Seventh Gay Adventist

[Gus Foster]

Since the world-wide showing of the film "Seventh Gay Adventist" this Thanksgiving the Adventist Forum is lighting up my computer as well as many other comments from around the world.

www.sdanet.org

Seems like some of the many that had a gender ordination mission had the gay ordination on the dessert tray for the main serving.

You can watch the trailer on you tube and some other sources.

Adventism is getting interesting:

Women Ordination

Gay Ordination

Adventist Heath System misusing $2B of government funds--

Adventist retirement, pension funds & medical programs in debt #6B

Can anyone say 'SHAKING'

[Gibs]

Yes, Gus, the writing is on the wall, Bravo for bringing it up. The denominational churches are saying we are one and the meld together is getting more and more each day it seems.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

Here's a real good article on homosexuality that I had the pleasure of editing.

http://advindicate.com/articles/2013/11/...-adventist-film

[M. T. Cross]

Sometimes I think that if the Westboro Baptist Church started going to church on Saturday, some of you guys would join them in a split second......

[CoAspen]

[Gibs]

We need and want to know the truth as the Spirit that gave it, and that comes when we have the Spirit that gave it, the Spirit of truth, the comforter!

If not then it is only the truth as we understand it. That is no good, we MUST have His Spirit of truth!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

Sometimes I think that if the Westboro Baptist Church started going to church on Saturday, some of you guys would join them in a split second......

Pastor Phelps speaks on "Lot's wife"...

...My guess is that if SDA's are now accepting gay clergy perform gay marriage.

...They are going the other direction from Phelps.

[phkrause]

Sometimes I think that if the Westboro Baptist Church started going to church on Saturday, some of you guys would join them in a split second......

Unfortunately you make a good point!

[ClubV12]

The problem of how to address the LGBT world is not unique to Adventists, every Christian and even the Catholic church has had to figure out how to deal with it. Some have embraced it in every regard, marriage even Pastoring by actively open practicing LGBT lifestyles are accepted. Others, similiar to Adventist views, accept LGBT individuals, but draw the line at marriage, open active pursuit of a gay lifestyle and Pastoring.

And yet, we don't see a rush to join the fanatics of Westboro by the larger Christian community. Nor do we see even the slightest inclination from Adventists to do so.

In many ways, Adventists are even united with Mormons on the issues of LGBT, this is not surprising. Even nominal Christians are aware of the biblical statements regarding such a lifestyle as sin and condem it as such. And sin is what it is, even the Catholics know that, no mystery here.

Attempts to twist and reinterpret the biblical verses that deal with this sin will work for some Christians. It won't work for the bulk of Christiandom, or Seventh-day Adventists.

As Phelps notes, the record of Sodom has been left for us for a reason. Heed the warning, ignore it at the risk of National ruin. Yeah, the people of Sodom scoffed at that thought as well...

[olger]

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

Sometimes I think that if the Westboro Baptist Church started going to church on Saturday, some of you guys would join them in a split second......

Unfortunately you make a good point!

No, it is a ridiculous point, drenched in hyperbole and marinated by liberal weakness.

Satan is ever ready, and he presents plausible reasons why it would not be best to obey the Word of God just as it reads. Thus souls are fatally deceived.

[M. T. Cross]

Really Olger?

When I read this site the majority of what I see is the same twisted hatred and judgmental ignorance displayed by Phelps and his band of sick psychopaths. The only real differences being one is Baptist and one is SDA, and so far to the best of my knowledge none of those types here are out picketing.

As far as "liberal weakness"

a) there is a much bigger world beyond liberal and conservative

you have no clue as to my political worldview so to label me liberal is basically talking out of your backside

[olger]

I wasn't talking to you, sir. He's not a pagan (1 Corinthians 2:14).

Blessings!

G

[M. T. Cross]

I wasn't talking to you, sir. I don't generally expect pagans to understand spiritual realities.

Blessings!

G

You called my point ridiculous and showing liberal weakness. So while you may have been talking to PK, it was in regards to my statement. So stop the foolish denial.

As to the second part of your post above. Thank you for so clearly illustrating the truth of my original point.

[LifeHiscost]

Your post indicates the Truth of the matter of understanding. Truth rejected leads to receiving the opposite.

"But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means."1 Cor 2:14 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

[ClubV12]

"When I read this site the majority of what I see..." tends to be a more liberal acceptance of what the bible notes as a deadly sin. Open transgression of His word concerning the issues of a gay lifestyle are understood by many Christian faiths. Adventists in general are only one such group.

[M. T. Cross]

So let me get this straight..........

I'm a pagan so I am not spiritual and can't be expected to understand spiritual matters, so that means I have liberal acceptance of the Bible ( a book I really don't accept other than the myth and lore of the Jewish people ).

Here is a bit of news. Hatred and spite and bigotry are either there or they are not. It does not matter ones spiritual views, either its is evident or its not. Here it is. The responses (even the cleverly edited ones) have done nothing but prove my point.

I really don't care if you accept homosexuality as a sin or not a sin. What bothers me is that some of you lean towards that kind of hatred that leads to a destruction of free will and liberty.

[ClubV12]

Free will is the most important of all of Gods law, God will never remove it.

His laws are both natural (laws of physics) and spiritual. He will use the civil authorities to limit violation of His spiritual laws as He sees fit. Murder by free choice can only be tolerated to certain degree. God may use civil, natural or even divine "judgment" to limit this behaviour, so we don't all kill each other! He is very long suffering and merciful, but He is also a God of judgment. When your cup of iniquity has reached a certain level, judgment will be rendered.

He has a book, the bible, in it we find detailed instructions for natural, civil and moral law. One of those laws says a man must not lay with another man. This is not only a spiritual law, it is a violation of natural law, in my opinion. Judgment will follow. The aids epedemic should provide adequate evidence of this, but He will never remove every occasion to doubt. Thus, this evidence, one aspect of much evidence provided, is ignored and man/women continue to violate both spiritual and natural law as a result.

He has another book, His book of nature. So that even the non-believer can see and understand His moral and natural laws. So that none are left to wonder and plead ignorance, they must chose to be blind to the evidence. And many make that choice.

As a Christian, the bible is clear on this issue, I can do no other than follow His word. A man who lays with another man, unrepentant, having made that free will choice, will pay the ultimate price. Many in THIS life as well as the life to come.

My brother died of aids in the 1980's. He was openly gay, made no apologies for it. He made a choice, exercised his free will.

[M. T. Cross]

Free will is the most important of all of Gods law, God will never remove it.

His laws are both natural (laws of physics) and spiritual. He will use the civil authorities to limit violation of His spiritual laws as He sees fit. Murder by free choice can only be tolerated to certain degree. God may use civil, natural or even divine "judgment" to limit this behaviour, so we don't all kill each other! He is very long suffering and merciful, but He is also a God of judgment. When your cup of iniquity has reached a certain level, judgment will be rendered.

He has a book, the bible, in it we find detailed instructions for natural, civil and moral law. One of those laws says a man must not lay with another man. This is not only a spiritual law, it is a violation of natural law, in my opinion. Judgment will follow. The aids epedemic should provide adequate evidence of this, but He will never remove every occasion to doubt. Thus, this evidence, one aspect of much evidence provided, is ignored and man/women continue to violate both spiritual and natural law as a result.

He has another book, His book of nature. So that even the non-believer can see and understand His moral and natural laws. So that none are left to wonder and plead ignorance, they must chose to be blind to the evidence. And many make that choice.

As a Christian, the bible is clear on this issue, I can do no other than follow His word. A man who lays with another man, unrepentant, having made that free will choice, will pay the ultimate price. Many in THIS life as well as the life to come.

My brother died of aids in the 1980's. He was openly gay, made no apologies for it. He made a choice, exercised his free will.

So many ways to go here........ where to start?

This is the core of YOUR belief system. Thats fine, wonderful and you should by all means have every single right to believe it. You should apply it 100% to YOUR life. So at the end of the day YOU should not ever ever have sex with another man.

Great he has a book. Again, if YOU accept that book as the truth to YOU, then YOU should follow it to the letter. The problem with said book is that there are obviously many ways to interpret it, as is evidenced by the many millions of different conclusions followers of this book arrive at. I mean just go through threads here on CA and that is evident.But many people do not accept that book as being the truth, there is no evidence that it is the whole truth other than it says it is. So again it comes down to what each individual can perceive out of it. We can argue the gay thing out of the bible forever. And yes there are verses about one man laying with another. I guess it excuses lesbians then though....... Or maybe MAN refers to all of mankind then? But doesn't when it comes to womens ordination or any other subject where one needs some backing for misogyny? Its all not very clear.

The natural order....... well thats a tricky subject, and its also a building block for many hate groups as well. Now the thing about nature is it is ever changing. If a persons inclination is towards someone of the same gender as them, that would be their natural inclination. So really they are doing what comes naturally to them. There are a great many examples of animals practicing homosexuality. Seems fairly natural to me. Does it mess with the way we procreate? Yes, a person is unable to procreate with someone of the same gender, but on that note there are two issues. First being that we are not built to have sex just for procreation. It is for the most part an act of pleasure and love. Secondly looking at the world population, it does not seem to have done much to hurt our ability to procreate at all.

AIDS..... the old fall back. Oddly enough it seems to me that it also kills straight people, IV drug users, just about anyone that comes in contact with it in any manner that it can be transmitted. It seems to be a pretty equal opportunity thing. Now I know you will come back with the fact that gays are one of the highest risk groups for AIDS. And you are right about that. They are also one of the highest risk groups for drug use as well. Wonder why that might be. Could it have anything to do with the fact that many of them feel they have to hide who they are, are ridiculed and despised by ignorant bigots, and feel they do not have a place in our world because other people have to be so concerned over who someone else has in their bed with them.

But then hey, what would I know about any of it right? Being a spiritually and reality ignorant pagan.

I am sorry about your brother Club. I'm sure his loss left a hole in your life.

[ClubV12]

In the 80's and even today, it is predominately the gay community who are at substantial risk. Speaking of risk, I'll go a step further, it is predominately black males that have the highest risk.

You can chose to ignore both of Gods books, the book of nature and the bible, free will. But sufficient evidence exists to figure out the truth of the matter.

The old fall back, those who oppose a gay lifestyle are "haters". Not true, just another oft' repeated lie. Some of us have seen the end result, up close and personal.

People like you M.T., encouraged my brother in his lifestyle. Doesn't mean I hate you or gays. DOES mean I am more obligated than most to warn others of the deadly consequences of this lifestyle choice. Aids, not just a fall back, a reality check. One I'm surprised you want to sweep under the rug and belittle as if there were no consequences. Ignore these "natural" warnings at your own peril.

The gay lifestyle is "marketed" as two loving people who want to be together. Thats a lie and anyone involved in this issue enough to know, knows the real issue is "sex". Straight up, thats what drives it, thats what it's all about. The 1% is a nice "market tool", but I am not deceived by your clever marketing.

[M. T. Cross]

In the 80's and even today, it is predominately the gay community who are at substantial risk. Speaking of risk, I'll go a step further, it is predominately black males that have the highest risk.

[ClubV12]

"I don't encourage anyone in any lifestyle outside of one of a caring,responsible and respectful one."

Ah yes, the old marketing ploy. You are either willfully ignorant of the gay lifestyle or you have bought into the marketing lock, stock and barrel.

Your dismissal of the dangers of aids in this lifestyle, coupled with your fantasy that it's just two people in love, make you, like many others, exceptionally dangerous. To who? To the young men and women who will pursue this lifestyle because people like you say, "No worries, everything will be fine".

You need to specifically warn people of the danger involved in this lifestyle. To do otherwise, to continue to market it like any other "loving, caring, relationship" is disingenous. It is dangerous. The gay lifestyle is about partying and sex and aids, thats the reality your trying to avoid.

[M. T. Cross]

Has it ever occurred to you that there is a gay "lifestyle" and simply being gay?

Do you think there is any less debauchery in the hetro world?

[ClubV12]

4% of the population are men who have sex with other men. They represent 78% of those with HIV.

Thats the reality of it M.T. The danger is very real.

The debauchery in the world is off the chart, but people aren't dieing from it like they are of aids. Gods other book, the book of nature is speaking loud and clear.

[M. T. Cross]

4% of the population are men who have sex with other men. They represent 78% of those with HIV.

Thats the reality of it M.T. The danger is very real.

The debauchery in the world is off the chart, but people aren't dieing from it like they are of aids. Gods other book, the book of nature is speaking loud and clear.

I would love to see multiple references to that stat. I looked it up as well, and it seems that it really depends on where you are choosing to get your info from as to what the percentages are.

[ClubV12]

The highest percentage of new cases of HIV are among the 13 (THIRTEEN) to 24 year old age group.

How many news reports, or any reports, have you seen among THIS age group, of LGBTs', that you would say fit into this marketing ploy of "happy, responsible, loving" couples?

THIRTEEN M.T. What do you think the odds are this young age group is being "groomed" by gay men looking for sex? How many of them are told they are "loved"? Thats about how old my brother was when he entered into the party scene. He wasn't looking for some nice guy to settle down with, he was looking for sex. Just like everybody else in that demographic of young gay men, 13 to 24. With raging hormones ready to be taken advantage of.

The same group you are telling, "No worries, what could possibly go wrong". And you suggest those giving them the straight truth are "haters"? Whose is the real hater M.T.? I suggest it is those who will be an accessory to their death.

The "numbers" are sufficiently profound for any reasonable person to conclude this is an epidemic and it is very serious. There is no reason for you to be deceived, no excuse.