Eye Opening! Things Rich People Do, Poor People Don't. Eye Opening!

[bonnie]

This perversion of Christianity is quite nauseating at best. It is the opposite of what the Bible does. It's stunning that so many on this forum would rejoice at this foolishness. Dave Ramsey provides some great information but I wonder if he would put out a similar list that paints the poor in a positive light? Thankfully the Bible does it for us.

Dave Ramsey doesn't make any attempt to be a spiritual advisor. Much of his focus is on reducing, avoiding, and eliminating debt. Something the poor,the middle class and anyone should find beneficial.

What I find nauseating and stunning is the idea that if you are poor the responsibility lies on those that have more as their "right" and nothing on the poor.

Many poor do not make any attempt to better their situation,refuse FREE classes that would help them,continually

making bad choices because someone else is picking up the tab.

Dave Ramsey had a excellent seminar at one time on families making less than 40,000.00 a year and with careful planning and spending how successful they could be in improving their situation.

We had many classes being offered here to help people with job search skills,improve their computer skills,nutrition classes and how and where to shop for the best and less expensive way to feed your family.When I went to sign up I found it cancelled because only one other person had also done so.

You may put those that refuse to put forth the effort to help themselves in a positive light,I don't.You cannot force someone.When it is handed to them and they refuse I start to lose sympathy for their situation.

There are many that cannot do better than they are,I don't have any quarrel with that.Many make bad choices and find themselves in a mess,needing a temporary hand up.Many more do not make an attempt because it is on someone else's tab. That is where my objection is. We see things differently.

If I depend on you to pay my medical,my food,education,housing,it is my responsibility to put forth every effort I am capable of to make the best use of someone else's generosity.

[olger]

The ironic thing, bonnie, is that you are saying you have been poor, and know what it's like to be poor.

Yet your ideology still requires you, at every turn, to worship the rich and demonise the poor.

That's not what I see the Bible do.

Two observations:

1) You are accusing Bonnie of idolatry. Effusive hyperbole at best, and false witness at worst.

2) You are saying that her experience is in conflict with her ideology. Then you proffer your own interpretation as the correct one. A good, tolerant liberal should not deal in absolutes like that.

Warm regards,

oG

[lazarus]

Dave Ramsey doesn't make any attempt to be a spiritual advisor.

? Who said he does? My comments were in response to Bravus' observation.

To celebrate the rich and denigrate the poor is a perversion.

Quote:

What I find nauseating and stunning is the idea that if you are poor the responsibility lies on those that have more as their "right" and nothing on the poor.

Nobody in this thread has made that point. You can argue against it if you like.

[bonnie]

Two observations:

1) You are accusing Bonnie of idolatry. Effusive hyperbole at best, and false witness at worst.

Thought it a little strange but not surprising.

The rich are really not my concern.Those that have obtained it by dishonest means will be called to account.

Those that have worked hard and honestly and are financially secure do not OWE me anything in a secular world.I do not have a right to what they have earned.

It is my responsibility to do the very best I can with someone else's "gift".That means I spend as wisely as I can and do my best to try to better my situation.

If I don't know how to do that I take advantage of the other "free gifts".Those willing to give of their time to educate me and help in my endeavor to do better.

I don't idolize the rich,but neither do I the poor.

Both have a responsibility. Being poor should not mean stupid and incapable of some kind of action,no matter how small.

2) You are saying that her experience is in conflict with her ideology. Then you proffer your own interpretation as the correct one. A good, tolerant liberal should not deal in absolutes like that.

There isn't any conflict. If someone refuses free food for their family because they have to put forth a little effort,I will offer it to those that sincerely are trying and willing.

I will help anyone I can. If I find someone on the street hungry I will feed them,probably would the second time. Finding them standing in the same spot without a very good reason the third time,it would be time to find out what else needed to be done except another handout.

[olger]

I know you are innocent in this, Bonnie.

[bonnie]

I know you are innocent in this, Bonnie.

For those that demonize the rich or me for this "idolatry" of the rich,or those that are nauseated by that..........

How many have done what you throw at others.First not to judge,second follow the example of the widow giving all that she had.

How many can raise their hands and say they follow what they judge others by?

Have you given all that you have? Or maybe skipped the unneeded luxuries and conveniences you can do without and given it to someone else?

[cricket]

Eradicate poverty!

Enact debt-forgiveness!

Heed Deuteronomy 15.

[bonnie]

Eradicate poverty!

Enact debt-forgiveness!

Heed Deuteronomy 15.

Secular world we live in,unless you want to force what you believe on all

[cricket]

Be the change you wish to see in the world. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Start at the very beginning. It's a very good place to start. ~ Maria Rainer

You say you want a revolution, well, you know, we all want to change the world. ~ Beatles

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. ~ Leo Tolstoy

If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. ~ Maya Angelou

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. ~ Margaret Mead

Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-changes! Turn and face the strange, changes! ~ David Bowie

I'm Gonna Make A Change, for once in my life, it's gonna feel real good, gonna make a difference, gonna make it right ~ Michael Jackson

Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change. ~ Confucius

You must take personal responsibility. You cannot change the circumstances, the seasons, or the wind, but you can change yourself. That is something you have charge of. ~ Jim Rohn

[bonnie]

Be the change you wish to see in the world. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Start at the very beginning. It's a very good place to start. ~ Maria Rainer

You say you want a revolution, well, you know, we all want to change the world. ~ Beatles

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. ~ Leo Tolstoy

If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. ~ Maya Angelou

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. ~ Margaret Mead

Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-changes! Turn and face the strange, changes! ~ David Bowie

I'm Gonna Make A Change, for once in my life, it's gonna feel real good, gonna make a difference, gonna make it right ~ Michael Jackson

Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change. ~ Confucius

You must take personal responsibility. You cannot change the circumstances, the seasons, or the wind, but you can change yourself. That is something you have charge of. ~ Jim Rohn

All very nice quotes even if from some rather questionable people.

I for one would like to see some on here take these to heart and show all how well it works.

The best one is the last quote.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

You must take personal responsibility. You cannot change the circumstances, the seasons, or the wind, but you can change yourself. That is something you have charge of. ~ Jim Rohn

Most people who feel they are self made, probably have that attitude. However this below is closer to reality.

"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me (Jesus) and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NASB Parenthesis mine LHC

Not to mention the multitudes of people who have had to rearrange their schedules to make sure yours worked out.

God cares!

[bonnie]

You must take personal responsibility. You cannot change the circumstances, the seasons, or the wind, but you can change yourself. That is something you have charge of. ~ Jim Rohn

Most people who feel they are self made, probably have that attitude. However this below is closer to reality.

[LifeHiscost]

I'm assuming that when you turn the gas jet on the cooking stove, or the electric knob for the burner hotplate, you see no benefit from the fact that someone had to be at the facilities that provide those things, for your sake. And how about the peace officers who are available when your house is burgled while you were gone and the neighbors next door reported someone suspicious, who left whatever they were doing when they received the call to come to your aid before the perpetrators got too far away. Or the soldier, sailor or Marine that gave his/her life in a foreign theater of combat so you can go to sleep at night, assured that tomorrow morning you don't have to bow down to another god other than the one many people in the world believe to be the only God in the Universe.

And what about your garbage disposal? How much has collected on your back porch before you got around to taking it to the dump, where many rearrange it to make sure it doesn't pollute your water supply. Or perhaps the personnel who sweat over the hot macadam to make sure your comfy car doesn't lose any nuts or bolts when hitting a pothole at 65 miles per hour.

And just in case you might point out that you pay for all those amenities and your responsibilities are satisfied as a result of that, tell the man or woman who would be more than happy to cook you a hot meal if you needed it, except for the fact that they have a wife and four children at home without enough food for the day while their out trying to find a job but there aren't enough to go around since the national debt is out of control to the tune of 17-21 trillion, making the money that's left able to buy only about half what it use to, to make sure those that get huge bonuses have enough to make their annual trip to the Bahamas.

We all have our responsibility for where the world is today and to live as if we are absolved of that, and it's only those "other people" who have the majority of failure, is to accept the same position as those who were responsible for the death of the Lifegiver, since it's expedient for one to die and not that the whole nation perish.

God cares!

[bonnie]

I'm assuming that when you turn the gas jet on the cooking stove, or the electric knob for the burner hotplate, you see no benefit from the fact that someone had to be at the facilities that provide those things, for your sake. And how about the peace officers who are available when your house is burgled while you were gone and the neighbors next door reported someone suspicious, who left whatever they were doing when they received the call to come to your aid before the perpetrators got too far away.

[Bravus]

There has been some comment on my use of the word 'worship'. I meant it in a secular rather than a religious sense, but I'm happy to withdraw and apologise for it. 'Eulogize' is a better and more precise term for what I meant.

If I reduce the OP to olger-speak it would be: rich good, poor bad.

As Laz has already shown, that does not line up with the Bible.

[Bravus]

The other point is that 'personal responsibility' applies to the employer as well: cutting minimum wage so working people are in poverty is no less an abdication of personal responsibility. 'The workman is worthy of his hire.'

[olger]

Charity good.

Laziness bad.

[Bravus]

I should also have said, much sooner, that I absolutely laud and applaud everything bonnie is doing to help people in her community.

I do my bits and pieces too - I'm *not* just an armchair critic - but could do more.

[LifeHiscost]

The other point is that 'personal responsibility' applies to the employer as well: cutting minimum wage so working people are in poverty is no less an abdication of personal responsibility. 'The workman is worthy of his hire.'

Some place in the SOP there is a statement that there is no dearth on this earth that makes it necessary for anyone to suffer lack anyplace in the world. As a rich American, considered in America to be below the poverty level, I know I'm part of those that could practice self denial for the sake of those who have so much less, sometimes here in the states, often in other lands.

If all would apply a reasonable amount of the discretionary wealth available at their disposal, for the sake of others, after giving to the body of Christ for the spreading of the gospel, the problem of poverty would be solved.

God cares!

[bonnie]

The other point is that 'personal responsibility' applies to the employer as well: cutting minimum wage so working people are in poverty is no less an abdication of personal responsibility. 'The workman is worthy of his hire.'

No one has said any differently.

[bonnie]

Some place in the SOP there is a statement that there is no dearth on this earth that makes it necessary for anyone to suffer lack anyplace in the world. As a rich American, considered in America to be below the poverty level, I know I'm part of those that could practice self denial for the sake of those who have so much less, sometimes here in the states, often in other lands.

If all would apply a reasonable amount of the discretionary wealth available at their disposal, for the sake of others, after giving to the body of Christ for the spreading of the gospel, the problem of poverty would be solved.

God cares!

No one has denied that.The article posted was simply showing the difference between the habits of those that have more versus those that have less. The bible says that the poor will always be with us.

In two families of equal income the difference between the two can be striking.One family is either always on the edge of going without or having taxpayer help, while the other manages to live frugally but comfortably

Their personal habits are what makes the difference.

Poor does not mean stupid to me. I don't believe that obese mother in the grocery checkout line with her obese toddlers was stupid or ignorant of the fact that box of potato chips and six packs of coke and more is why and that it is unhealthy. Nor do I think she or others that do this are to stupid to figure out that the purchase of that garbage is what takes up a lot of her EBT funds.People on a strict budget that pay for their own are far more careful. Many people paying their own are just as careless,but the money they earn by working is none of my business.

Free classes are no longer being offered in our town as they once were.What is interesting is now the same type of classes

are being offered for 25-35.00 per class.Classes are limited in size.None are being cancelled and many take advantage of that.But not the ones that ignored the free classes.They are made up of the poor that are not obtaining help and those that want to take some additional steps in their job choices.

[bonnie]

Some place in the SOP there is a statement that there is no dearth on this earth that makes it necessary for anyone to suffer lack anyplace in the world. As a rich American, considered in America to be below the poverty level, I know I'm part of those that could practice self denial for the sake of those who have so much less, sometimes here in the states, often in other lands.

If all would apply a reasonable amount of the discretionary wealth available at their disposal, for the sake of others, after giving to the body of Christ for the spreading of the gospel, the problem of poverty would be solved.

God cares!

If the above is true then it is probably best to refrain from "if that rich guy over there would practice self denial" and not judge.

You only have control of your finances,no one else's. I don't think God will give a fig when you stand before Him,explaining much could have been done about poverty if the other guy.......

Or God,you know what you said about those rich people.

It doesn't take much to figure out if I can shop with your checkbook,I am unlikely to be as careful or responsible as if it were my checkbook.

Many of you I simply cannot understand.Throw out the old "Do Not Judge" when it comes to the poor,but immediately judge the rich.How does that work?

Their money,no matter how much they have is not yours and you have no say or right to say how they spend it.

Worry about what you do with your time,talents and finances,that is all you control

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

"if that rich guy over there would practice self denial" and not judge.

I'll let the Word do the judging.

"And again I (Jesus) say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:24 NKJV parenthesis mine LHC

God cares!

[Tom Wetmore]

An interesting comment by Warren Buffet in a recent interview about his movement among billionaires to get them to commit, as he and Bill Gates have done, to give away at least half of their wealth - regarding resistence he is finding among some billionaires he said something to the effect that it seems some of them need some education on how to get by on $500 million.

Hardship and sacrifice as a matter of perception...

[cricket]

If all would apply a reasonable amount of the discretionary wealth available at their disposal, for the sake of others, after giving to the body of Christ for the spreading of the gospel, the problem of poverty would be solved.

God cares!

Some people who go to the Bahamas do just that. They apply the discretionary wealth at their disposal and give to the economy in the Bahamas. The people who live in the Bahamas and rely on tourism for their livelihood are ever grateful.