How does it all end - and what brings in the 7 last plagues?

[BobRyan]

As SDAs we know that the final issue is that of Rev 14 the commandments of God and disputes over the 4th commandment.

But given the current trends with same-sex Marriage the SDA denomination would not survive to see a condition where Sunday Laws are the thing that threatens our existence as a Christian denomination.

The EU is imploding around this problem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Europe when you look at the dark-blue nations.

The U.S. is following suit with the judiciary fully set against the will of the people and able to legislate from the bench.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/09/ark-judge-strikes-down-gay-marriage-ban/

Thus a handful of judges will change this already decaying landscape pictured here for the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States

if the Christian churches in America fall on this subject as quickly as they are falling on the subject of adoption of blind-faith evolutionism - then we would soon be in a state where both the Federal Government and the Christian denominations in the U.S all embrace this level of war against the Law of God - leaving the SDA denomination in a position that it does not survive.

And that is with no Sunday law issue at all. Just letting nature take its course with the same-sex marriage subject if they choose to outlaw denominations opposed to that sin - then the SDA church would be singled out by this one alone.

=====================================

So then how does this end up being a Sabbath issue in Rev 14 as the great commandment-breaking issue when without any debate at all on the Sabbath we can have this near-death-experience for the SDA denomination over same-sex marriage?

Thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

one way it could happen - is that natural disasters become so extreme in the states and nations adopting same-sex marriage, that the world begins to wake up and consider that God himself is not happy with the way things are going.

IF the cowed-and-declining Christian denominations then begin to rise up - calling for repentance and turning from the same-sex marriage cliff-of-doom, and the nation(s) start to see this as a viable way back from the cliff... then adding a new step where reform is not only dictated on the subject of same-sex marriage but also sunday legislation - might be the way it goes down.

in Christ,

Bob

[CoAspen]

Really? Really? You are reviving gay issues again?

Quote:

.......is that natural disasters become so extreme in the states and nations adopting same-sex marriage, that the world begins to wake up and consider that God himself is not happy with the way things are going.

So your view of God is that he forces people to make changes in their lives?

So your own sins, God winks at, but is more concerned about gay issues?

Is this the view of God that you share with other people?

The bottom line of that belief system is one of fear!!! You are afraid that God is going to get you! With such a view of Christ, it is no wonder that Christianity seems to offer so little. But, wait a minute....it is a view point started by Satan so I reckon that is not what you want people to think. You were just joking about all of this...right! Just got bored and wanted to have a little fun.

Okay, joke time is over!!!

[Samie]

What brings in the 7 last plagues?

From Scriptures: there is NO 7 last plagues UNTIL AFTER the Second Coming!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

So your view of God is that he forces people to make changes in their lives?

So your own sins, God winks at, but is more concerned about gay issues?

Is this the view of God that you share with other people?

Of course, CoAspen, What's the problem.? The good news tells us that our vindictive God will continue to punish and intimidate us until we cave in and fearfully submit to Him ... NOT!

How many people did Jesus punish when He was here on earth? If He was the express image of the Father, how many people is God punishing right now?

Our God is a God of mercy - wanting that none should perish - that includes members of the GLBT community, drug addicts, prostitutes, alcoholics, Sunday keepers and pork eaters. Saving His people is FAR higher on His agenda than punishing the wicked. Always has been and always will be.

I also agree with Samie - the church (people; not the denomination)is protected during the 7 last plagues (at least the worst of them) - just like they were protected during the worst of the Egyptian plagues. I don't know if it will be via rapture (Revelation says the harvest occurs prior to the wrath of God)or just hiding "under His wing". the wicked will know when the wrath of God strikes(the church won't cuz we'll be under divine protection by that time) - it won't be natural disasters they are contending with - but SUPERNATURAL ones - like the planet breaking into pieces.

[LifeHiscost]

What brings in the 7 last plagues?

From Scriptures: there is NO 7 last plagues UNTIL AFTER the Second Coming!

Scripture that says that, please.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[thx4mercy]

....just like they were protected during the worst of the Egyptian plagues. I don't know if it will be via rapture (Revelation says the harvest occurs prior to the wrath of God)

"harvest occurs prior to the wrath of God" - when you say wrath of God, are you referring to the wrath he shows in the seven last plagues, or his wrath displayed by the final destruction of the wicked in the lake of fire?

[thx4mercy]

Scripture that says that, please.

Yea, I'll be waiting for that too!

[BobRyan]

Really? Really? You are reviving gay issues again?

The Bible did not change since the last time this subject came up - so no news there.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

What brings in the 7 last plagues?

From Scriptures: there is NO 7 last plagues UNTIL AFTER the Second Coming!

Until you read Rev 15 and 16 -- and notice how far they are from the 2nd coming event described in Rev 19.

[thx4mercy]

Saving His people is FAR higher on His agenda than punishing the wicked./quote]

God never forces people. But the Sunday law will force people to make a decision. And the seven last plagues don't force anything; probation has already closed.

And yes, God does care more about saving his people; that's why we're still here on earth in all this ugliness. But He does have His limits, like with Sodom & G.

And it's not just the practice of homosexuality. In I Cor. 6 there is a verse that lists 10 different types of sin that will keep people out of the Kingdom of God. That is just one of the ten listed.

[M. T. Cross]

one way it could happen - is that natural disasters become so extreme in the states and nations adopting same-sex marriage, that the world begins to wake up and consider that God himself is not happy with the way things are going.

IF the cowed-and-declining Christian denominations then begin to rise up - calling for repentance and turning from the same-sex marriage cliff-of-doom, and the nation(s) start to see this as a viable way back from the cliff... then adding a new step where reform is not only dictated on the subject of same-sex marriage but also sunday legislation - might be the way it goes down.

in Christ,

Bob

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_paranoia

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Religious paranoia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Religious paranoia is an irrational fear of being purposefully attacked by an outside agent(s) in or through some religious context. Some examples:

The fear that someone is going to steal your soul.

The fear that demons are tempting you.

The fear that cultists are plotting against you.

The fear that God or Satan is out to get you.

It is a condition which has been compared to extremism and intolerance.[1] It has been cited as a possible contributor to political violence.[2][3] It is often related to splitting, psychological projection, a desire to maintain a sense of purity in situations of real or perceived persecution, and rigid and unchallengeable attitudes.[4]

In an alternate form of religious paranoia of a psychiatric nature, the patient can suffer from a permanent delusion of a primarily religious nature. He could, for example, believe that he is the messenger of God who has been sent to the world to propagate some religion.[1]

"Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires."2 Peter 3:3 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

[CoAspen]

What you are seeing posted here is just a continuation of the erroneous ideas that possibly led you to feel christianity had nothing to offer you.

For that, I apologize!

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

Religious paranoia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Religious paranoia is an irrational fear of being purposefully attacked by an outside agent(s) in or through some religious context. Some examples:

The fear that someone is going to steal your soul.

The fear that demons are tempting you.

The fear that cultists are plotting against you.

The fear that God or Satan is out to get you.

It is a condition which has been compared to extremism and intolerance.[1] It has been cited as a possible contributor to political violence.[2][3] It is often related to splitting, psychological projection, a desire to maintain a sense of purity in situations of real or perceived persecution, and rigid and unchallengeable attitudes.[4]

In an alternate form of religious paranoia of a psychiatric nature, the patient can suffer from a permanent delusion of a primarily religious nature. He could, for example, believe that he is the messenger of God who has been sent to the world to propagate some religion.[1]

"Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires."2 Peter 3:3 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

You sir are so off base with that verse in response to my post.

Nothing about my post is scoffing. I actually truly believe that the post I was responding to displays true signs of mental illness and paranoia. Anyone that can go around claiming that they worship a god of love and justice and yet still think that he would do things like that....... sincerely they need to check into some professional counselling.

[M. T. Cross]

What you are seeing posted here is just a continuation of the erroneous ideas that possibly led you to feel christianity had nothing to offer you.

For that, I apologize!

Its not your fault sir. Folks like yourself give me hope that Christianity in general may not be the evil thing that it appears.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

What brings in the 7 last plagues?

From Scriptures: there is NO 7 last plagues UNTIL AFTER the Second Coming!

Scripture that says that, please.

Originally Posted By: thx4mercy

Yea, I'll be waiting for that too!

[Gregory Matthews]

Revelation 16 may be of some help on this question.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Nothing about my post is scoffing. I actually truly believe that the post I was responding to displays true signs of mental illness and paranoia.

I will disagree with that idea stated above that true signs of mental illness and paranoia are evident in the cited post.

1) The term "paranoia" has generally been replaced, as a mental illness diagnosis, by the term "Delusional Disorder."

NOTE: Yes, there still is used the term "Paranoid Personality Disorder" for an Adjustment Disorder.

2) The simple fact that a person may be delusional does not mean that the person is mentally ill. A delusional person is only mentally ill if their delusions have crossed a so-called boundary line. For further understanding of this idea, review the rational behind the MMPI.

3) One of the central constructs of Delusional Disorder is that the person has impaired psychosocial functioning. That has not been demonstrated to exist in the life of the person who posted.

4) Delusional Disorder exists in six (6) specific types and one (1) non specific type. I am going to assume that the suggestion is that it exists in the post in the Persecutory Type.

5) A central construct of Delusional Disorder, Persecutory Type, is that the person believes that the persecution is current and ongoing. That element is lacking in the belief of a person who is suggesting an "end time" event.

6) Another central construct of Delusional Disorder is that that delusion is not understandable (bizarre) within the context of the person's culture. IOW even if wrong, if the delusion is understandable within the culture, it is not a mental illness. With this in mind, mental illness is not defined in a manner that would define a major segment of a religious population as mentally ill.

7) Any competent mental health professional would agree that mental illness may be expressed in religious terms. We see it often. But, saying such does not make a person mentally ill simply because of a belief in certain end time events.

8) For the basis for my comments above, see the DIAGNOSTIC & STATISTICAL MANUAL OF MENTAL DISORDERS. I have generally referenced the DSM-IV, which is not the latest edition.

[M. T. Cross]

Greg, having watched this happen in my own family, where the diagnoses was made, its a very slippery slope and a very fine line between where it is not considered a paranoia or a persecution complex and where it is. I too have studied up on it, a great deal actually.

One could say that all S.D.A.'s could be nailed with a persecution complex, but while it is a part of your belief system, a dangerous part IMO, most people are reasonable enough to differentiate between reality and prophecy.

I bring it up in this thread because the OP often seems to display an obsession with a small number of topics and does so in a fear mongering and frightening manner. While I am not a professional therapist, like I said earlier - I have watched this in my life before and seen the resulting damage. I bring it up simply in the hope that he actually looks at his actions and if help is needed that he seek it out.

[Gregory Matthews]

Going back to the MMPI, yes, there is often a very fine line between mental illness and not.

Yes, it can be a slippery slope.

Both of the above statements are accurate.

Frankly, in my perspective, one should be extremely cautious about giving a mental health diagnosis absent a face to face evaluation. I posted as much as anything due to the fact the evaluation was make, as I understand it, by an Internet post. I think that to much is potentially lost with a mental health diagnosis that comes outside of a face to face evaluation. But, that is just my personal opinion.

My second problem was the source: Your source had four (4) listed references. None of the four were from peer-reviewed publications. None of them would be considered to have scientific validity.

In my thinking, to have validity in the area of mental illness, one should begin with the DSM, which is where I went.

For a much more current work that is not dealing with diagnosis, as such, I would recommend:

NOTE: It deals more with whether or not religion is helpful in treating mental illness and the extent to which religion may either positively or negatively affect the mental illness.

John R. Peteet, Francis G. Lu, William E. Narrow, Editors, RELIGIOUS & SPIRITUAL ISSUES IN PSYCHIATRIC DIAGNOSIS: A RESEARCH AGENDA FOR THE DSM-V. American Psychiatric Association, 2011, 277 pages.

The above book is well worth its price. But, it is not cheap, even on Amazon, which sells it.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Samie

What brings in the 7 last plagues?

From Scriptures: there is NO 7 last plagues UNTIL AFTER the Second Coming!

Scripture that says that, please.

Reveleation 14 talks about the harvest of the earth prior to the outpouring of the bowls of God's wrath afterwards in Rev. 15 and 16. (Assuming events described here occur chronologically).

The first 5 seals in Revelation (and a few of the trumpets) have to do with man's inhumanity to man and the results of his wanton destruction of the environment over hundreds of years - not God. God's wrath begins with signs in the sun, moon and stars. I don't think He's talking about predictable eclipses or meteor showers - He's talking about totally unexplainable manifestations.

Several other scriptures allude to the fact that God's people are not appointed to wrath. see, for example, Romans 5:9; 1Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9. To escape catastrophe on the order of that discussed in rev. 16, the church would have to be gone or otherwise supernaturally protected.

[M. T. Cross]

Nor was I diagnosing as I certainly have not the qualifications to do so. Just a simple observation from life experience, and yes I used a wiki link as a kind of tongue in cheek response to all the wiki links the OP used. It is of course a much more serious problem than Wiki would cover, I was using that as a kind of gentle nudge that maybe the OP should be aware that possibly he was getting a little closer or on that fine line.

It was not meant to mock, but it was not meant as a diagnosis. Just a concerned nudge.

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

the church would have to be gone or otherwise supernaturally protected.

Not having studied deep enough to place without question, where and when the 7 last plagues might fall, it is certain the righteous receive their reward at the second coming of Jesus. If they have to endure trials or tribulations of the magnitude of the 7 plagues, we have evidence of God's care whenever it will happen.

"He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.Psalm 91:1-8 KJV

God/Jesus saves!