Colorado High School Shooting

[CoAspen]

[M. T. Cross]

I have to wonder why I open a thread expecting to see an outpouring of sympathy and love for those injured, those dead and their families and all I find is a p*ssing match.

Else where on this board there is a comment that pagans should convert.

That's right...... I would love to have this kind of spirit in my heart.

May the divine offer comfort to those that have suffered in this tragedy, may they heal and have closure. My heart goes out to all of them as will my prayers.

[Aliensanctuary]

Too many guns

Too many bullets

Too many seeking ultimate power behind a gun

Too many little tyrants with weapons choosing who lives and who dies

Too many tormented and brain-damaged souls hard-driven by demons who hate humans

Too many dead innocents, whose lives and hopes and dreams were unexpectedly snuffed out by mass murderers who would kill everyone on this world, were it in their power

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I have to wonder why I open a thread expecting to see an outpouring of sympathy and love for those injured, those dead and their families and all I find is a p*ssing match.

The majority of people reading this thread feel sympathy and love for those injured. But, yes, there are exceptions.

[Bravus]

Aliensanctuary, on page 3, finally says the word that can't be said.

Australia watches all the same movies and plays all the same computer games.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

This is super great!

I really do not understand what you see is super great.

I fail to see how you could laugh at all of it. That is beyond my comprehension.

Read and consider what M.T. said.

Yes, I know, your statement may have been sarcastic? And you think your sarcasm is appropriate?

[Gregory Matthews]

I understand that the following may be of interest to some of you.

Quote:

Many people were tweeting to the hashtag #prayforclaire.

[Gregory Matthews]

At 4:29 PM yesterday, Saturday, Claire Davis died, according to a statement released by the Littleton Adventist hospital.

[CoAspen]

A very sad day, our third HS killing. CO has had a tough time over the years with unbalanced individuals killing others for their own pain relief. A cowards game.

[LifeHiscost]

Too many guns

Too many bullets

Too many seeking ultimate power behind a gun

Too many little tyrants with weapons choosing who lives and who dies

Too many tormented and brain-damaged souls hard-driven by demons who hate humans

Too many dead innocents, whose lives and hopes and dreams were unexpectedly snuffed out by mass murderers who would kill everyone on this world, were it in their power

Can we not see the reality of this below, as a reason for that above, the great controversy?

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."Ephesians 6:12 NKJV

"Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour."1 Peter 5:8 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."John 3:17 NKJV

[LifeHiscost]

Gregory,

Your posts in this thread addressing Olger seem to belie your claims of not passing judgment on others. I think you might want to stick to the topic and not address others' inner thoughts. It does not become you to do so.

As for the shootings, I think movies may be a part, but I think one of the bigger influences is computer games. Kids learn to shoot for points and for fun, which makes trying it "for real" the next big thrill.

Blessings, Green Cochoa.

Jesus Saves! God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

We live in a violent world which unfortunately will only become more dangerous.

And the rapidity of which these incidents are occurring in every facet of the world's activities indicates very strongly, it will not go on interminably.

The days in which we live are solemn and important. The Spirit of God is gradually but surely being withdrawn from the earth. Plagues and judgments are already falling upon the despisers of the grace of God. The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching events of the greatest magnitude. The agencies of evil are combining their forces, and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.—Testimonies for the Church 9:11. {ChS 52.2}

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.....Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:5-7,32-34 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

One cannot determine the inner thoughts of another person.

I have not attempted to determine Olger's inner thoughts.

Further, regardless of what his inner thoughts may be, I do not pass judgment on them. I simply do not know what they are.

However, it is appropriate for one to point out that what one is saying verbally is inconsistent with one's actions. That is exactly what I have done. Olger's words have been inconsistent with his actions.

One of the responsibilities of a professional counselor is to point out when one's words are inconsistent with their actions. As Olger does counseling, I assume that he knows that and does so in his counseling practice.

That is an important part of counseling. Point out an inconsistency allows one to determine where they really are, consider why they are there, and bring their life into agreement with itself.

Another aspect of professional counseling is to point out that regardless of what one intended to communicate, one often communicates in a manner that differs from what one intended. I do this at times, as probably all of us do.

When it is pointed out to me that a reasonable person would have understood what I said differently from what I intended to communicate, I can only consider it, back up, apologize and attempt to communicate better next time.

In regard to a situation that has resulted in death and a community that is in sorrow and pain, Olger has communicated in a manner that I consider to be crass, and I will stop at that point. He may not have intended to do so. He may not really think like he has spoken. I do not know because I do not know him.

It is entirely up to him as to what he does at this point. But, I have major issues with the manner in which I have seen him communicate.

Yes, he and I have had some private communication on this.

But, as his posts were generally made publicly it is appropriate for me to respond publicly as I am doing to you now.

[CoAspen]

>>>As for the shootings, I think movies may be a part, but I think one of the bigger influences is computer games. Kids learn to shoot for points and for fun, which makes trying it "for real" the next big thrill.<<<

We have always had games. When I was young, Cowboys and Indians as well as playing war were a lot of fun. We also made our own wooden swords and played games like we were Knights of the Roundtable, etc.

We need to address and put more effort into mental illness, not just point to pet peeves or dislikes. Mental illness is way down the list of funding and recognition, with some religious peoples denying its existence. The brain is an organ system in the body and can/does/will get sick/diseased.

[Green Cochoa]

CoAspen,

The "cops and robbers" we played when kids did not have the memory-impacting scenes of blood and guts that the modern graphical computer games have. This is a horse of a different color. We're talking about games that are so addicting, people have died playing them for several days without sleep. The games are causing mental illness.

Prevention is the best cure.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

There is major truth in what Green just posted.

Quote:

The "cops and robbers" we played when kids did not have the memory-impacting scenes of blood and guts that the modern graphical computer games have. This is a horse of a different color.

[debbym]

IMHO (disclaimer)

the shooting happens because someone loses their self control, their restraint of angry selfish impulses.

their will becomes dominated usually by pain driven efforts to end their pain, to overcome their sense of powerlessness.

it is a form of problem solving.

unfortunately the powerless imbalanced mind reaches for ways to have power that are floating around in the subconscious mind, yes everything we know and have filled ourselves with resides there. for example movies, video games, and idolization of powerful figures.

So i am going about filling my mind with God's word, and his love and this mercy and His grace. so i can draw from what i have filled myself with when i am in deep pain, and feel overwhelmed and powerless. and grasping for an understanding of the power of God's love and wanting this to be the power in my life.... and losing my powerlessness in his glorious love.

[lazarus]

The "cops and robbers" we played when kids did not have the memory-impacting scenes of blood and guts that the modern graphical computer games have. This is a horse of a different color. We're talking about games that are so addicting, people have died playing them for several days without sleep. The games are causing mental illness.

Two others have already alluded to this; many, many other countries watch the same movies,and play the same games but do not have anything approaching the same level of gun or other kinds of violence. Why is there a reluctance to talk about that?

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. There are huge numbers of gamers in other countries. And there are likewise huge numbers of viewers of violent movies and TV programs. Box office, DVD sales and rentals tracking shows that many of the most violent movies do very well overseas. See http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70715/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii/ for sales tracking numbers for just one game of one very popular first person shooter video game franchise.

One very popular aspect of this video game genre is playing online with other gamers in live scenarios. It is not the gamer playing against the computer generated enemy. Each active character on the screen is being controlled by another gamer somewhere else in the world connected by the gaming network. Many of the players also use headsets so they can interact with other players during the game. It is very common to not hear much English being spoken. Many of the games have a small map that shows where the online players are located in the world and you can easily see that the map is well lit from all over the globe.

Yet the US far surpasses homicide rates and gun deaths of any country (other than war zones). There has to be something else driving these numbers than the easy answer of blaming the entertainment industry. I am not here to defend the entertainment industry. But that easy answer simply does not correlate with the reality we see.

[Green Cochoa]

I think you raise an interesting question. I'm presently in a country where I saw some games of this nature just today while I was in the mall. This country is somewhat different, however. Guns are not commonplace here. Most people have no access to one. It was in the news, however, a week ago, that a man had committed a triple-murder homicide of his family before killing himself--in the capital city. I believe that gun violence would be much higher if the presence of guns were higher.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Tom Wetmore]

Shhhhh… You may awake the defenders of the 2nd Amendment.

Seriously though, that is a significant point that the defenders of the 2nd Amendment are seemly unwilling to acknowledge. Guns. Real guns. In many states they can be more easily purchased by anyone ( and I do mean anyone, citizen, alien, criminal, mentally disturbed person - anyone with cash.) than it is for a citizen to register to vote (also a constitutional right), with little or no back ground check or user competency requirement.

But that is not entirely the whole problem. It has been noted that some other countries also have guns available without proportionally the same number of gun related deaths. It seems there is a deeply engrained idea in American culture that guns are problem solving tools, that they are useful in resolving conflict, settling disputes, and getting rid of things unwanted. There seems to be a complete disconnect with the reality that the laws of untended consequences for guns is that while they may offer immediate relief of a problem, their use often has long term and very permanent and irreversible and very often unintended consequences that are very often worse than the original problem.

[debbym]

I believe it is a dynamic, viewed relationally. it is from brokenness with God, a lack of love.

Anti social behavior has an etiology. The roots of profound undeveloped internalized morality has been reviewed and discussed.

the incapacity, or unwillingness to restrain oneself from doing harm, when their is a sufficient level of emotional pain.... has a generational component, and a cultivated component.

we all by nature have the capacity for doing great harm to others, it was only Jesus who endured horrible human mistreatment, and opened not His mouth, and never took revenge, and never retaliated, instead he continued to pour himself out for the very ones who were mistreating Him.

Check out Manasseh, his terrible violence was chosen and cultivated. contrast that with God's character, and it gives me hope that Manasseh found complete repentance at the end of His life.

madness and murder are the outgrowth of the selfish heart that refuses grace, unrenewed by love and mercy.

no matter how dark our environment, it is rather how dark it is within.

[CoAspen]

>>The games are causing mental illness.<<

That statement, I can find no research to back up the claim. In a person who becomes obsessed with gaming, possibly. But then, obsessions of any kind could lead to abnormal behavior. There can be many factors increasing the possibility of a mental break, but something was going on with the individual that increased the susceptibility. Certainly we can see the results of unhealthy religious obsessions down through the centuries. I do not see spiritual beliefs/religion/God as being any more of a deterrent than abstaining from retaining/music/TV/Movies/etc are. I believe a better recognition of mental health issues will do much more toward eliminating these specific types of behaviors. It is only after the fact, that these individuals, called normal before, are analyzed and then the behavioral signs are recognized as having been present. The stigma against keeping the brain healthy is still very present in the world today.

My opinion, not a mental health expert.

[debbym]

i suspect also that gaming is an escape from personal issues, which unattended, result in an unhealthy brain, and struggling mind, which results in more excessive gaming rather than the gaming causing the problems.

and then there is not really much in the gaming that would help support recovery of mental health. i believe it is an addiction process.

Addictions contribute to the perpetuation of peoples issues, they do not lift them above their problems but leave them in them to progress along with the addiction.

IMHO (disclaimer)

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

So i am going about filling my mind with God's word, and his love and this mercy and His grace. so i can draw from what i have filled myself with when i am in deep pain, and feel overwhelmed and powerless. and grasping for an understanding of the power of God's love and wanting this to be the power in my life.... and losing my powerlessness in his glorious love.

This stated above is a wonderful conclusion to reach when we are in peaceful circumstances and our logical conclusions for right and wrong are easily accessible.

In the recent past someone was on the way to a hospital some scores of miles away, under what they thought was emergency conditions. It was dark and rainy, with limited visibility on a major highway and they fell asleep at the wheel, running off the road into the ditch while traveling about 60 miles per hour. The vehicle they were driving rolled over and over as the landscape went downward at the immediate side of the road and the first thing they recognized of the trouble they were in was waking up to something resembling the inside of a clothes dryer on duty.

To make a long story short, there was no time that admitted to slow, methodical cogitation as to the best conclusions one should act on or how one should act. It was just after the vehicle came to rest and the dust had settled to some extent, when it became patently clear that the lack of fear and the immediate responses for the next step to take, was a result of the presence of the Holy Spirit Who was long ago invited into the life of the driver, to take over that which he/she knew they were totally incapable of handling without the Divine providence of the God Who is never, ever under any circumstances, any less motivated by love for the suppliant who puts their trust in the Sovereign of the universe.

"Yes, and the Lord will deliver me from every evil attack and will bring me safely into his heavenly Kingdom. All glory to God forever and ever! Amen."

2 Timothy 4:18 NLT

God saves! Jesus cares!