New evidence_________

[LifeHiscost]

_________believe it or not. From Snope's

Quote:

PARTING OF THE RED SEA

Chariot Wheels found at the bottom of the Red Sea

You will be surprised to see proof of Pharaoh's chariot and bones of horses and men found in the Red Sea.

Confirmation of the actual Exodus route has come from divers finding coral-encrusted bones and chariot remains in the Gulf of Aqaba . ONE of the most dramatic records of Divine intervention in history is the account of the Hebrews' exodus from Egypt .

The subsequent drowning of the entire Egyptian army in the Red Sea was not an insignificant event, and confirmation of this event is compelling evidence that the Biblical narrative is truly authentic. Over the years, many divers have searched the Gulf of Suezin vain for artifacts to verify the Biblical account. But carefully following the Biblical and historical records of the Exodus brings you to Nuweiba, a large beach in the Gulf of Aqaba , as Ron Wyatt discovered in 1978. Repeated dives in depths ranging from 60 to 200 feet deep (18m to 60m), over a stretch of almost 2.5 km, has shown that the chariot parts are scattered across the

sea bed. Artifacts found include wheels, chariot bodies, as well as human and horse bones. Divers have located on the Saudi coastline opposite Nuweiba as well. Since 1987, Ron Wyatt found three four-spoke gilded chariot wheels. Coral does not grow on gold, hence the shape has remained very distinct, although the wood inside the gold veneer has disintegrated making them too fragile to move.

The hope for future expeditions is to explore the deeper waters with remote cameras or mini-subs. GILDED CHARIOT WHEEL - Mute witness to the miracle of the crossing of the Red Seaby the Hebrews 3,500 years ago. Found with a metal detector. Coral-encrusted chariot wheel, filmed off the Saudi coastline, matches chariot wheels found in Tutankhamen's tomb.

Mineralized bone, one of many found at the crossing site. This one tested by the Department of Osteology at Stockholm University , was found to be a human femur, from the right leg of a 165-170cm tall man. It is essentially 'fossilized, ' i.e., replaced by minerals and coral, hence cannot be dated by radiocarbon methods, although this specimen was obviously from antiquity. Chariot wheel and axle covered with coral and up-ended. Exodus 14:25 'And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily...' .

When Ron Wyatt first visited Nuweiba in 1978, he found a Phoenician style column lying in the water. Unfortunately the inscriptions had been eroded away, hence the column's importance was not understood until 1984 when a second granite column was found on the Saudi coastline opposite -- identical to the first, except on this one the inscription was still intact!

In Phoenician letters (Archaic Hebrew), it contained the words: Mizraim (Egypt ); Solomon; Edom ; death; Pharaoh; Moses; and Yahweh, indicating that King Solomon had set up these columns as a memorial to the miracle of the crossing of the sea. Saudi Arabia does not admit tourists, and perhaps fearing unauthorized visitors, the Saudi Authorities have since removed this column, and replaced it with a flag marker where it once stood.

How deep is the water? The Gulf of Aqabais very deep, in places over a mile (1,600m) deep. Even with the sea dried up, walking across would be difficult due to the steep grade down the sides. But there is one spot where if the water were removed, it would be an easy descent for people and animals. This is the line between Nuweiba and the opposite shore in Saudi Arabia .

Depth-sounding expeditions have revealed a smooth, gentle slope descending from Nuweiba out into the Gulf. This shows up almost like a pathway on depth-recording equipment, confirming it's Biblical description, '...a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters.' (Isaiah 43:16)

The Bible writers frequently refer to the miracle of the Red Sea crossing, for it was an event which finds no equal in history. The Hebrew prophets describe the sea at the crossing site as '.the waters of the great deep...the depths of the sea...' (Isaiah 51:10)

Knowing the exact spot to which the Bible writers were referring, what is the depth there? The distance between Nuweiba and where artifacts have been found on Saudi coast is about 18km (11 miles).

Along this line, the deepest point is about 800m (2,600 feet). No wonder that Inspired writers of the Bible described it as the mighty waters. And no wonder that not a single Egyptian survived when the water collapsed in upon them.

Photos: http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm

God cares!

[ClubV12]

Uh yeah, thats accurate Joe, I'm among the "skeptics" of Wyatts work in general. Not all of it, certainly some of it. He has made some pretty wild claims that are impossible to verify. Some rather "fantastical" and in my opinion, entirely misleading (if not outright false). In doing so, he's damaged his credibility. It happens to lots of people, nothing new there. James White, Uriah Smith have also said things that damaged their credibility to some some degree, it's sad, but true. Still, they were great men whom God used to give His people great light. I am thankful for their ministry.

Al Gore invented the internet...

Some folks inclined to be a follower of Al might totally agree with that. Others see the statement needs an "asterisk", at least. Still others just consider him a nut case! Takes all kinds.

This particular case with the Red Sea is interesting, seems plausible and since I respect the credibility of Snopes, I'll give it an "A". Nice thread LifeHiscost! :)

[phkrause]

Its really not new evidence! This is stuff that has been know for a while. I have a DVD about this from a Jewish guy that went on a quest to find the real Mt Sinai. And where exactly the Jew's crossed over the Red (Reed) Sea, etc. He also found the charriots. I can see if others have also found it to be true, that's great, but for those of us that have complete faith in the Bible, this is nothing new and eventually many other things from the Bible will be found to be true and accurate. The list is starting to pile up.

[ClubV12]

Well now this is turning into EXACTLY what I was talking about in terms of "credibility" and my problem with Wyatt in general.

LifeHiscost starts the thread with "Believe it or not". That is accurate, it should be an alert that what your about to read may not be verified or verifiable. But Ripley has conditioned us to see the phrase as a "true tale". "From Snopes", well that was the nail in the coffin for me, I TRUST Snopes. If they printed it, and I assume it's accurate, then it's most likely true.

In fact Snopes has it listed "Undetermined", under "Urban Legends", (with the text from an obviously biased website promoting Wyatts work)!

The PK comes along, mentions many others have found it, or confirmed it, and there was this Jewish guy who,,, (whose brother's postman knew a woman whose aunt heard about this guy whose neighbor once went to Africa and....).

And we wonder WHY Wyatt isn't taken seriously by some?

LifeHiscost nailed it, "Believe it,,, or not".

Never the less, probably true, I guess, I would like it to be, it is, right?

PK, I love you brother! Couldn't pass up a poke! :)

[Tom Wetmore]

Snopes??? Could you give us the link to the Snopes article?

I have searched Snopes using multiple key words and find nothing about the Red Sea crossing or Ron Wyatt. Nothing.

[ClubV12]

Heres a link...

http://www.snopes.com/religion/redsea.asp

[Gibs]

Ron Wyatt's discoveries are legit if you can receive them. He was well enough versed in scripture to find the true sites.

Here is an example of a little known verse he used,

Ga 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

[ClubV12]

So someone finds the gold that once covered the chariot wheels on the sea floor, no estimate of the depth or what kind of metal detector was used. One assumes this gold was laid out in a perfect pattern of a wheel, undisturbed by currents, eddies, fish or whatever. Perfectly aligned. OK, maybe...

To fragile to recover? Seriously, to fragile? People recover the tiniest flakes of gold, it is standard procedure. There was enough gold to set off a detector, there is enough gold to warrant recovery. This aspect of the story strains credibility to the breaking point.

I would like to believe, but don't make me throw out common sense and leave reason at the door in order to "receive" it. Come let us reason together, Wyatt fails, often, on the "reasonable" aspects of his claims.

[Tom Wetmore]

Thanks Club. (Not sure what was wrong with the multiple searches I did...) I must observe that the quoted material in the OP is not Snopes' commentary on the subject but rather what has been found circulating on the internet. So to describe it as found on Snopes is deceptive. The Snopes' dating of the story is from 2008. It remains an undetermined story according to Snopes since no evidence has been put forth to substantiate it, even after 5 years.

I am with you on this one, Club. Skepticism is in order. I looked at some of the pictures on the Wyatt website and they were not too convincing either. Let's see some significant artifact. And some reliable and documented archeological methods used in recovering and identifying it.

That said, I don't doubt the Biblical story. But to make grandiose and unsubstantiated claims like this do nothing to help our cause. It only makes people disbelieve whatever else we have to say.

[Gail]

A few years ago when someone wanted our ABC to carry Ron Wyatt's videos, I approached Dr. Larry Herr at CUC. The message I got from him then was that real archaeologists don't take him seriously.

[Tom Wetmore]

... for very good reason!

[Windsor]

The Red Sea crossing site being Nuweiba is not solely the belief of Ron Wyatt and his followers. Lennart Moller promotes it in his book "The Exodus Case". A movie that has been in production for more years than I can remember and is currently called "The Exodus Movie" (theexodusmovie.com) also promotes this theory. I can't speak for the chariot wheel evidence, but if there was a Moses (there was) and he did lead the Hebrews across the Red Sea (and he did), I would throw all my marbles in for Nuweiba.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

The message I got from him then was that real archaeologists don't take him seriously.

I believe that phrase went something like this some 2,000 years ago.

Quote:

real rabbis don't take Him seriouslyHave any of the rulers or the Pharisees believed in Him?

John 7:48 NKJV

God cares!

[ClubV12]

Jesus I believe, as for Wyatt, not so much...

But I wonder how such a comparison could even be suggested? Perhaps some are claiming Wyatt was a prophet? Or that he personally worked miracles? I have heard of some claims about angels (what kind of angels I cannot speak of the the particulars at this time), directing him to specific locations and such things. Perhaps this is why some make a connection between Jesus and Wyatt, or prophets or something?

Lots of people make and will make such claims and some really DO work what appear to be "miracles"! Some really are directed by "angels" (the particulars of which I cannot speak at this time).

Believe them... or not.

[Kevin H]

We studied this both in Israel in December-January 1983-84 and at the seminary; full of problems. It has Moses crossing from Sinai into Saudi Arabia and was a favorite of atheist who wanted to say that the whole Mt. Sinai idea was just myths from volcanos in that part of Saudi.

The place where the Bible says that they crossed has some cities and geographical mentions where we find the cities and descriptions. Wyatt has to cling to the ideas that there are other unfound locations by the same name where he wants it to split. The place where we find the evidence is at a place where the sea would split from time to time until the Suez canal was built. The last time it split was 1927 and several people died when the water came back over.

Wyatt did not like the idea of the natural and supernatural working together. He wanted a more specular location and wanted a miracle of the water not destroying biodegradable material and sediment covering and ocean currents having moved around destroying the biodegradable material.

[phkrause]

Here check this out and tell me what you think! I thought it was really good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxKQDYVEyPk

This is not the one I was looking for, but its one I have seen and have.

[ClubV12]

Just rushed through it enough to see where it was going, way to long for me.

Here's my take on what the movie is about. Explaining the plagues of Egypt with a basis in science. Iron ore and "gases" released causing the water to turn red like blood, for instance. The fish die and the frogs proliferate, etc. etc. I've heard similiar explanations for the red sea crossing, stiff winds are "known to blow" in the area and, scientifically speaking, it's possible that,,,, etc. etc.

Here's the problem. God often DOES use naturally occuring events in the creation of His miracles. This leave plenty of room for "science" to question and doubt. Sometimes it's a flat out miracle and there is NO WAY to explain it. Sun standing still, good luck with THAT science! He raised some to life, and the doubters said they were only "passed out" or what ever. So He left Lazarus in the tomb, long enough to literally "rot" to stop their excuses.

But generally speaking, man is ingenious in his ways to figure out Gods miracles through "science", falsely so called as Ellen White puts it.

I like the rainbow myself, never was one BEFORE the flood! Something BIG happened to our atmosphere, a fundamental change, you actually could work out the kind of changes that must have occured, the science involved. But make no mistake, it WAS a miracle of God. AND fascinating science! :)

[Kevin H]

Sun standing still, good luck with THAT science!

Sorry club, but there is an issue with translation and interpretation with that text. The words can be interpreted either the traditional that the sun did not appear to move; but the same words could also be interpreted as the sun was "Quiet" "Still" that day.

It was either the miracle of a very long day, or it was a miracle of the sun not shining because a sudden hail storm came and blocked out the sun.

Also an issue with this is that while the laws are subject to their creator, that the God the Ellen White presented is one who is trustworthy, a God who's law is perfect and who respects his laws. A God, who was willing to heal instantly to a culture who believed that illness was a direct punishment from sin to teach that sins are forgiven. But who would rather heal by having people cooperate with his laws of health.

There is another picture of God out there, a God who is wishy-washy, a God who is willing to keep or break his law depending on what his whim happens to be at the moment. A god who does not care about your diet and whether or not your smoke, if you call on him for healing and he is in a good mood he will instantly heal you and could not care less about your diet and health habits. A god who is willing to break his laws to show how impressive he is.

[ClubV12]

That reminds of how God uses sin to punish sin. The example Ellen White used was Davids sons. God allowed the natural consequences to take shape in their lives and as a result of their actions, and Davids poor fatherly influence, they died. Which tells me, He COULD have intervened in some way and the results would have been different.

I agree our Lord respects and works with His natural law (He created those laws after all) but He is not bound by them. Speed of light, considering the vastness of the Universe and the angelic travel time to distance, speed of light becomes very problematic. I used to wear a T-Shirt "186,000, not just a good idea, it's the law". Hmmm, maybe thats all it is after all, just a good idea.

As to the sun standing still, I'm not at all suprised somebody, somewhere, somehow has come up with a theory to explain it! I suppose they did the same for Lazarus, stinky though he was. :)

[Kevin H]

While I am not a linguist, I have read several word studies on the sun being still and I have studied the Battlefield, so I will share these with you!

[ClubV12]

You might want to include the sundial turning back along with that Kevin. I am ALWAYS interested in the science as Sister White tells us that when properly understood there is a wonderful harmony between the bible and science.

[Gerr]

As much as I would like to believe, the name Ron Wyatt seems to ring a bell about false archeological claims before. If it is true, the claim should be very easy to confirm or disprove.

[joeb]

That reminds of how God uses sin to punish sin. The example Ellen White used was Davids sons. God allowed the natural consequences to take shape in their lives and as a result of their actions, and Davids poor fatherly influence, they died. Which tells me, He COULD have intervened in some way and the results would have been different.

I agree our Lord respects and works with His natural law (He created those laws after all) but He is not bound by them. Speed of light, considering the vastness of the Universe and the angelic travel time to distance, speed of light becomes very problematic. I used to wear a T-Shirt "186,000, not just a good idea, it's the law". Hmmm, maybe thats all it is after all, just a good idea.

As to the sun standing still, I'm not at all suprised somebody, somewhere, somehow has come up with a theory to explain it! I suppose they did the same for Lazarus, stinky though he was.

I think this is a pretty negative view of God. He uses consequences, not to punish, but to teach us things we can learn in no other way. We must learn how terrible, how destructive, how powerful, sin is and there is no other way for us to learn this than to see the results of sin.

[ClubV12]

Suffering the consequences of your own sins is not Gods fault, it's YOUR fault! When you place yourself in a bad situation and then "suffer" the consequences of your actions, don't blame God for that! Can you learn from your mistakes? God hopes so, if not, you are bound to repeat them and suffer again. STILL not His fault, you chose the path. David chose the path, he paid the price. Forgiveness is separate from "consequences", consequences don't just go away in some miracle in an instant. The scars of sin will remain a lifetime and even for eternity!! Your "reward" in heaven is diminished, your ability to grow through out eternity is impacted in a negative way. Thats not Gods fault, you made the choice.

When Moses was going to see Pharoah, an angel stopped him because Moses had neglected to perform a known duty. As a result, God COULD NOT PROTECT HIM from Pharoah until the known duty was resolved. Had Moses STILL refused, Pharoah would have killed him, God could not have stopped it. Moses would have paid the ultimate "consequence" for his sin. Arron or somebody else would have to lead the Children, Moses wwould be dead, from his own "consequences" of sin.

Understanding the character of God I never see as "negative". I see how beautiful His ways are, how careful His instruction to us is. How He longs to protect us in every way. If we will let Him.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

He uses consequences, not to punish, but to teach us things we can learn in no other way.

This would apply to all those who are presently accepting of the Word, "Nevertheless, not my will but Thine be done."" Punishment is a fitting Word for those who choose to be God's enemies.

"He who is not with Me [definitely on My side] is against Me, and he who does not [definitely] gather with Me and for My side scatters." Matthew 12:30 AMP

"Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!"Matthew 18:7 NKJV

God cares!