The 3 all work together in this

[Gail]

I am talking of the resurrection.

Jesus said that He had power to take up His life again. But here in Romans 8:11 Paul explains the resurrection this way:

Quote:

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

All 3 persons of the Godhead seemed to be involved in the raising of Jesus.

[LifeHiscost]

I am talking of the resurrection.

Jesus said that He had power to take up His life again. But here in Romans 8:11 Paul explains the resurrection this way:

Quote:

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

All 3 persons of the Godhead seemed to be involved in the raising of Jesus.

The only place in the Scripture I'm aware of that all of the Deity weren't together was when Jesus took on Himself the penalty for man that was a fulfillment of the reason He came to this earth the first time.

"Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”"Matthew 27:45-46 NKJV

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son"John 3:16 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Dr. Waite]

I am talking of the resurrection.

Jesus said that He had power to take up His life again. But here in Romans 8:11 Paul explains the resurrection this way:

Quote:

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

All 3 persons of the Godhead seemed to be involved in the raising of Jesus.

If all three persons raised Jesus from the dead, the verse should read:

But if the Spirit of them that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, they that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by their Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Did the spirit of "GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT" raise Jesus from the dead?

John 4:24 "God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth."

Is the "God" referred to in this verse three persons? or one person who is the Father of Jesus?

If the "God" referred to in this verse is three persons, are you adding to the verse the word "them" in place of "him"?

[8thdaypriest]

RAISED FROM THE DEAD

BY HIS FATHER

Acts 3:15 “ ... and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.” (Acts 4:10)

Acts 13:30 “But God raised Him from the dead.”

Acts 17:31 “ ... because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Romans 4:24 “It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,”

Romans 6:4 “Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Romans 8:11 “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”

Romans 10:9 “ ... that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Galatians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead,”

Ephesians 1:17-20 “that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,”

Christ ascended to the right hand of His Father.

1Thessalonians 1:10 “ ... and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.”

1 Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” [see also Romans 6:9, Romans 7:4, Colossians 2:12]

Jesus did NOT raise Himself from death.

His father raised Him.

When Jesus said "I have power" - the word translated "power" is the word for authority. Who GAVE Him the authority. His Father.

There is a whole series of studies on this and related topics at my website.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Jesus did NOT raise Himself from death.

His father raised Him.

When Jesus said "I have power" - the word translated "power" is the word for authority. Who GAVE Him the authority. His Father.

Amen Rachel. Great post.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Jesus did NOT raise Himself from death.

His father raised Him.

“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."John 10:18 NKJV

The life of the Son and the Father never work apart from each other and the Holy Spirit, unlike created beings. While man was made in the image of God, when he accepted the god of this world as his master, he lost his will and ability to think righteously in concert with the Creator, except to receive Jesus as Savior when given the opportunity.

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone"John 8:28-29 KJV

These words above were Jesus' words speaking as the Son of man. When Jesus speaks in the fullness of the Godhead bodily, these Words below reflect the fulness of the Deity.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."Colossians 1:14-17 KJV

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."Rev 1:5-7 KJV

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."Colossians 2:9 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[8thdaypriest]

I do not believe our God is a Trinity of THREE co-equal, co-eternal persons. I believe that God our Father beget a Son in His exact image and likeness. He was exactly like His Father in nature. So He was divine and was worthy of worship.

There is NO COMMAND to worship the Spirit. There is NO COMMAND to pray to the Spirit, or to thank the Spirit, or to praise the Spirit. In Revelation, if you read "what the spirit saith", you realize the words of the spirit are the words of Christ. It is Christ speaking.

This issue has been debated for hundreds and hundreds of years. So we will NOT settle anything here.

There is a study in several parts on this issue at my website, if anyone is interested.

Blessings

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Bert]

I do not believe our God is a Trinity of THREE co-equal, co-eternal persons. I believe that God our Father beget a Son in His exact image and likeness. He was exactly like His Father in nature. So He was divine and was worthy of worship.

There is NO COMMAND to worship the Spirit. There is NO COMMAND to pray to the Spirit, or to thank the Spirit, or to praise the Spirit. In Revelation, if you read "what the spirit saith", you realize the words of the spirit are the words of Christ. It is Christ speaking.

This issue has been debated for hundreds and hundreds of years. So we will NOT settle anything here.

There is a study in several parts on this issue at my website, if anyone is interested.

Blessings

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

The creation account in Genesis intimates that there were more than 'one Person' of the Godhead involved in the process. Genesis 1:1 says that 'God created the heaven and the earth". Verse 2 says "...And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters". In verse 26, it says "....Let us make man in OUR image....", meaning more than one Person. In the New Testament, John 1:1-3 provides an answer as to who created the earth, and verse 14 identifies 'the Word' as one of the Creators. Jesus identifies the Persons of the Godhead in Matthew 28:19, which says: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." 1 John 5:7 says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Verse 8 also identifies the Godhead. It says, "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and these three agree in one."

Christ told the disciples that He would send 'the Comforter'...the Holy Spirit, to be with them after His ascension back to heaven (John 16:7). In verses 8, 13, 14, 15 that follow you will see that Christ refers to the Holy Spirit as a 'he', meaning a Person. Christ refers to God in heaven as His Father. God in heaven refers to Jesus as 'His Son' at the time Jesus was baptized.

These are just a few of Bible scriptures that confirm that there are 'Three Persons' in the Godhead. The reference to their being only 'one' as given in 1 John 5:7 means that that they agree together as one in unity.

[Aliensanctuary]

Without Spirit, there would have been no life on Earth, no healings, and no resurrections. Spirit is the force YHVH uses to manipulate matter and energy, from subatomic to galactic scales, and it's also the force he uses to communicate with the universe.

It makes no sense to me to think that Spirit is an intelligence with a body that can exist apart from YHVH. Because Spirit is composed of 7 parts, perhaps YHVH, too, is also composed of 7 entities.

Christ was likely one of the Messengers in the Kingdom who was chosen to be reincarnated into human form. Without Spirit, as a human he could not have spoken the words of YHVH to humanity, and neither could any healings, mind readings, storm-calmings, or resurrections have taken place at his request.

[JoeMo]

Just a couple comments - I'm not agrreeing or disagreeing with anyone...

Quote:

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,before his deeds of old;

I was formed long ages ago,at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. (Prov. 8:22-31)

I think this refers to Christ. He was born (begotten) from the Father before creation; He was there at creation. This explains why God refered to himself in the plural (Elohim) in Genesis.

It doesn't explain the Spirit as the 3rd Person. I am still not decided for sure whether the Spirit is an actual Person or the the maifest power of God. The Comforter couldn't come until Christ ascended. Is that because the "physical" Christ was here for 33 years; and He was limited by His physical body. Could it be that He couldn't send His Spirit until His physical self was in heaven? Several times in the NT, it seems that "Holy Spirit" is synonymous with "Spirit of Christ".

I don't think belief in the Trinity (3 Persons in One God) is a prerequisite for being a Christian (although belief in the Father and Son probably is). SDA's were not trinitarians at first. I don't know if EGW ever was a trinitatian. I know the bible never mentions the word trinity; and there are very few places in scripture that mention Father, Son and Spirit in the same breath.

[8thdaypriest]

The creation account in Genesis intimates that there were more than 'one Person' of the Godhead involved in the process. Genesis 1:1 says that 'God created the heaven and the earth". Verse 2 says "...And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters". In verse 26, it says "....Let us make man in OUR image....", meaning more than one Person. In the New Testament, John 1:1-3 provides an answer as to who created the earth, and verse 14 identifies 'the Word' as one of the Creators. Jesus identifies the Persons of the Godhead in Matthew 28:19, which says: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." 1 John 5:7 says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Verse 8 also identifies the Godhead. It says, "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and these three agree in one."

Christ told the disciples that He would send 'the Comforter'...the Holy Spirit, to be with them after His ascension back to heaven (John 16:7). In verses 8, 13, 14, 15 that follow you will see that Christ refers to the Holy Spirit as a 'he', meaning a Person. Christ refers to God in heaven as His Father. God in heaven refers to Jesus as 'His Son' at the time Jesus was baptized.

These are just a few of Bible scriptures that confirm that there are 'Three Persons' in the Godhead. The reference to their being only 'one' as given in 1 John 5:7 means that that they agree together as one in unity.

1. Christ referred to himself as "he" more than once. "When He the Son of Man comes ... " - is one example. So referring to the Spirit which the Father would send - through Christ - as He does NOT certify a third divine person.

Look at the messages to the 7 churches. Every one of them end with "hear what the Spirit saith" - yet if you read the message - it is Christ speaking. He is the one who was dead, and is now alive forevermore.

2. 1 John 5:7-8 is added text, inserted into the Latin translation of the Greek by Jerome under threat of death. Most translations make note of this. Almost no one uses this verse to "prove" a Trinity.

3. BAPTIZING THEM - IN THE NAME

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Scholarly work by those familiar with the ancient manuscripts has revealed no Greek manuscript older than the time of Constantine, which contains Matthew 28:19. The page containing Matthew 28:19 was torn from every pre-Constantine Greek manuscript. One Aramaic manuscript survives. In that manuscript, Matthew 28:19 reads, “baptizing them in my name.” In other words, Christ commanded them to baptize in HIS name. And many other passages confirm that the disciples did just that. It was Hebrew custom to be baptized in the name of the Rabi who brought you to the faith.

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 19:5 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”

Romans 6:3 “Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?”

Galatians 3:27 “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[JoeMo]

Rachel,

Great references. Another thing for me to ponder.

I looked at several translations today, and Matt. 28:19 says "...baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"; and there are never any footnotes to this. How do we rectify Christ's direct command with the letters of "mere" apostles?

[Aliensanctuary]

To the rest of the universe, Christ may not be so important as he is to us, since he is the one chosen to rule this world after the current usurper is destroyed. If someone wants to believe in a trinity, that's OK, because most likely we will all have to have everything about the Kingdom explained to us. The scriptures only give us a few clues, which are easily misunderstood.

When Christ said "I AM", those were the words of his father YHVH, not his own. As his father spoke to Christ via Spirit, so will he speak to us in the next life, telling us what to do and where to go. What we call prayer actually foreshadows the mental telepathy communication via Spirit of the future.

Earthly baptism, of course, only points to the real baptism in the River of Life. Earthly baptism has no power to prevent anyone from transgressing the Laws of the Kingdom, unlike the real baptism which will physically alter those who submit, a no-turning-back decision.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

1 John 5:7-8 is added text, inserted into the Latin translation of the Greek by Jerome under threat of death. Most translations make note of this. Almost no one uses this verse to "prove" a Trinity.

You are correct that no one should use that passage to prove a Trinity. The textual support is simply lacking.

However, just because one is correct does not mean that one should overstate the case. To do so detracts from the truth that one is attempting to promote. It is a gross overstatement to say that Jerome inserted it in the text under the threat of death.

A better approach would have been to have truthfully informed us that a palimpsest was discovered that contained that passage and then told us why you challenged that palimpsest. If you had done so, you would, in my mind, been accurate and demonstrated you accurate knowledge of the issue. By telling us that Jerome was threatened with death you demonstrate a lack of knowledge which throws you whole statement into doubt, even though you were correct in telling us that the passage in question should not be used to support a doctrine of the Trinity.

[Bert]

Quote:

Response by 8th day...1. Christ referred to himself as "he" more than once. "When He the Son of Man comes ... " - is one example. So referring to the Spirit which the Father would send - through Christ - as He does NOT certify a third divine person.

Obviously Christ will refer to Himself when speaking in a third person mode, but in John 16:7, Christ is identifying another Person and is referred to as a Comforter...a proper noun. Jesus then talks about the Comforter as a 'him' (verse 7), then as a 'He' in verses 8,13, 14, and 15. These verses also tell us what the 'Comforter', or Holy Spirit, will do. It is interesting that the Holy Spirit 'groans' when we pray as given in Romans 8:26 and 27. I would surmise that only a 'personage' is capable of groaning, not a spirit. At creation, the Spirit 'moved across the face of the waters'.

Quote:

Look at the messages to the 7 churches. Every one of them end with "hear what the Spirit saith" - yet if you read the message - it is Christ speaking. He is the one who was dead, and is now alive forevermore.

Revelation means the 'revealing of Jesus Christ'. In the first chapter of Revelation, in verse 10, John says that he 'was in the Spirit on the Lord's day'. It was the Holy Spirit that was with John, showing and telling him what was needed to be written about Christ. It is the Holy Spirit that warns us when we err. It is that still small voice that guides us.

Quote:

2. 1 John 5:7-8 is added text, inserted into the Latin translation of the Greek by Jerome under threat of death. Most translations make note of this. Almost no one uses this verse to "prove" a Trinity.

I am fully aware of the possibility of verse 7 being an added text, but verse 8 was not added. According to one of my Bibles, a translation from the Peshitta of Ancient Eastern Manuscripts, verse 7 says, "And the Spirit testifies that that very Spirit is the truth. Verse 8 says, "And there are three to bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three are one." This confirms verse 6. Verse 7 most likely was added to clarify and identify the entities in verse 8.

Quote:

3. BAPTIZING THEM - IN THE NAME

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Scholarly work by those familiar with the ancient manuscripts has revealed no Greek manuscript older than the time of Constantine, which contains Matthew 28:19. The page containing Matthew 28:19 was torn from every pre-Constantine Greek manuscript. One Aramaic manuscript survives. In that manuscript, Matthew 28:19 reads, “baptizing them in my name.” In other words, Christ commanded them to baptize in HIS name. And many other passages confirm that the disciples did just that. It was Hebrew custom to be baptized in the name of the Rabi who brought you to the faith.[/quote']

According to the Peshitta translation, Matthew 28:19 says, "Go, therefore, and convert all nations; and baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." The translation that I am using is a translation into English from an ancient form of the language of Aramaic that was used by Christians from earliest times. Aramaic was the language most certainly spoken for the most part by Jesus and His earliest followers, although they also knew Hebrew. Many translations, especially the modern versions, use the corrupted texts of Westcott and Hort...Sinaiticus and the Vaticanus being their sources, considered to be corrupted, changed and with numerous words and verses omitted. Compare the New Testament in the KJV against the NIV, and you will see many words changed, words omitted as well as entire verses or parts of verses.

The use of corrupted and/or changed Bible versions can present an entirely different contextual meaning in some instances. If interested, I will be happy to provide some of the most important ones.

God bless,

Bert

[Gregory Matthews]

I have been waiting in vain for someone to comment on the following post:

Rachel said:

Quote:

1 John 5:7-8 is added text, inserted into the Latin translation of the Greek by Jerome under threat of death. Most translations make note of this. Almost no one uses this verse to "prove" a Trinity.

I previously mentioned the above as an overstatement. There is another major problem.

The passage was placed in the Bible by Erasmus, not Jerome. It was Erasmus who challenged the passage. In a "fit of anger" he said that he would include it in the text if even one MSS could be found to contain it. Promptly one MSS was produced. I have mentioned elsewhere the nature of that MSS. It was a palimpsest.

The bottom line is that this passage should not be used to support the doctrine of the Trinity. No MSS earlier than the 15th and 16th centuries contains this passage.

The person who posted what I have copied above simply got it wrong when she said Jerome.

I have waited in vain for someone else to see that major error.

As I said in my previous post: The idea of a threat of death is a gross overstatement and cannot be documented.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I am fully aware of the possibility of verse 7 being an added text, but verse 8 was not added.

You are entitled to your opinion. But the majority of scholars would say that both verse 7 & 8 were added.

You may chose to use the Peshitta to support your viewpoint. Again, the majority of scholars would tell you that such is not appropriate and to do so simply overturns much of textual scholarship.

The Peshitta is not generally used to provide textual support for a translation of the Bible. Yes, I am aware that you can cite a translation that is based upon the Pashitta. But, there are reasons why it is not generally used. If you wish to do so, you should debate those reasons.

[8thdaypriest]

I have been waiting in vain for someone to comment on the following post:

Rachel said:

Quote:

1 John 5:7-8 is added text, inserted into the Latin translation of the Greek by Jerome under threat of death. Most translations make note of this. Almost no one uses this verse to "prove" a Trinity.

I previously mentioned the above as an overstatement. There is another major problem.

The passage was placed in the Bible by Erasmus, not Jerome. It was Erasmus who challenged the passage. In a "fit of anger" he said that he would include it in the text if even one MSS could be found to contain it. Promptly one MSS was produced. I have mentioned elsewhere the nature of that MSS. It was a palimpsest.

The bottom line is that this passage should not be used to support the doctrine of the Trinity. No MSS earlier than the 15th and 16th centuries contains this passage.

The person who posted what I have copied above simply got it wrong when she said Jerome.

I have waited in vain for someone else to see that major error.

As I said in my previous post: The idea of a threat of death is a gross overstatement and cannot be documented.

Thanks Gregory, I will do more research.

[8thdaypriest]

John 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who (or which) proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me” (John 15:26).

Luke 11:13 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?” (NKJ)

Ephesians 3:14-18 “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.”

According those these verses, the Spirit flows from the Father. The Father gives His Spirit.

The Spirit of the Father - flowing through His Son, enables Christ to dwell in us. Both the Father and the Son then live in us. We partake of their nature - and we are thus changed - and healed.

1 Corinthians 8:6 “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

CONCLUSION: The Holy Spirit originates from God the Father.

James 1:17-18 “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.”

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

NKJ 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being1." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1Co 15:45 NKJ)

The "last Adam" is Christ, and He "became a life-giving spirit". He became the "Comforter" whom the Father would send, the Spirit which gives life. He is the ONLY mediator BETWEEN God and man. If you say that another divine being facilitates communication between Christ and mankind, then you have just inserted ANOTHER MEDIATOR.

When Jesus ascended and was then glorified at Pentecost, the Father enabled His Son to once again be omnipresent.

1. “Our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son” (1John 1:3, 1John 2:24).

Thirteen times Paul greeted the disciples of Christ in the name of the Father and the Son. Once He prayed that the grace of Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Spirit would be with the followers of Christ. The weight is on the side of two divine beings, not three.

I spent four years studying almost nothing but this topic. I did not WANT to believe that my God is NOT a Trinity of three beings, but that is where the text led me. I just could not get around it. Though it cost me friends and fellowship I embraced John 3:16. God (the Father) really did give HIS only begotten Son. And when this is all over Christ Himself will be subject to His Father (I Cor. 15:28).

I appreciate Gregory's scholarship. After I do some further study, I will probably amend a note at my website. I'm just a simple woman. I don't have a theology degree. I just study and pray, and ask the LORD to show me what is true.

Blessings

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I'm just a simple woman. I don't have a theology degree. I just study and pray, and ask the LORD to show me what is true.

I clearly believe that you are honest and sincere.

While you have departed from Adventist doctrine, you are not as far away from what is acceptable in Adventism as you think that you are.

Furthermore. my looking at your website clearly shows the time effort and energy that you have put into your study of the issues.

Actually, while you are not Trinitarian, again, you are not as far away from that position as you present yourself to be.

[LynnDel]

The following scripture has always intrigued me, having seen the morphing of our teachings on the Holy Spirit even during my lifetime.

Quote:

From Acts 19:

1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

[8thdaypriest]

John the Baptist said:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He [Jesus Christ] will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. (Mat 3:11 NKJ)

The Father gives his spirit to his Son - "without measure" - and His Son then baptizes those who believe.

[stinsonmarri]

It is very sad to me that Seventh day Adventist truly do not know what is different with THE THREE SUPREME BEING Body and ours. Flesh and blood came about because of sin. We took on immortality and lost mortality our bodies became corrupted. The Bible made it very clear in Gen 1:26 that man was made like THEM. We have not understood what EGW said she saw that words have been changed in the Bible. In Gen 1:2, the KJV scribes were still in every way Catholic. The Church of England was only different from the Catholic was they could divorce. Henry VII made this change because of his sexual and murderous acts or either murdering his wives or divorcing them. The word of what put in which is not in the original Hebrew writings. Look at the Strong dictionary it shows that. THE HOLY SPIRIT was ELOHIM which is a plural word that most religious scholars deny. Why because THEY are THREE separable BEINGS working together as one! The Hebrew word one means united as a man and a woman becomes one or is united! When YAHWEH says MY SPIRIT, is any different than my sister. It only means that THE HOLY SPIRIT is associated with THE FATHER and THE SON.

The pioneers did not believe in the trinity nor did they understand all who THE HOLY SPIRIT was. They though HE was a part of ELOHIM but not an ELOHIM. They thought this way because they were not at the point of understanding. ELOHIM gave to them what they needed to know to bring people back to THEM for those call to start learning the truth. Not all truth was revealed at that time, but more was giving in 1888 and the Church as a whole rejected it. Today we have not understood they we cannot accept the word trinity because it is a lie!

YAHSHUA return to HIS original body, HE no longer had blood or flesh. HE told Thomas to touch HIM and Thomas did, because HE still had, a body that had skin and bones not the organs that needed blood. We do not think outside of the box of brainwash lies that has been give us by Satan. Do we think that ELOHIM can only create one way? Just because we do not understand that word RUACH actually means life, that THIS HOLY BEING does not have a body. Yet we say THEY are person which means human like the Greek gods of man that Satan confuses us to believe.

Finally, I believe in THREE SEPARATE but EQUAL BEINGS, not godhead or god but like even what the heathen knew and Nebuchadnezzar understood after he became saved.

And it is a rare thing that the king requireth, and there is none other that can shew it before the king, except the gods (THE ELOHIM), who's dwelling is not with flesh. Dan 2:11

CEV) It can't be done, except by the gods (THE ELOHIM), and they don't live here on earth."

I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God (THE HIGHEST ELOHIM) hath wrought toward me. But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods (THE HOLY ELOHIM): and before him I told the dream, saying; O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods (HOLY ELOHIM) is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof. And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed THE MOST HIGH, and I praised and honoured HIM that liveth forever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and HIS Kingdom is from generation to generation: Dan 4:2, 9 8, 34

Blessings to all and happy Sabbath!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Earthly baptism has no power to prevent anyone from transgressing the Laws of the Kingdom, unlike the real baptism which will physically alter those who submit, a no-turning-back decision.

It seems important to recognize that the "Laws of the Kingdom" were in affect from eternity. Since there was war in heaven as a result of the god of this world deciding he knew better than the creator God, how to run the government of heaven, I would suggest one primary reason the promises below will be affective for eternity will be the result that all that enter the kingdom will freely, humbly, and gratefully, submitting themselves to God's principles of love.

"What do you conspire against the Lord? He will make an utter end of it. Affliction will not rise up a second time."Nahum 1:9 NKJV

"“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."Jeremiah 31:33 NASB

"“This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws upon their heart, And on their mind I will write them, He then says,

“And their sins and their lawless deeds

I will remember no more.””"Hebrews 10:16-17 NASB

God is love! Jesus saves!