Can a pagan be saved? ²

[olger]

"Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and I will sing praises unto thy name."

"Cry out, "Save us, O God our Savior; gather us and deliver us from the nations, that we may give thanks to your holy name, that we may glory in your praise."

"But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel."

"At every high place they burned incense, as the heathen whom the LORD had driven out before them had done. They did wicked things that provoked the LORD to anger."

"And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel."

"Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations."

"And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?"

"Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the LORD which he had hallowed in Jerusalem."

"And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,"

"Also I said, It is not good that ye do: ought ye not to walk in the fear of our God because of the reproach of the heathen our enemies?"

"And it came to pass, that when all our enemies heard thereof, and all the heathen that were about us saw these things, they were much cast down in their own eyes: for they perceived that this work was wrought of our God."

"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?"

"You have rebuked the heathen and destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name for ever and ever."

"The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge." Selah.

"But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision."

"Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously."

"Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise."

"Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands."

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax."

"And ye shall know that I am the LORD: for ye have not walked in my statutes, neither executed my judgments, but have done after the manners of the heathen that are round about you."

"I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen."

"I have brought this upon you, because you lusted after the pagan nations and defiled yourself with their idols."

"Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about."

"And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard. Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice."

"And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard. Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice."

"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector..."

"Behind your doors and your doorposts you have put your pagan symbols. Forsaking me, you uncovered your bed,"

"I will stretch out my hand against Judah and against all who live in Jerusalem. I will cut off from this place every remnant of Baal, the names of the pagan and the idolatrous priests-- those who bow down on the roofs to worship the starry host, those who bow down and swear by the LORD and who also swear by Molech, those who turn."

"Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

"'Even now,' declares the LORD, 'return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning. Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the LORD your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and He relents from sending calamity."

There is hope. When we repent and turn to the Lord, He will return unto us.

`oG

[Gibs]

I can attest to the fact of being called out of the darkness by our God and Saviour.

Out of the darkness and the fire!

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

Amen!

He is able to deliver us from paganism, according to the text!

G

[LifeHiscost]

Amen! x31

God saves! Jesus cares!

[Gibs]

The Spirit of God the Father is continually drawing at men's hearts to bring them to Christ.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

With love in our hearts for our brothers, we all must nurture the love of His drawing in every way we can.

His salvation is the most precious thing in this world, to any and all men if they can be drawn to Him!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[LifeHiscost]

The Spirit of God the Father is continually drawing at men's hearts to bring them to Christ.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

With love in our hearts for our brothers, we all must nurture the love of His drawing in every way we can.

His salvation is the most precious thing in this world, to any and all men if they can be drawn to Him!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Love this thread. For one thing it reveals a telling characteristic of those who will rejoice with the Redeemer when He comes.

"Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells."

2 Peter 3:11-13 NASB

"Thus says the Lord:

“Heaven is My throne,

And earth is My footstool.

Where is the house that you will build Me?

And where is the place of My rest?

For all those things My hand has made,

And all those things exist,”

Says the Lord.

“But on this one will I look:

On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,

And who trembles at My word."Isaiah 66:1-3 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[olger]

"And such WERE some of you", is a precious promise.

Every false idol must be broken down, and truth put in its place.

g

[olger]

The question has been asked "Can Pagans be saved?"

The real question is, Can they be converted to Jesus. If so, then they can be saved.

Rejoice always,

`oG

[olger]

A better question is "Can a pagan be converted to Jesus Christ?"

If so, then yes, they can be saved.

Repent, and Rejoice always!

`oG

“Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord GOD, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die..." (Ezekiel 33:11).

"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. [30] In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. [31] For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead” (Acts 17:29)

[Stan]

all who are saved, are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. Even those who have never met him.

[M. T. Cross]

Why would a pagan want to convert?

That would be my first question.

[Gerr]

Because the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit will miss you very much if you don't.

[M. T. Cross]

Not really sure if you are being serious or sarcastic Gerry......

But on the serious side, our Gods would miss us if we did convert.

[phkrause]

I'd say Gerry is being very serious MT. He's one of the good guys on this forum.

[olger]

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

One Way.

One vote.

Use wisely.

`G

[Gerr]

Not really sure if you are being serious or sarcastic Gerry......

But on the serious side, our Gods would miss us if we did convert.

Very serious my friend. There would be a void in God's heart for every one of His children that won't come home.

[Kevin H]

In Cambodia there was a Buddhist dentist named Dr. Chan. One day at work he heard that the Khmer Rouge came into power. At hearing the news Dr. Chan threw down his glasses and trampled them to pieces, went home and got his family and fled to a part of the country where no one knew him and he and his family played ignorant illiterate people.

When he had a chance he was able to cross the border to Thailand and went to a refugee camp. There he and his children would attend Baptist meetings and accepted Christ.

Next he was able immigrate to the USA. There he was sponsored by a family that would take him to the Long Beach Cambodian Seventh-day Adventist church where he became a member.

One Sabbath while hearing the sermon, his eyes went wide and his face went pale and he became fidgety and he had to leave. His friend, Judith Hyder, who brought him to the church went out to see what was wrong. He said, "Nothing's wrong, I just realized that it's HIM!" Mrs. Hyder listened as Dr. Chan said "As a child I felt an impression that there was someone out there that loved me and I became friends with this being. Now I never saw him, or heard him speak or anything like that, it was just the sense that he was real and my friend. When I heard that the Khmer Rouge came into power, I felt that it was he who impressed me to remove and stomp on my glasses. I felt that I was trusting him to lead me as I fled. Today I realized that this long time friend of mine is Jesus! I never equated the two before, but today I know!!! I've known him for years, he's been my friend since childhood."

Yes, Dr. Chan became a Christian and Seventh-day Adventist, but even if word about the Khmer Rouge did not reach him in time and he was killed. He still was a friend of Jesus and would have raised in the first resurrection.

[Kevin H]

Jesus is bigger than Christianity:

The trinity are 3 aspects of the infinite God: That God is the all powerful creator and ruler of the universe. That God is our personal Friend, and that God works with our subconscious.

Salvation is only through our friendship with God. Thus we can only be saved through Jesus, who represents the friendship aspect of the infinite God.

The Holy Spirit enlightens everyone pointing them to Christ. They may not know the word that we use to talk about him, that he was living here on earth among us for a few years, nor the events he did while here that saves them, but they know him. The Holy Spirit has impressed their hearts like how the Spirit impressed Dr. Chan's heart. They may not see this friendship as clearly as Dr. Chan did, but there is something in them that has them reaching out to what ever is out there and to other people. While the phrase about accepting Jesus may not have come over their tongue, in their hearts they reached out to what the Holy Spirit has impressed on their heart and formed a friendship with what ever is out there, who we understand to be Jesus.

[M. T. Cross]

Kevin, those are beautiful stories, I sincerely mean that.

I can relate because I have experienced much the same thing, just with a different God.....

18 years as an SDA and 30 some as a Christian and all I ever felt was guilt, terror and unworthiness.

Now I am not at all saying that's all there is to Christianity, but thats all there was for me.

Gerry, fair enough, but again - how do you think the Gods I honour would feel?

[Kevin H]

Not really sure if you are being serious or sarcastic Gerry......

But on the serious side, our Gods would miss us if we did convert.

Not necessarily: The other gods are the forces of nature. YHWH is the creator, their boss.

The Gibionites stopped worshiping their pagan god, Baal the storm god and started worshiping YHWH. Other's who worshipped Baal came to punish the Gibionites for their change. Joshua and the Hebrews arrived late at night as the army was planning to attack in the day time. The army had torches while getting ready to attack, these made good targets for the Hebrews. the Army started running but since the road is steps they needed the light. The Hebrews could continue to shoot at the light and see where there obstacles were to avoid them.

As the sun started to rise on the eastern horizon, the battle field would have become equal. So Joshua called for the sun to be "Still" or "Quiet" and who shows up? No one but Baal, the storm god. Surely Baal was going to punish the Gibbionites for abandoning him for YHWEH and deliver the army of his worshipers: But no, the dark thickness of the clouds totally blocked out the sun light that day, the clouds were so thick and the storm so violent that huge hail stones formed, but instead of destroying the Gibbionites and Hebrews, it killed more of the army that was defending Baal than the Hebrews did.

Thus, Baal did not mind the Gibbionites stop worshiping him and turning to his creator, his boss.

[M. T. Cross]

Interesting point of view Kevin, and one that could be a whole discussion in itself.

You may even have a point as it relates to deity in the Arab part of the world all the way to the Mediterranean. There may well have been/ may be a hierarchy of deities as it related to that part of the world.

However there is a whole lot of paganism that is outside of that.

To call them forces of nature is also extremely simplistic and in my opinion and experience quite incorrect.

[debbym]

may i share this story?

i believe this is important to God's people today.

[olger]

Here's a good verse from Psalms.

"How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame ? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods? Know that the LORD has set apart the godly for himself; the LORD will hear when I call to Him" (Psalm 4:2).

Doug Batchelor was involved with false gods before he found the Lord. God set him free! Same with my mother-in-law.

Rejoice always,

G

[Gerr]

Gerry, fair enough, but again - how do you think the Gods I honour would feel?

Why settle for the lesser gods? YHWH is the God of gods, Lord of lords, and King of kings.

[M. T. Cross]

You guys are not very good at this converting someone thing....

First you don't ever address the questions asked directly.

You answer questions with questions. I have done this as well but the big difference is I am not trying to convince you to become pagans.

How about an open dialogue where you actually consider the other persons viewpoint and show it some due respect. I imagine it would make for a much more enlightening conversation.