pegleg bates Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 This is something that has bothered me ever since I was a child. Do you really think Jesus would want you to throw your money away on fancy clothes and put on appearances? What is the point of dressing up to go to church? Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 27, 2014 Members Posted January 27, 2014 I always thought people would wear the best they had... whether it happens to be silks and cashmere, or denim and waffle stompers, it doesn't make any difference... the problem is when folks start making assumptions about what others wear. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Kountzer Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 If you were granted the opportunity to visit with one of the richest men in the world, or some corporate tech guru, or the head of state of some country you admired, you would probably wear nice clothes, a suit and tie, or whatever the case may be. Most people would dress for such an occasion. So, why not do the same when you meet the King of the universe? Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
fccool Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Kountzer, What you've said above is a cliche that few actually think about when they repeat as a justification as to why people should wear "their best" for church. 1) First and foremost, it conveys the idea that church is more than about you. It's about meeting certain requirements that have very little to do with your character as a person. 2) The most important people in my life are not President or Bill Gates. Sure, I'd dress well for them, but not for the reason of their "importance". I'd dress well to avoid looking out of place. Dress in such sense has more to do with conforming and aspiring to certain status, than it is about respect for a person I'm meeting. You can show up wearing jeans and T-shirt, and it would show no less excitement or respect on your end. Saying that our clothes dictate that is a very shallow view of human beings. If Bill Gates invited me to a grill at his house, I doubt I'd wear a suit and tie. It has nothing to do with my lack of respect, but with a setting that's culturally demands certain "mask" we wear. 3) You don't go to "meet God" in the church. It's one of the most ridiculous Catholic and Orthodox carry-overs that's still around today. In church you meet people who believe in God... a part of your extended family. Family reunions and meetings are beyond dress-code, because family understands people where they are. There are special occasions for which families dress up, but it has more to do with symbolic importance of the event in context of the culture, rather than the issue of "appropriate clothes". 4) When you are in church, I'd really like to find out who you are right now, rather than who you are pretending to be. Uniform clothes can hide our true persona quite well, and I prefer to know people. Clothes can reflect the type of person they really are, and it's much more important than formal-wear theatrics that suits and ties bring. For the most part, I actually view it as "look at me, I'm very important" type of concept, which lacks humility and being real, which should exist in any family setting. Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 28, 2014 Members Posted January 28, 2014 My point is that, unless one is good friends with someone else, knowledge of someone else's wardrobe is not there. I wear nice clothing to show respect on certain occasions. It's not to "fit in" with others who might be in the vicinity. Would you wear jeans and a t-shirt to a job interview if you had better things to wear? Appearances *do* matter. Perhaps it's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. True, God doesn't look on the outward appearance, rather He looks on the heart. But would He perhaps feel slighted if someone cared more about showing respect by dressing appropriately for the President or Queen or a job interview than for a planned meeting with Him? Humans don't have the ability to "look upon" someone else's heart. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
fccool Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Quote: for a planned meeting with Him? Can you explain in which sense do you "meet God" in church building? I never recalled meeting anyone but people there through my entirety of Christian experience. Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 28, 2014 Members Posted January 28, 2014 I was referring to "going to church" as a planned meeting with God. However, I'm not going to get into a debate of whether or not someone feels/felt that God was there, or not. That's subjective... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
fccool Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 But, if that's subjective, why should our dress expectation be absolute ? I think that when someone says something it should mean the words that they say. I'm not merely debating whether "God is there", by definition God is omnipresent. I'm question the justification for making a distinction of it as a "planned meeting" that requires special attire. Don't people meet God in private too? Why doesn't that require an attire. I simply don't follow the reasoning, that's all. I think if we call it what it is - an organizational and societal preference, it would make more sense. Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 28, 2014 Members Posted January 28, 2014 :) neither you, nor most people, are aware of what other people wear when they approach God/gods/goddesses in private... but apart from that, it's really none of my business, nor anyone else's, as to what anyone wears to church... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Administrators debbym Posted January 29, 2014 Administrators Posted January 29, 2014 clothing is communication to other people. God looks on the heart and also sees what we are communicating by what we are wearing. i think the message we convey by how we dress is part of the worship experience, just as what we convey by our words, our singing and tone and other non verbal cues is also significant. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
Moderators Gerr Posted January 29, 2014 Moderators Posted January 29, 2014 Why do I dress up for church? My 4 cents: 1. Out of respect for the most awesome Being in the universe. I wouldn't think of dressing casually for a wedding especially if I'm the best man, or going to a job interview, or meeting with a very important person. 2. The God I know expects the best of me in everything. a. The priests and the high priest never went into His presence with casual clothes. b. Sacrificial offerings were to be the best - first fruits, animals without blemish, etc. c. I am to present my body as a "living sacrifice". d. My body is a temple of His Spirit. 3. The God I know provides the very best for me. Dressing up to meet with Him in His house is just a small way of showing gratitude. 4. God set apart a special day to meet with Him, so I also save a special attire to meet with Him. Et cetera. Quote
Administrators Naomi Posted January 29, 2014 Administrators Posted January 29, 2014 Gerry, I agree with your 4 cents: Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
fccool Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 clothing is communication to other people. God looks on the heart and also sees what we are communicating by what we are wearing. i think the message we convey by how we dress is part of the worship experience, just as what we convey by our words, our singing and tone and other non verbal cues is also significant. Eh, here's my issue with all of this. Christianity is NOT about playing dress-up in church, and singing. Christianity is a mindset of loving other people. However a person decides to honor God with their dress is up to that particular person. I really doubt that this is the kind of "our best" that God really cares about. I really believe that if you donated all of your best clothes to the poor, and showed up to church wearing rugs... you would exemplify Christian and Jesus a lot more than wearing your best to church. I think God would be much more pleased too. These issues are really the case of majoring in minors. Quote
pegleg bates Posted January 29, 2014 Author Posted January 29, 2014 Yes, fcool, you nailed it! Jesus would be appalled to see Christians buying fancy clothes in his honor. That's like building a golden church, it undermines the message of humility. Quote
Administrators debbym Posted January 29, 2014 Administrators Posted January 29, 2014 Quote: Christianity is NOT about playing dress-up in church, and singing. Christianity is a mindset of loving other people. However a person decides to honor God with their dress is up to that particular person. I really doubt that this is the kind of "our best" that God really cares about. I really believe that if you donated all of your best clothes to the poor, and showed up to church wearing rugs... you would exemplify Christian and Jesus a lot more than wearing your best to church. I think God would be much more pleased too. Christianity is about relationships, with God and with others, and with ourselves and with the creation in addition. and in relationships there is communication. Dress, and speaking, singing and prayer, and sharing are all communication and are intrinsic to those relationships. love does not bring attention to itself. Our conduct in worship should not be to draw focus onto ourselves. i never felt that dressing appropriately was drawing undue attention to myself. if i wore dirty jeans and torn sweatshirt, i would draw attention to myself, also if i wore an evening gown it would also draw attention to myself. blending is good. if i am at church camp i will not wear a suit to worship services. this is a no brainer. dressing nice for church is showing respect, does not mean i need to put on pearls and lace and elaborate silks and satins. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
Administrators Naomi Posted January 29, 2014 Administrators Posted January 29, 2014 Quote: if i wore dirty jeans and torn sweatshirt, i would draw attention to myself, also if i wore an evening gown it would also draw attention to myself. blending is good That says it all!! Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
LifeHiscost Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 If you were granted the opportunity to visit with one of the richest men in the world, or some corporate tech guru, or the head of state of some country you admired, you would probably wear nice clothes, a suit and tie, or whatever the case may be. Most people would dress for such an occasion. So, why not do the same when you meet the King of the universe? When one sees no need of honoring the King of kings by their dress, it makes it obvious what they think of His creation who were made in His image. God saves! Jesus cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Quote: You don't go to "meet God" in the church. It's one of the most ridiculous Catholic and Orthodox carry-overs that's still around today. "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”"Matthew 18:20 NKJV I go to church to meet Jesus in the person of His saints because that's where He invited me on the day He has chosen. Often when listening, His Spirit speaks to me through His servants, verifying personal conclusions derived from the Word. "Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thess 4:17-18 NASB Jesus cares! God saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Woody Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Quote: I have been a member of the Adventist church for almost 20 years and in that time I have seen a marked change in the dress habits of those in the congregation. Suits and ties, and dresses with modest sleeves and hem lines, are being replaced with sport shirts, khakis, jeans, mini skirts and sleeveless ,low cut tops.. Nicely shined shoes have given way to ill-kept shoes, sneakers , flip-flops and spiked heels. The Sabbath is a holy day , sanctified by God, and our church is where we come to meet Him and worship Him in a special way on this day. Old testament priests were very careful in their dress and cleanliness when they prepared to enter the Sanctuary. What we wear in the church sanctuary shows to some degree the respect and reverence we have for the object of your worship. Adventist have been given inspired counsel as to appropriate dress in the sanctuary, and we are in error when we disregard or reject such counsel. Interesting how some feel others are suppose to be at the same level of piety as they esteem themselves to be. I keep coming here in hopes that our peoples have changed. But alas - no change. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
fccool Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Quote: Interesting how some feel others are suppose to be at the same level of piety as they esteem themselves to be. I keep coming here in hopes that our peoples have changed. But alas - no change. Reading this conversation, I'm really reminded of someone... let's see if someone can guess why Quote
pegleg bates Posted January 30, 2014 Author Posted January 30, 2014 Quote: Interesting how some feel others are suppose to be at the same level of piety as they esteem themselves to be. I keep coming here in hopes that our peoples have changed. But alas - no change. Reading this conversation, I'm really reminded of someone... let's see if someone can guess why Eva Braun? Quote
Guest arnie Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Adventists! If Sister White says you need to dress up, well, then, I guess you gotta dress up. All opposite opinions don't count. Arnie Quote
Administrators Naomi Posted January 30, 2014 Administrators Posted January 30, 2014 Adventists! If Sister White says you need to dress up, well, then, I guess you gotta dress up. All opposite opinions don't count. Arnie Somehow the flavor of your statement feels offensive and hostile. Surely I have misunderstood your meaning. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
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