GYC Vs “The One Project” – A shocking fact about our shaking church

[LifeHiscost]

RE THE TITLE

>> A shocking fact about our shaking church

SO a few people do something you do not like, and you act like it is the whole Church being shaken?

REALLY????

Not sure exactly where it has the greatest influence. However, remember the story of the boy with his finger in the hole in the dike? We (speaking of the SDA thought leaders)seem to be using scotch tape instead of gorilla tape to stem the flow.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[olger]

Olger, what is the one rule we have?

Hi Stan,

It is time for a refresher course.

Do unto others... that could be it..

Those who remember the past....no that's not it.

Wait, is it....??

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with - even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with."

I think that's it!!

I like it.

Are moderators required to demonstrate this as well?

Gail does. John317 did.

Gerry

[Johann]

Quote:

Thanks for the reminder Unity, something that makes this truth below so galling for some.

"Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

"ye that are spiritual restore such a one, and consider yourself lest you also be tempted."

whenever we become aware of the shortcomings of others, the lack of Christ's love in their conduct and relationship, the errors in doctrine, or finding them to be the source of temptation.... we are to be careful at this point that we tune our own hearts, and keep our flesh under us, lest we should also be a castaway.

i think it is when this is happening that God's spirit is moving and we need to deepen our humility and surrender and love for God and be reinforced by prayer and surrender. anyone can too easily end up voicing a lack of love and divine wisdom.

Love alone can cross all the gaps our selfish selves generate. and to love when love is not returned is one of the great tests of love. Only God can do this, and those unfallen, and those who allow That unselfish love to govern their heart and lives. we must have the divine help to shower the unloving with love, we who are unloving by nature ourselves.

doctrine al teaching cannot touch the heart of a person who is dying, it is time for a hand squeeze, warmth, compassion, a spirit of forgiveness and not blaming. and those who are afraid of the focus on love for get that we are all dying of sin, and all need this encouragement and tenderness of God. it is not rebellion to show this mercy and kindness.

some sda's seem afraid of the emphasis on love, as if it is rebellion and destruction of truth and doctrine. contrary it is the foundation of every doctrine. God is love, God is not doctrine, though they are expressions of love.

i feel badly if you love my thoughts and ideas, but do not love me. Jesus said, "you search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life, but you do not come to me."

no one seems to get this. it is the classic conflict between God and religious people who love truth but are not loving people.

Who are the winners and losers in this conflict?

[Stan]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

Olger, what is the one rule we have?

Hi Stan,

It is time for a refresher course.

Do unto others... that could be it..

Those who remember the past....no that's not it.

Wait, is it....??

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with - even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with."

I think that's it!!

I like it.

Are moderators required to demonstrate this as well?

Gail does. John317 did.

Gerry

You arn't getting it. You might want to read that again, for you.

[mel20]

Speaking of their “modified” and “adjusted” Present Truth presentation, hopefully our dearest friends in “The One Project” don't assume that we are stupid so that we all would accept your 'reinvented' ideas.

Even before your 'present truth' seminar will be started, it must be 100% guaranteed that the content, yes, the ingredients of the presentation should strongly based merely on the New Theology plus Ecumenical political agenda that should wipe out all the “Thus said the Lord” in a complete Bible-based understanding.

Please quote from The Great Controversy or Testimonies for the Church, etc. as the lesser light into the greater light, but please stop twisting any SOP quotation which only being used for your agenda.

We don't need any new invention nor new idea of the real Present Truth. Instead, let's simply back to the Primitive Godliness.

New knowledge, new technology, newer devices, new policies should always change all the time. But Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

Quote:

Tom,

Perhaps you should lighten up. Plagiarism is a man-made term, and has no recognition in the sight of God.

We live in a human society and are subject to the rules of that society. Paul writing in romans has something to say on this.

[debbym]

Quote:

debbym Jesus said, "you search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life, but you do not come to me."

no one seems to get this. it is the classic conflict between God and religious people who love truth but are not loving people.

Quote:

Johann Who are the winners and losers in this conflict?

there is more then one perspective in this scenario.

those who feel they have all the doctrines and have them correct, believe they are the winners, because they believe they are correct.

those who are loving don love and feel great loss over those who do not love, they do not feel they are winners.

those who are satisfied with intellectual achievement, having obtained the "truth" intellectually believe they are the winners.

but truth is something that reaches past the intellect and into the heart, the motivations, and inspires. The truth is the Love of God expressed to us in Jesus.

i do not see this is a win lose conflict.

the shaking is not from the presentation or the pointing out of errors. the shaking is the impact of the revelation of Jesus.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

but truth is something that reaches past the intellect and into the heart, the motivations, and inspires. The truth is the Love of God expressed to us in Jesus.

The testimony of the Alpha and Omega in regard to the punishment for making nonessential one word spoken by the mouth of God, is the fearful denunciation that they shall receive of the plagues that are written in the book; their names shall be taken out of the book of life, and from the holy city. {FE 387.1}

Jesus in His love for the aforementioned, did not refrain from turning over the money changer's tables, though He knew it would raise their ire to the point of murdering Him. Can we expect any less as we see the events of the age we live in, revealing a segment of society that takes exception to broadcasting the Word as the leaves of Autumn?

God loves! Jesus saves!

[Green Cochoa]

Green said:

Quote:

...Plagiarism is a man-made term, and has no recognition in the sight of God.

We live in a human society and are subject to the rules of that society. Paul writing in romans has something to say on this.

We are not subject to the rules of society. We are subject to the law of God. Jesus' disciples "threshed" grain on the Sabbath--contrary to the "rules" of their society. What did Jesus say about it? Did He condemn them, as the rulers did?

Again, "plagiarism" is a false concept. The real plagiarists are those who try to say no one can copy "their" wisdom, as if anyone has a right to put some of God's gifts into a box only for themselves--and claim it originated with them; as if God would give special portions of truth to only certain ones, or as if God had not been the Source of this truth at all!

"Every good gift, and every perfect gift, is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." (James)

"...all wisdom is from God." (Ellen White)

I accept what Peter says: 1) to be careful with Paul's writings, as some wrest them to their own destruction, and 2) we ought to obey God rather than man.

Did Ellen White disobey God by quoting truth from other authors' pens? Hardly. If this were wrong, God would surely have corrected her. In the Bible, Peter was one of the biggest "plagiarists" there was. Did he do wrong? Not at all. Plagiarism is not a crime in God's sight. It has never been wrong to quote truth, and to use it--for the Source is happy to have us share truth.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Johann]

there is more then one perspective in this scenario.

those who feel they have all the doctrines and have them correct, believe they are the winners, because they believe they are correct.

those who are loving don love and feel great loss over those who do not love, they do not feel they are winners.

those who are satisfied with intellectual achievement, having obtained the "truth" intellectually believe they are the winners.

but truth is something that reaches past the intellect and into the heart, the motivations, and inspires. The truth is the Love of God expressed to us in Jesus.

i do not see this is a win lose conflict.

the shaking is not from the presentation or the pointing out of errors. the shaking is the impact of the revelation of Jesus.

Great!

I do not remember the exact wording, but I learned from my reading of the Ministry of Healing that in the final judgment the "winners" are not those who are perfect in every detail but those who are moving with the Spirit in the right direction.

[Green Cochoa]

Please post the statement, Johann.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

We are subject to the law of God.

....such as, "Thou shalt not steal"?

Some people use their writing skills as their means of making a living. You're essentially saying that anyone can steal their work and pass it off as their own, thus infringing on the rights of the author, because the skills of the author were "God-given."

Taking that a step further, ludicrously, it would mean that no one should be paid for their work....because all skills are "God-given"....

I don't know of anyone who can sustain themselves and family without being paid. Working in tangibles is just as important as working in intangible services.

Would it be okay to steal bread, a car, a bicycle, gold? How about a physician's services? Attorney fees?

[Green Cochoa]

Originally Posted By: greenco

We are subject to the law of God.

....such as, "Thou shalt not steal"?

Some people use their writing skills as their means of making a living. You're essentially saying that anyone can steal their work and pass it off as their own, thus infringing on the rights of the author, because the skills of the author were "God-given."

Taking that a step further, ludicrously, it would mean that no one should be paid for their work....because all skills are "God-given"....

I don't know of anyone who can sustain themselves and family without being paid. Working in tangibles is just as important as working in intangible services.

Would it be okay to steal bread, a car, a bicycle, gold? How about a physician's services? Attorney fees?

Truth is not the same as all of the red-herring objects you wish to apply my statement to.

Got truth?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Green Cochoa]

In other words, I don't believe there is such a crime as stealing truth. It is Satan, the father of lies, who would like to obscure truth, lock it up, copyright it, or in any other way prevent people from having access to it freely. God would like for everyone to have free access to truth. He is the Source of it, and He offers it "without money and without price."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

Quote:

Again, "plagiarism" is a false concept. The real plagiarists are those who try to say no one can copy "their" wisdom, as if anyone has a right to put some of God's gifts into a box only for themselves--and claim it originated with them; as if God would give special portions of truth to only certain ones, or as if God had not been the Source of this truth at all!

The above is false. Society says that one can copy. Society says that when one publishes what one has copied, one should give credit to the one who is copied. IOW, if I publish a comment that that Green wrote, I should attribute it to Green. I should not post it as my own.

Romans (I am citing the Biblical book.) tells us in chapter 13 that we are subject to the governing authorities as they have been established by God. It goes on to say that to rebel against them will bring judgment upon those who do so. See the first three verses.

This is in direct conflict with what Green said:

Quote:

We are not subject to the rules of society.

Of course, God comes first. When there is a conflict between what God wants and what society wants, the Christian will follow God.

But, I really do not think that it is a conflict with what God wants to give a full citation for a quotation.

See Romans 13:5-7 for more on this.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

Quote:

God would like for everyone to have free access to truth. He is the Source of it, and He offers it "without money and without price."

Green, as I understand it, you translate publications from one language to another.

Do you ever accept money or anything of value from those who obtain your translations?

Do you always give then away totally free of charge and without price?

NOTE: I will be the first to say that I believe you have a right to charge people who wish to obtain a copy of your publications. After all, they are the result of many hours of hard work on your part. In my thinking you were not inspired by God who simply dictated their word by word translation to you. Rather I assume that they are the result of much study on your part with reference to what others had said as well as much learning of the second language.

I will clearly say: You are entitled to sell your translations to those who wish to purchase them. You are entitled to earn your living by the sale of your work.

If you disagree with this, let me know and tell us that you give them away free of charge to whoever requests them.

NOTE: As I recall, you once told me that you, at one time, wished that you could have been on a denominational salary for the work that you were doing. That sounds to me like you, at that time, wanted to be paid for your work, which as I have said, I believe is Biblical.

[Gregory Matthews]

Wyane Blakely, writing in the ADVENTIST REVIEW said:

Quote:

As a denomination we are very strong on prescription, possessed of a desire to set things (and people) straight. What we sometimes miss in our zeal for fixing everybody and everything is that without an intimate walk with God we have very little to share with those who are rapidly losing a thirst for biblical solutions.

* * * * * *

Lives are not changed by beating people into submission with truth. Jesus’ ministry presented a balance of love and truth; the two are inseparable.

* * * * *

Accepting Jesus Christ as our loving, personal, and intimate Savior was likely not the result of someone highlighting choice verses in the Bible that pointed out that we were living in total and complete disregard for God.

I think that there is truth in the above.

[Green Cochoa]

Do you ever accept money or anything of value from those who obtain your translations?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

incredible.

you honestly believe, don't you, that it's perfectly acceptable in God's eyes to steal the work of someone else and present it as your own work????

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K. Green, you accept donations. So, people do pay a price, but one that is what they have decided to pay.

Green said:

Quote:

If Gregory is to be believed, Peter could not win. Either he sinned in disobeying the angel, or he sinned in disobeying the authorities.

Again you have misrepresented what I said. Read my post # 685447.

Green, you have born false witness.

But, what else is new?

[Johann]

Could truth be stolen and not quite your own?

[Green Cochoa]

incredible.

you honestly believe, don't you, that it's perfectly acceptable in God's eyes to steal the work of someone else and present it as your own work????

Sure don't.

I don't believe it's right for anyone to present as their own work that which should be credited to God.

Mrs. White repeatedly credits God for her work. The words she wrote were not her own thoughts merely, nor does she ever attempt to portray them so. She tells us clearly that God has directed her thoughts and presented the truths to her mind which she writes for our benefit.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Green Cochoa]

Could truth be stolen and not quite your own?

To Whom does all truth belong? Has He not given it to us "without money and without price?"

How can you "steal" that which is "free?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Johann]

Please post the statement, Johann.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You need to read the whole book.

[Green Cochoa]

Again you have misrepresented what I said. Read my post # 685447.

Green, you have born false witness.

But, what else is new?

Gregory,

Your opinion does not the truth make. You said "But, I really do not think that it is a conflict with what God wants to give a full citation for a quotation."

It seems, based on your opinion, that Ellen White was a plagiarist. I do not agree. Some people in her day, and even for centuries, would refer to the person who had written what they quoted. None of God's prophets have consistently done so. Sometimes, when it serves their purpose, they do. When it's really not important to the truth, they don't.

Remember, truth does not come from Mrs. White, Peter, Paul, or Moses. It comes from God. Jesus frequently quoted the Old Testament passages without specifying the human agent in writing down those truths. Was He "plagiarizing?" Of course not! The truth had originated with Him! But what about Peter. He quotes many passages likewise, without attributing his quotes. Does it matter? By which Spirit did he write? Was he writing his own words merely? or writing what God inspired? If God quotes God, that's not plagiarism. What's more, God's Word is for ALL. Not just for a select elect who have the right to copy and sell God's truths.

Now, I have nothing against the printers of books getting paid for their books. I have nothing against the writers of books receiving royalties for the sale of those books. But there is nothing in the Word of God that would lead me to believe anyone can copyright truth. This leads to another point...but probably fit for a different topic...I don't believe the Adventist church has a right to say who can call themselves "adventist." After all, an adventist is a person who looks forward to Christ's coming, right? Must all such as do so be registered members of the "Seventh-day Adventist" church? Why is the word "adventist" a registered trademark--as though no one but the "powers that be" in our church and their designees can use the term without permission? Copyright? a word? a concept? a belief? a truth?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.