How does it all end - and what brings in the 7 last plagues?

[phkrause]

Sooooooo, based on your thought, why do we continue to focus on the sins of others??

Who would be "we?" Don't include me in your we!! I'm just trying to see what JoeMo's thoughts are on the "antichrist."

[JoeMo]

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If we say I accept your death Lord and continue to sin!! On purpose of course. What does that tell you?? That they have excepted that Grace?? I'd say NO!!

I agree with you pk. Part of grace is the power to overcome. Overcoming is a lifelong process; I don't think there is a ceiling to how deep God can take us into sanctification. Arguably, if we are not in the process of becoming more like Christ, we are refusing to use the power He has given us to overcome.

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I'm just trying to see what JoeMo's thoughts are on the "antichrist."

My thoughts are pretty conventional. There is antichrist and Antichrist. The power of the antichrist (sin and rebellion) was in the world in apostolic times. 2 John and 3 John tell us that. Then there is THE antichrist which is satan (or at least the spirit of satan) manifested in the flesh at the end of time. Revelation tells us that.

I inferred from Bob's post that he said gay marriage would be the "tipping point" that brings on the end times. I thought that was a little extreme.

[Samie]

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the righteous are resurrected first into the first resurrection; the wicked resurrected next at that same hour:

If that is true, how do you explain the following scripture?

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And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) - Rev. 20:4-5

All dead are resurrected at the 2nd Coming so that EVERY man can receive his own reward as our Savior had said. "They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years" in verse 4 is part of the reward of the righteous. The wicked, having been rewarded with the wrath of God - the 7 last plagues - are all slain in Rev 19: 21, just before the start of the millennium, and "did not come to life until the thousand years were ended".

[phkrause]

I inferred from Bob's post that he said gay marriage would be the "tipping point" that brings on the end times. I thought that was a little extreme.

I got the impression that he said, that in his opinion it could happen, if that is all there was. Now could it? I'm not sure, but it could and than again, maybe not!

[CoAspen]

We...meaning this forum! How many years has this been a topic, round and round. We don't get any 'discussion' on gossip, for example or any other 'sin' that continues on for years!

Why the obsession with this topic? Finger pointing and looking at others to excuse our sins has been around since the garden...eh?

[JoeMo]

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Finger pointing and looking at others to excuse our sins has been around since the garden...eh?

It's been the perennial story of how the self-righteous justify their lofty self-opinions.

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10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.(Luke 18:10-11)

It continues today.

[Samie]

Fingerpointing is an evil we all need to overcome (Rom 12:21), for only OVERCOMERS will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5), and only those whose names are found in the book of life can enter heaven (Rev 21:27); all others will be thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

[JoeMo]

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For only OVERCOMERS will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5)

Ahhh... but how do we overcome?

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13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:13-14)

It is only by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that - by His empowering grace - we can overcome. It has very little to do with us. As the song says, "Jesus paid it all! All to Him I owe!"

[LifeHiscost]

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13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:13-14)

It is only by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that - by His empowering grace - we can overcome. It has very little to do with us. As the song says, "Jesus paid it all! All to Him I owe!"

God care! Jesus saves!

[Samie]

The LITTLE that we can do is NOTHING at all, but that LITTLE spells the difference between life and death.

Jesus has said that when He comes He will reward EVERY MAN according to what he has done, and "what he has done" is how and what we made use of the strength of Him Who is our Strength and to Whose Body we are attached. The CHOICE to overcome is ours; the STRENGTH to overcome is His. A person who continually REFUSES to overcome evil, will, at death, be blotted out from the book of life.

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KJV Galatians 6:

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

[8thdaypriest]

If it will be "as in the days of" Sodom, then those in covenant will be pulled off this earth BEFORE the fireballs hit.

If it will be "as in the days of" Noah, then those in covenant will be shut in with HIM, before the rain falls.

I think that folks have not really seen the difference between the trumpet warning judgments, and the final bowls of wrath. The trumpets are NOT UNIVERSAL. The bowls ARE UNIVERSAL.

The trumpets are very similar to the bowls, but are limited to only "a third".

Christ comes at the "last" or 7th trumpet. The final bowls of wrath are poured out on THAT DAY.

"Therefore shall her plagues come in ONE DAY" (Rev. 18:8)

Almost every man on the street has heard of the "7 last plagues", but few understand the warning trumpets.

If Satan (he drew a THIRD of the angels of heaven into his forces) wanted to counterfeit the last plagues, he would do something very similar, but limited in scope - so as not to kill everyone - just deceive the wicked into killing the righteous. Right?

If Satan wanted to counterfeit the Second Coming, he would cause 7 plagues first. Right?

I believe the trumpets will be used by Satan to deceive mankind into believing that he is Christ come.

The issue will THEN be WORSHIP.

Rev. 13:8 "And all who dwell on the earth will WORSHIP him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life"

JUST A MENTION:

GC page 628, Mrs White describes the plagues. She wrote, "These plagues are not universal, or the inhabitants of the earth would be wholly cut off." Now IF she actually "saw" this in vision, I believe she was looking at the trumpets, NOT the 7 bowls of wrath, because the trumpets are NOT universal, and the final bowls ARE UNIVERSAL. The trumpets do come just before the Second Coming, and the 7 bowls begin on the DAY of the Second Coming, AFTER Christ has removed His people.

THE QUESTION at the start of this thread was "What causes the plagues?"

If Christ will come "in the glory of His Father" whose glory "outshines the sun", our little puny planet could not withstand such radiant glory. The effect - if He actually appeared in this dimension, would be "consuming fire".

Only those who have been given an immortal "spiritual body" could survive.

There is a study at my website titled "Millennium" which goes into this topic in more detail.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

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For only OVERCOMERS will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5)

Ahhh... but how do we overcome?

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13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:13-14)

It is only by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that - by His empowering grace - we can overcome. It has very little to do with us. As the song says, "Jesus paid it all! All to Him I owe!"

Yes - Thank you Joe.

It is by the Spirit of Christ IN ME, that I can overcome. I just give Him permission. I don't spend any time worrying about coming persecution. The POWER will be there when I need Him. I focus on my relationship with Him - today.

[JoeMo]

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I think that folks have not really seen the difference between the trumpet warning judgments, and the final bowls of wrath. The trumpets are NOT UNIVERSAL. The bowls ARE UNIVERSAL ... Only those who have been given an immortal "spiritual body" could survive.

Amen, Rachel. I agree with you 100%. I also believe that the seals (at least the first 5) orman's inhumanity to his fellow man - nothing supernatural here; just the natural results of man's war against himself and against the environment.