The True Gospel vs The False Gospel

[Samie]

Bro Gerry,

The reply I made to Bro Green above, applies to you as well. Repentance is necessary AFTER, not BEFORE, we are attached to Christ.

The brand of gospel popularly preached today teaches man can do something - believe, repent, be baptized - to be attached to Christ. This is the exact opposite of what the personification of the True Gospel - Jesus Christ - taught that while still separate from Him, man can do NOTHING. It is AFTER we are attached to Him that we do all those things to be counted as overcomers. The attachment to the body of Christ is God's work for man, not an iota of human participation. All grace. This is the first dimension in the three dimensions of the pure gospel.

In Christ,

Samie

[Gerr]

Bro Gerry,

The reply I made to Bro Green above, applies to you as well. Repentance is necessary AFTER, not BEFORE, we are attached to Christ.

The brand of gospel popularly preached today teaches man can do something - believe, repent, be baptized - to be attached to Christ. This is the exact opposite of what the personification of the True Gospel - Jesus Christ - taught that while still separate from Him, man can do NOTHING. It is AFTER we are attached to Him that we do all those things to be counted as overcomers. The attachment to the body of Christ is God's work for man, not an iota of human participation. All grace. This is the first dimension in the three dimensions of the pure gospel.

In Christ,

Samie

What I had been saying all along is that repentance is NOT a requirement to be attached to the body of Christ. It is needed, indispensable, of paramount importance, absolutely necessary AFTER we have been attached. Repentance which is turning away from sin, is the essence of overcoming. And only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

I see an inconsistency here.

1. You say no repentance is needed to be attached to the body of Christ, yet it is abosultely needed in order for someone not to be lost.

2. Are you saying repentance is the work of man?

3. If no human participation is needed in salvation, aren't you saying that man is saved against his will?

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Bro Gerry,

The reply I made to Bro Green above, applies to you as well. Repentance is necessary AFTER, not BEFORE, we are attached to Christ.

The brand of gospel popularly preached today teaches man can do something - believe, repent, be baptized - to be attached to Christ. This is the exact opposite of what the personification of the True Gospel - Jesus Christ - taught that while still separate from Him, man can do NOTHING. It is AFTER we are attached to Him that we do all those things to be counted as overcomers. The attachment to the body of Christ is God's work for man, not an iota of human participation. All grace. This is the first dimension in the three dimensions of the pure gospel.

In Christ,

Samie

What I had been saying all along is that repentance is NOT a requirement to be attached to the body of Christ. It is needed, indispensable, of paramount importance, absolutely necessary AFTER we have been attached. Repentance which is turning away from sin, is the essence of overcoming. And only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life.

I see an inconsistency here.

1. You say no repentance is needed to be attached to the body of Christ, yet it is abosultely needed in order for someone not to be lost.

2. Are you saying repentance is the work of man?

3. If no human participation is needed in salvation, aren't you saying that man is saved against his will?

Bro Gerry, there is no inconsistency. Here's how:

1. God attached us to the body of His Son (Eph 2:11-19); made us all spiritually alive, with all sins forgiven (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13), and thus saved us all from the penalty of sin (Rom 6:23). This is the past tense of salvation. All God's work FOR man; man cannot yet do any work.

2. After having been attached and made spiritually alive we can now do good (Eph 2:10; Titus 3:8), like believing, repenting, etc. with the main objective of becoming overcomers (Rom 12:21), because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5). An overcomer is one, who, when faced with the opportunity to commit sin, refuses to commit the same sin again, but instead does that which is good. This is repentance (Acts 26:20). Attached to Him Who is our strength (Phil 4:13), we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as God works IN us both to will and to do His good pleasure (Phil 2:12, 13). When we commit any sin, the sin committed, having been forgiven on the cross, is not imputed against us (2 Cor 5:18, 19), and we are continually justified by our Savior Who was raised for our justification (Rom 4:25). This is the present tense of salvation. God works IN man, and man responds.

3. When Christ comes again to reward every man according to what each has done (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12), the overcomers will be rewarded with life eternal; all others will be made to suffer God's wrath and finally, thrown into the lake of fire (Rom 2:5-8; Rev 21:27; Rev 20:15). This is the future tense of salvation. God will reward every man according to what each has done.

I don't see any inconsistency.

In the first dimension - the past tense of salvation - God, through Christ, saved Adam & Eve and all their descendants from sin, there is ABSOLUTELY NO human participation required, because God knows we can't do any work yet, being still dead, separate from Christ, and Christ had emphatically declared that while separate from Him we can do NOTHING (John 15:5).

But in the second dimension - the present tense of salvation, we are already spiritually alive. We can now repent, that is, we can overcome evil. We can do everything the Head wants us to do because we are His body, attached to Him Who is our Strength. And only those who lived a life in accordance with the will of God - the overcomers - shall be saved.

KJV Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

NKJV Matthew 7:21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

In Christ,

Samie

[Gerr]

If you can't see the inconsistency, you may have to look a little harder because it is very obvious to me.

I just re-read Eph 2. Where does it say we are attached to the body of Christ BEFORE repentance and conversion? Something does not compute for me with your version of the gospel.

[Samie]

If you can't see the inconsistency, you may have to look a little harder because it is very obvious to me.

I just re-read Eph 2. Where does it say we are attached to the body of Christ BEFORE repentance and conversion? Something does not compute for me with your version of the gospel.

I have explained everything via Scriptures. But I won't tire repeating the explanation.

But since you said the inconsistency is very obvious, will you care explaining how it is possible that we can do SOMETHING while still spiritually dead and separate from Christ Who said we can do NOTHING while separate from Him? I will be glad to read your explanation, on your next post.

In Christ,

Samie

[ClubV12]

Samie says, "But I won't tire repeating the explanation."

Those posting on this thread would do well to seriously consider that advice,,, like a broken record.

[Gibs]

ClubV12, that is called "pounding it in!"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Samie says, "But I won't tire repeating the explanation."

Those posting on this thread would do well to seriously consider that advice,,, like a broken record.

Looks like the true gospel is tiresome to your ears like a broken record, isn't it, brother Club?

Happy Sabbath.

[Samie]

ClubV12, that is called "pounding it in!"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

To ears itchy for truth...

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If you can't see the inconsistency, you may have to look a little harder because it is very obvious to me.

I just re-read Eph 2. Where does it say we are attached to the body of Christ BEFORE repentance and conversion? Something does not compute for me with your version of the gospel.

I have explained everything via Scriptures. But I won't tire repeating the explanation.

But since you said the inconsistency is very obvious, will you care explaining how it is possible that we can do SOMETHING while still spiritually dead and separate from Christ Who said we can do NOTHING while separate from Him? I will be glad to read your explanation, on your next post.

In Christ,

Samie

Even atheists and the out and out rebellious can make choices! That was/is God's unconditional gift to man. Of course, in the ultimate sense we can do nothing apart from Him because "in Him all things hold together!" Col 1:17. Without Him we cease to exist!

Where does repentance come from? Is it something that the sinner works up himself?

If sinners became attached to the body of Christ at the cross after which they are then able to repent, what does it mean then that one of the first messages Jesus preached was - "Repent...." BEFORE He hanged on the cross?

[Gerr]

ClubV12, that is called "pounding it in!"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You might want to keep pounding this in: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Eph 2:8,9.

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony...." Rev 12:11.

"And this is the victory that overcomes the world - our faith." 1 Jn 5:4.

[ClubV12]

...now where did I put that GIF of the guy beating on a dead horse...

[Gibs]

True, Gerry, we are saved by grace but most go overboard into the angry sea.

Paul would save one from jumping ship needlessly,

Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Ro 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

That whole chapter is excellent, all should read it several times in a year.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

I have explained everything via Scriptures. But I won't tire repeating the explanation.

But since you said the inconsistency is very obvious, will you care explaining how it is possible that we can do SOMETHING while still spiritually dead and separate from Christ Who said we can do NOTHING while separate from Him? I will be glad to read your explanation, on your next post.

In Christ,

Samie

Even atheists and the out and out rebellious can make choices! That was/is God's unconditional gift to man. Of course, in the ultimate sense we can do nothing apart from Him because "in Him all things hold together!" Col 1:17. Without Him we cease to exist!

Where does repentance come from? Is it something that the sinner works up himself?

If sinners became attached to the body of Christ at the cross after which they are then able to repent, what does it mean then that one of the first messages Jesus preached was - "Repent...." BEFORE He hanged on the cross?

[Gerr]

Where is that text again that says we are attached to the body of Christ before the sinner repents?

[Gerr]

True, Gerry, we are saved by grace but most go overboard into the angry sea.

Paul would save one from jumping ship needlessly,

Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Ro 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

[

Yes, we are to obey God and keep the law. But is that what saves you?

ESV | ýRo 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

ESV | ýRo 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— ý22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction

The righteousness of the Godman Jesus is what saves you, not some perceived personal perfection.

"since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God’s glory."

International standard version New Testament: version 1.1. (2000). (Print on Demand ed., Ro 3:23). Yorba Linda, CA: The Learning Foundation.

We will continue with our imperfect performance until Jesus comes. The good news is that we are saved by His perfection alone!

[joeb]

Forgiveness for past, present, and future sins was declared at the Cross, but like any other of God's gifts, it is NOT ours until we claim and accept it. Hostilities ceased and a peace treaty was declared in 1945 between Japan and the USA. However, many Japanese soldiers kept on fighting. A Lt. Onoda did not cease fighting in the Philippines until the early 1970's. The same thing happened after Appomatox. Many rebs kept on fighting in spite of the surrender and the general amnesty that was signed.

[Gibs]

It is an absolute certainty that we are saved by Faith. It is also an absolute certainty that faith does not give one a license to continue his sin. That is rooted out too by faith.

Faith that Christ in you, you are empowered to do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

If Christ is not our strength and stay and quickening to see and understand His Word and sort truth from error we are out on hopeless seas in a violent storm.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Note the following verse,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

It is an absolute certainty that we are saved by Faith. It is also an absolute certainty that faith does not give one a license to continue his sin. That is rooted out too by faith.

Faith that Christ in you, you are empowered to do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

If Christ is not our strength and stay and quickening to see and understand His Word and sort truth from error we are out on hopeless seas in a violent storm.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Note the following verse,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Obedience is absolutely required. Faith does not void the law. But obedience or your success in obeying the law is never THE basis of one's salvation,

"since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God’s glory."

International standard version New Testament: version 1.1. (2000). (Print on Demand ed., Ro 3:23). Yorba Linda, CA: The Learning Foundation.

KJV 1900 | ýRo 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

Tyndale House Publishers. (2007). Holy Bible: New Living Translation (3rd ed., Ro 3:20). Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

20 For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For [the real function of] the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin [not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character].

The Amplified Bible. (1987). (Ro 3:20). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

[Gibs]

As Paul has stated, the law was the schoolmaster,

Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Ga 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Ga 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Ga 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Ga 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Ga 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ga 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Ro 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The sin must be rooted out!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

That man while dead in sin has to believe & repent first before he can be attached to Christ, the False Gospel takes away the credit due to God Who attached man to His Son first so that man having been made alive can believe & repent.

The False Gospel makes people spiritual zombies: can do good deeds while yet dead in sin.

NKJV Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

[Gerr]

That man while dead in sin has to believe & repent first before he can be attached to Christ, the False Gospel takes away the credit due to God Who attached man to His Son first so that man having been made alive can believe & repent.

The False Gospel makes people spiritual zombies: can do good deeds while yet dead in sin.

NKJV Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

I'm still waiting for that text that says we are attached to Christ at the cross.

Again I ask you, faith and repentance - whose work are these?

[Gerr]

As Paul has stated, the law was the schoolmaster,

Obeying the schoolmaster, is that what saves you?

Quote:

The sin must be rooted out!

For sure!!! Is your success of rooting it out your basis for salvation?

Quote:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Who or what is "them?"

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

As Paul has stated, the law was the schoolmaster,

Obeying the schoolmaster, is that what saves you?

Quote:

The sin must be rooted out!

For sure!!! Is your success of rooting it out your basis for salvation?

Quote:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Who or what is "them?"

I will answer the last one, 1 Jo 4:4 verse, "who or what is "them". The first two are answered in the post you drew the question from.

Note that the greater one in you is greater than he that is in the world. For me that answers the question. Includes Satan, his angels and their henchmen of men.

Same as Christ overcame, Satan, his angels and the evil ones in this world.

With Christ in us, "Christ in you" all men can walk the way He desires of us, above the world and sin.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

For all our past sin, covered with His white robe of righteousness.

When truly born again we continue no longer in sinning. To do so would prove we are not born again with Christ in you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

That man while dead in sin has to believe & repent first before he can be attached to Christ, the False Gospel takes away the credit due to God Who attached man to His Son first so that man having been made alive can believe & repent.

The False Gospel makes people spiritual zombies: can do good deeds while yet dead in sin.

NKJV Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

I'm still waiting for that text that says we are attached to Christ at the cross.