may have had a part in your decision to leave that church.

[Gregory Matthews]

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Doesn't matter really. None of you know me either. We have to take what has been posted and deal with that.

Correct. Probably none of us know either you or your spiritual journey. You have not revealed that to us and you do not have to do so. Your spiritual journey is private and with you until you choose to share it.

As to Rudywoofs, she has posted here for years and shared her spiritual journey in depth and in detail.

Your comment about her clearly revealed that you are not aware of the spiritual road that Rudywoofs has walked. It revealed total ignorance of what she has clearly posted.

NOTE: Rudywoofs first posted here in July of 2005. During that time she has posted close to 8,500 posts. In addition, she has had private communications with a number of people here. But, her thousands of posts have been available for the public to read.

You appear to be totally ignorant of the spiritual journey that Rudywoofs has shared with us.

[OzarkWoman]

Quote:

Doesn't matter really. None of you know me either. We have to take what has been posted and deal with that.

Correct. Probably none of us know either you or your spiritual journey. You have not revealed that to us and you do not have to do so. Your spiritual journey is private and with you until you choose to share it.

As to Rudywoofs, she has posted here for years and shared her spiritual journey in depth and in detail.

Your comment about her clearly revealed that you are not aware of the spiritual road that Rudywoofs has walked. It revealed total ignorance of what she has clearly posted.

NOTE: Rudywoofs first posted here in July of 2005. During that time she has posted close to 8,500 posts. In addition, she has had private communications with a number of people here. But, her thousands of posts have been available for the public to read.

You appear to be totally ignorant of the spiritual journey that Rudywoofs has shared with us.

So, what is your point? You wanted to be able to use the word, ignorant, a few times? Whatever you say. BTW I have shared a lot in this forum and the fact that you are IGNORANT of it is not my fault.

[OzarkWoman]

Quote:

If one is going to have a hissy and teach that one should not celebrate Halloween, then one should also teach that Christmas is not Christ's birthday and is nothing but a Pagan holiday that commercialism caught and now is nothing a way to get people to part with their money. Isaac is not a Christ and never was. I can't believe some of you in here, exactly why I left the hypocritical church I was baptized in.

The Church is people. It sounds to me like you are as judgmental as those who may have had a part in your decision to leave that church.

My leaving that church had to do with many things, and the holiday thing was not even on the radar. I am sick and tired of you people thinking you are so much better and smarter. You aren't. You are also quite ignorant of what I went through with that church. I go to a different SDA church, when I do go to church that is.

[ClubV12]

OzarkWoman asks, "Who is the prophet?"

Ellen White, all though she never called herself a prophet. Nor did John the Baptist use that term, he called himself a "voice". Ellen White called herself much more than a prophet, she said she was a "messenger".

Hmmmm, "voice", "messenger", yes, I do see significant paralells between these two prophets, each of whom came on the scene just before the arrival of Jesus, preparing the way.

[Gregory Matthews]

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BTW I have shared a lot in this forum and the fact that you are IGNORANT of it is not my fault.

Correct. You have shared and I have read what you have shared. That sharing was your choice to do and I do not judge anyone for the choices that they make in regard to what they share in a public forum like this.

Regardless of the fact that I have read what you have shared, I still consider myself to be substantially ignorant of the totality of your spiritual journey.

There is not expectation of anyone here that you will share more than you are ready to share. I do not judge you for my perception that I am substantially ignorant of your spiritual journey. That is simply a fact and no judgment is attached to it.

But, you made a judgmental statement about Rudywoofs. Your statement reflected major ignorance of her spiritual journey. I am simply asking you to not respond to others in that manner that you believe people have responded to you.

[Textus Receptus]

Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.

Ezekiel 8:14-15

I will never chastise anyone for celebrating a holiday. It is a personal and heart issue like everything else. Yet, I feel grateful that my walk with God has personally given me the want and will not to celebrate with the world the things that are an abomination in the eyes of God.

I tried to participate in these activities and tried to rationalize them away in saying, "I'm not really celebrating the birth of Tammuz", or in Easter's case attempt to view it as true rememberance of Christ resurrection. But God is not fooled as He knows I do understand why these holidays were created and yet still had chosen to participate. I felt guilty and stopped. I feel much better about myself. My God is a jealous God. My heart knows.

[Gregory Matthews]

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. . . you people thinking you are so much better and smarter. . .

People who think this do not generally engage in dialogue. The mere fact that we (I) am engaging in dialogue with you bears witness to the falsity of your statement as it applies to me and every other person who engages you.

If our common perception of you was as you said, we would simply ignore you.