The 3 all work together in this

[8thdaypriest]

Jesus said,

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (Joh 4:24 NKJ)

But the subject of Jesus statement is "the Father".

God is Spirit (energy), but He also "sits on the throne" (meaning he is also mass).

"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. (Joh 4:23 NKJ)

The Father is GOD. He is the original unbegotten divine source of everything that exists.

Revelation Cpt 4 - "one sat on the throne".

Every being in heaven and earth worship HIM.

Verse 11: You are worthy O Lord, ... [the One sitting on the throne] For You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created."

Ephesians 3: 14-15 “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.”

Philippians 2:11 “... and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

There is NO VERSE glorifying "the Spirit" as a third divine being. Show me a verse which says that I am to worship the Spirit as a third divine being. It does not exist!

The Father IS Spirit. He is omnipresent, even though He appears to His created beings - sitting on a throne.

The Son of God is "the express image of His person" (Heb Cpt 1). An image is an exact COPY. So --- the Son also was spirit prior to His incarnation.

AFTER He returned to His Father's right hand - He was glorified -and was "made a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor 15:45).

His power to be omnipresent was restored.

"Then comes the end when He [Christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father..." Then "the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

The Son will be subject to His Father!

Which fits with I Cor 11:3 that God is the head of Christ.

It fits with Ephesians 1:3 which says that God the Father is the God of Christ.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

This also fits with the LORD's prayer

"Our Father ... Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

In Revelation 5:13, "every creature which is in heaven and on the earth" say "Blessing and honor and glory and power be to HIM who sits on the throne, AND to the Lamb, forever and ever."

How many beings are worshiped here? TWO!

The Father AND His Son.

I have read and studied the arguments for many years, that our God is three co-equal, co-eternal beings, but I do not see this in Scripture. In the Bible, only two beings are worshiped - God our Father, and Christ His begotten Son.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Dr. Waite]

Jesus said,

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (Joh 4:24 NKJ)

But the subject of Jesus statement is "the Father".

God is Spirit (energy), but He also "sits on the throne" (meaning he is also mass).

"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. (Joh 4:23 NKJ)

The Father is GOD. He is the original unbegotten divine source of everything that exists.

Revelation Cpt 4 - "one sat on the throne".

Every being in heaven and earth worship HIM.

Verse 11: You are worthy O Lord, ... [the One sitting on the throne] For You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created."

Ephesians 3: 14-15 “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.”

Philippians 2:11 “... and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

There is NO VERSE glorifying "the Spirit" as a third divine being. Show me a verse which says that I am to worship the Spirit as a third divine being. It does not exist!

The Father IS Spirit. He is omnipresent, even though He appears to His created beings - sitting on a throne.

The Son of God is "the express image of His person" (Heb Cpt 1). An image is an exact COPY. So --- the Son also was spirit prior to His incarnation.

AFTER He returned to His Father's right hand - He was glorified -and was "made a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor 15:45).

His power to be omnipresent was restored.

"Then comes the end when He [Christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father..." Then "the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

The Son will be subject to His Father!

Which fits with I Cor 11:3 that God is the head of Christ.

It fits with Ephesians 1:3 which says that God the Father is the God of Christ.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

This also fits with the LORD's prayer

"Our Father ... Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

In Revelation 5:13, "every creature which is in heaven and on the earth" say "Blessing and honor and glory and power be to HIM who sits on the throne, AND to the Lamb, forever and ever."

How many beings are worshiped here? TWO!

The Father AND His Son.

I have read and studied the arguments for many years, that our God is three co-equal, co-eternal beings, but I do not see this in Scripture. In the Bible, only two beings are worshiped - God our Father, and Christ His begotten Son.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

AMEN

"The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted." {YI, July 7, 1898 par. 2}

[stinsonmarri]

Jesus said,

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (Joh 4:24 NKJ)

But the subject of Jesus statement is "the Father".

God is Spirit (energy), but He also "sits on the throne" (meaning he is also mass).

"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. (Joh 4:23 NKJ)

The Father is GOD. He is the original unbegotten divine source of everything that exists.

Revelation Cpt 4 - "one sat on the throne".

Every being in heaven and earth worship HIM.

Verse 11: You are worthy O Lord, ... [the One sitting on the throne] For You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created."

Ephesians 3: 14-15 “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.”

Philippians 2:11 “... and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

There is NO VERSE glorifying "the Spirit" as a third divine being. Show me a verse which says that I am to worship the Spirit as a third divine being. It does not exist!

The Father IS Spirit. He is omnipresent, even though He appears to His created beings - sitting on a throne.

The Son of God is "the express image of His person" (Heb Cpt 1). An image is an exact COPY. So --- the Son also was spirit prior to His incarnation.

AFTER He returned to His Father's right hand - He was glorified -and was "made a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor 15:45).

His power to be omnipresent was restored.

"Then comes the end when He [Christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father..." Then "the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

The Son will be subject to His Father!

Which fits with I Cor 11:3 that God is the head of Christ.

It fits with Ephesians 1:3 which says that God the Father is the God of Christ.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.”

This also fits with the LORD's prayer

"Our Father ... Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

In Revelation 5:13, "every creature which is in heaven and on the earth" say "Blessing and honor and glory and power be to HIM who sits on the throne, AND to the Lamb, forever and ever."

How many beings are worshiped here? TWO!

The Father AND His Son.

I have read and studied the arguments for many years, that our God is three co-equal, co-eternal beings, but I do not see this in Scripture. In the Bible, only two beings are worshiped - God our Father, and Christ His begotten Son.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

You cannot get to THE FATHER or THE SON without the aid of THE HOLY SPIRIT. YAHSHUA said to pray that THE COMFORTER will come. HE never speaks of HIMSELF show clearly HE is not selfish. But if you listen and obey the truth that HE provides and disrespect HIM by grieving HIM away you are lost. YAHSHUA said you disrespect HIM or even THE FATHER, but not THE HOLY SPIRIT. You also have to invite THE HOLY SPIRIT in and when I pray I always said and call on THE FATHER. I then invite THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead me into all truth and end my prayer in THE NAME OF YAHSHUA. Amen!

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth. Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped. (Rev.5:6-14)

These verses seem to make a distinction between the Father and Son; but also implies that both are worthy of worship. Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped while in His earthly ministry (Ref. Matt. 28:9; John 20:28). Both are worthy of worship; and are God. But I agree with those who say never are we directed to pray to the Holy Spirit (although we are directed to pray in the spirit).

I don't know if I am a trinitarian or not. I feel strongly both ways. I pray to both the Father and Jesus; but I also pray to "God".

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

You cannot get to THE FATHER or THE SON without the aid of THE HOLY SPIRIT. YAHSHUA said to pray that THE COMFORTER will come. HE never speaks of HIMSELF show clearly HE is not selfish. But if you listen and obey the truth that HE provides and disrespect HIM by grieving HIM away you are lost. YAHSHUA said you disrespect HIM or even THE FATHER, but not THE HOLY SPIRIT. You also have to invite THE HOLY SPIRIT in and when I pray I always said and call on THE FATHER. I then invite THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead me into all truth and end my prayer in THE NAME OF YAHSHUA. Amen!Blessings!

While I think the Lord of glory will excuse me for spelling His name and probably pronouncing it different than originally intended, I am able to say amen to your post, as it is clearly according to the Word.

"“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

Matthew 12:31-33 NKJV

God is love! Jesus saves!

[phkrause]

"“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

Matthew 12:31-33 NKJV

Yes LHC, these are very powerful words, I believe by Jesus himself! This is the way it reads in the CJB: Matthew 12:31 Because of this, I tell you that people will be forgiven any sin and blasphemy, but blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh will not be forgiven. 32 One can say something against the Son of Man and be forgiven; but whoever keeps on speaking against the Ruach HaKodesh will never be forgiven, neither in the `olam hazeh nor in the `olam haba. Very interesting words I'd say. The 3 actually do work together.

[8thdaypriest]

So - you are saying that I am speaking "against the Holy Spirit" ??

Because I do not believe as you do concerning the nature of the Spirit.

I believe the Comforter IS JESUS - glorified and divinely empowered.

Jesus said,

I will pray the Father,

and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever,

even the Spirit of truth,

whom the world cannot receive

because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;

but you know Him for he dwells with you

and will be in you.

I will not leave you orphans;

I will come to you.

"Christ in you, the hope of glory." Never does it say "the Holy Spirit in you, the hope of glory".

verse 21: He who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

"Where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them."

"Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." This is Christ speaking!

I Cor 15:45 "The last Adam was made a life giving spirit" [the Holy Spirit].

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

"The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted." {YI, July 7, 1898 par. 2}

The SOP also says:

The Holy Spirit is Christ's representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high.--The Desire of Ages, p. 669.

We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.--Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) {Ev 616.5}

Christ gave His representative, the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. This Gift could not be excelled. . . . {CTr 301.4}

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- {Ev 615.1}

. . . The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. {AG 190.2}

When you cannot make the argument from Scripture, you fall back on EGW. Most do not know that - for the first 50 years of her ministry - she did NOT teach "three beings of a Heavenly Trio". James White called it a Rome-ish doctrine.

[8thdaypriest]

I don't remember saying that we would NOT have bodies. We will have immortal "spiritual" bodies.

Jesus entered the upper room, without going thru the door. He just appeared. Apparently a "spiritual body" can go back and forth between the spirit dimension and the physical.

It retains the appearance of the physical body during life (although some may not WANT to keep their "old" faces).

When Jesus appeared to John, many years after his resurrection - His face and hair were white like wool - as white as snow, His feet were like fine brass. So He retains physical characteristics, yet adds glory.

God the Father is described as sitting on a throne, with hair and eyes, and hands (all characteristics of physical human beings). And human beings were made "in the image of God". We don't know exactly what that means.

Jackson,

I do not believe that the Spirit is a third divine being. I believe that God His Father empowered the risen Christ, enabling HIM to once again be omnipresent. The Holy Spirit Comforter is the risen glorified Christ. He lives in us. He said, "I will come to you." "I will never forsake you." He is with us to the end of the age.

I don't remember ever reading, "The Holy Spirit in you - the hope of glory". No - it is Christ in you.

There is no passage in Scriptures saying that we are to pray to, love, ask of, thank, sing to, praise, or worship the Spirit. We are to pray FOR the Spirit, not "to" the Spirit.

When the people sing, "Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" - THAT is NOT Scriptural.

I myself modify the song to "Praise Father and Son for the Holy Ghost".

I think the weight of Scripture is solidly on the side of TWO divine beings - the Father and His Son - NOT three.

I prefer to use Scripture ONLY when debating this subject, because using Ellen White just turns into dueling quotes, as we have seen.

Blessings

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I prefer to use Scripture ONLY when debating this subject, because using Ellen White just turns into dueling quotes, as we have seen.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."John 16:7-13 KJV

Since Jesus used the personal pronoun at least ten times in this text, referring to The Holy Spirit and what He would accomplish when He came, I cannot logically offer any other conclusion, than that with His capacity to do these divine tasks, He would be any other than the third Person of the Godhead.

Jesus said "I will send Him", and since we need all the help we can get successfully through this fallen world, it is doubtful Jesus would send anyone with less capacity than Himself.

Especially when one considers the enemy(s) we face on a daily basis.

"Casting all your care upon him (Jesus); for he careth for you.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world."1 Peter 5:7-9 KJV Parenthesis mine LHC

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."Ephesians 6:12 KJV

God is Love! Jesus saves! The Holy Spirit guides, comforts, teaches Truth, convicts, reproves of sin and righteousness, and shows us things to come.

[stinsonmarri]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

"The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted." {YI, July 7, 1898 par. 2}

The SOP also says:

The Holy Spirit is Christ's representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high.--The Desire of Ages, p. 669.

We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.--Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) {Ev 616.5}

Christ gave His representative, the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. This Gift could not be excelled. . . . {CTr 301.4}

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- {Ev 615.1}

. . . The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. {AG 190.2}

EGW also stated this:

How shall we search the Scriptures in order to understand what they teach? We should come to the investigation of ELOHIM'S Word with a contrite heart, a teachable and prayerful spirit. We are not to think, as did the Jews, that our own ideas and opinions are infallible; nor with the papists, that certain individuals are the sole guardians of truth and knowledge, that men have no right to search the Scriptures for themselves, but must accept the explanations given by the fathers of the church. We should not study the Bible for the purpose of sustaining our preconceived opinions, but with the single object of learning what ELOHIM has said.

Some have feared that if in even a single point they acknowledge themselves in error, other minds would be led to doubt the whole theory of truth. Therefore they have felt that investigation should not be permitted, that it would tend to dissension and disunion. But if such is to be the result of investigation, the sooner it comes the better. If there are those whose faith in ELOHIM Word will not stand the test of an investigation of the Scriptures, the sooner they are revealed the better; for then the way will be opened to show them their error. We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One who is infallible--HE who is the way, the truth, and the life.

Those who allow prejudice to bar the mind against the reception of truth cannot receive the divine enlightenment. Yet, when a view of Scripture is presented, many do not ask, Is it true--in harmony with God’s word? but, By whom is it advocated? and unless it comes through the very channel that pleases them, they do not accept it. So thoroughly satisfied are they with their own ideas that they will not examine the Scripture evidence with a desire to learn, but refuse to be interested, merely because of their prejudices.

YAHSHUA often works where we least expect HIM; HE surprises us by revealing His power through instruments of HIS own choice, while He passes by the men to whom we have looked as those through whom light should come. YAHWEH ELOHIM desires us to receive the truth upon its own merits--because it is truth.

The Bible must not be interpreted to suit the ideas of men, however long they may have held these ideas to be true. We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of YAHWEH ELOHIM; they were erring mortals like ourselves. YAHWEH ELOHIM has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor. TM 105, 106

EGW did not understand what we know and understand today. She never believed in the trinity, however she though as all did in her time, that THE HOLY SPIRIT was from THE FATHER. THE HOLY SPIRIT is not a person, that word mean an human being. The word "RUACH," means LIVING SPIRIT! In Gen 1:2 where is says THE SPIRIT OF ELOHIM is incorrect. Of is not in the original Hebrew that was put in by the KJV scribe and they were still Catholic in every way but divorce because of Henry VIII. THE FATHER, THE SON, THE HOLY and the angels are all spiritual beings.

And YAHWEH appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And YAHWEH said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Gen 18:1, 2, 17

I am come in MY FATHER'S NAME, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43

THE SON and two angel before HE was flesh, came in their spiritual bodies and they ate as well. When YAHSHUA came through the door and Thomas touch Him it was the spiritual body. Only flesh which is blood cannot enter the Kingdom. We have flesh THE SUPREME BEINGS does not! We think inside the box and tried to limited ELOHIM to us instead elevating up to THEM! Satan wants to believe in some ghost like form that we've seen on tv through someone deceived mind. We even call THE HOLY SPIRIT a ghost because the scribes believe in traditions of lies and place it there. RUACH is a LIVING SPIRITUAL BEING, but the word ghost! Stop thinking that you know more than ELOHIM. That is why you call THEIR NAMES in vain. HOLY are THEIR NAMES, and Satan through man has all to ever disrespect THEIR NAMES and who they truly are THREE SUPERNATURAL BEINGS with Great Powers to create molecular structures as THEY please.

Blessings!

[Gregory Matthews]

When you tell us that EGW said X, you appear to be quoting her.

Are you telling us that EGW used words like: ELOHIM and YAHSUA?

It looks to me like you are inserting your own words in material which looks like EGW said. In fact, it looks like you are replacing her words with your words.

Not an accepted method of telling us what she said.

[8thdaypriest]

Christ spoke of HIMSELF in third person - "He" or "his" - many times. Just look up every reference with "Son of Man". He speaks of himself as if He is talking about another person.

"The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, (Mat 13:41 NKJ)

"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. (Mat 16:27 NKJ)

Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, "and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up." (Mat 17:22-23 NKJ)

I don't think that His speaking of the Comforter as "He" is proof of a third divine being. Jesus spoke only what He heard from His Father, so that is not proof of a third being either.

Jesus is the ONLY mediator BETWEEN God and man. He has been so from the moment of creation. If you say that the Holy Spirit is a third divine being who facilitates communication BETWEEN Christ and mankind, then you have inserted another mediator.

[8thdaypriest]

As I understand the Holy Spirit - He is Christ, empowered by the Father. So the Holy Spirit is BOTH the Father and the Son - together as "one".

"Jesus answered and said to him, 'If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.'" (Joh 14:23 NKJ)

"that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

Why not "our fellowship is with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" ? Nope - doesn't say that.

The Holy Spirit WAS a new entity. I agree with THAT. And the power poured out empowered the church, and convicted unbelievers.

Christ said that the Spirit would "bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you." (Jn 14:26)

"Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say. "For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say" (Luk 12:11-12 NKJ).

Here is Mark:

"But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate1 what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. (Mar 13:11 NKJ)

Here is how Matthew remembered this saying.

"But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; "for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. (Mat 10:19-20 NKJ)

Put these three together.

The Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of your Father".

The Holy Spirit "proceeds FROM the Father" and flows thru Christ, thus taking on His personality. No third divine being is needed here.

"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who [or which] proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. (Joh 15:26 NKJ)

Miracles "testify".

The Scriptures "testify" (Jn 5:39).

And the power of the Spirit "testifies".

The presence and power of the Spirit is a sign that gives proof of God and Christ. But we do not have to make this Spirit a THIRD divine being.

What's is wrong with simply believing that God our Father did indeed give His only begotten - His literally begotten offspring, begotten in eternity prior to the creation of earth or of any other thing?

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

Concerning Matthew 12:31:

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Mat 12:31 NKJ).

The Spirit is the ONLY MEANS by which the Father and His Son communicate with mankind - the only means by which they can teach, heal, and restore. If one labels this Spirit as "of the Devil" - then he has just cut himself OFF from salvation. If he pushes away conviction regarding his behavior, the LORD will come back again and again and again. But the heart becomes "hardened" to the pleadings of the Spirit. This also is the "sin against the Spirit".

One says "it's the Devil". The other says "It's not that important".

I personally believe there is ONLY ONE "salvation issue", and that is the individual's response to the Spirit. The spirit may come to different individuals with different testing points depending upon circumstance and level of understanding, but the issue remains the same. Will the individual accept or reject the conviction of the Spirit.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Mat 12:31 NKJ).

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:31 KJV

There seems to be an ambiguous connotation in the NKJ that doesn't exist in the KJV. "All manner of sin and blasphemy", doesn't equate with "every sin and blasphemy". This may seem to be a small matter, but if we accept "all blasphemy will be forgiven", that would include blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, just the opposite of what the KJV states, which has to do with our salvation and makes it easier for a person to accept the false premise of "once saved, always saved".

There will come a time when the underlined will be true for those saved, but not as long as we live on this fallen planet.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.1 Cor 15:51-53 KJV

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[stinsonmarri]

When you cannot make the argument from Scripture, you fall back on EGW. Most do not know that - for the first 50 years of her ministry - she did NOT teach "three beings of a Heavenly Trio". James White called it a Rome-ish doctrine.

[stinsonmarri]

Concerning Matthew 12:31:

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Mat 12:31 NKJ).

The Spirit is the ONLY MEANS by which the Father and His Son communicate with mankind - the only means by which they can teach, heal, and restore. If one labels this Spirit as "of the Devil" - then he has just cut himself OFF from salvation. If he pushes away conviction regarding his behavior, the LORD will come back again and again and again. But the heart becomes "hardened" to the pleadings of the Spirit. This also is the "sin against the Spirit".

One says "it's the Devil". The other says "It's not that important".

I personally believe there is ONLY ONE "salvation issue", and that is the individual's response to the Spirit. The spirit may come to different individuals with different testing points depending upon circumstance and level of understanding, but the issue remains the same. Will the individual accept or reject the conviction of the Spirit.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

You were doing ok but you still included YAHWEH as coming back again and again. YAHWEH does not do THE HOLY SPIRIT work, HE is THE JUDGE, and THE HOLY SPIRIT is the ONE who lead us first to YAHSHUA THE HIGH PRIEST as we confess our sins and stop sinning. The angel with the Writer's Inkhorn records our deed and it is giving to THE JUDGE who seals us and place our Name in the Book of Life only if HIS SON states that HE has shed blood for this sinner and HE is covered. THEY are a TEAM that work together. ONE never doing the work of THE OTHER!

Happy Sabbath!

[8thdaypriest]

NKJ John 5:22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, (Joh 5:22 NKJ)

Yeshua the Son of God IS the one and ONLY mediator BETWEEN God and man. 1 Tim 2:5

There is no other mediator, who pleads with us on the Father's behalf.

[stinsonmarri]

NKJ John 5:22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, (Joh 5:22 NKJ)

Yeshua the Son of God IS the one and ONLY mediator BETWEEN God and man. 1 Tim 2:5

There is no other mediator, who pleads with us on the Father's behalf.

You have to understand the deep meaning of the Greek word "krinō." Both THE FATHER and THE SON will judge. In Heaven THE SON is THE PRIEST who plead on the behalf of those who will be saved. THE FATHER during this time is THE JUDGE and THE LAW is the Prosecutor, it said if you sin you must die! Those who stop sinning through the blood of YAHSHUA will be saved. However, the wicked will be judge by THE FATHER. When YAHSHUA returns the second time, because also the saints will too judge the wicked. All will see why their love ones did not make it. When YAHSHUA and the saints return to the earth, the wicked will be raise from the dead. Satan, his evil angels, the wicked all will be judge which is the executive judgment this their reward that YAHSHUA will mete out destroying all with fire! Happy Sabbath and blessings!

[Dr. Waite]

When you cannot make the argument from Scripture, you fall back on EGW. Most do not know that - for the first 50 years of her ministry - she did NOT teach "three beings of a Heavenly Trio". James White called it a Rome-ish doctrine.

You are correct but we have progress since her time to learn and to understand even more about ALL THREE and THEIR different work as THEY work together united which what the Hebrew word one meant.

Happy Sabbath!

[Aliensanctuary]

We "communicate" with the Father via Spirit (prayer), and therefore, without Spirit, we cannot "communicate" with the Father.

Spirit, then, communicates the thoughts and voice of the Father. The Father also used Spirit to create life, heal the sick, raise the dead, and reveal men's thoughts to Christ when he was dealing with them on Earth.

Without Spirit, WE are dead, because Spirit keeps us alive.

Someday the Spirit receptors in our brains will be re-activated and we will hear the voice of the LORD telling us where to go and what to do. We would call this mental telepathy.

[Dr. Waite]

We "communicate" with the Father via Spirit (prayer), and therefore, without Spirit, we cannot "communicate" with the Father.

Spirit, then, communicates the thoughts and voice of the Father. The Father also used Spirit to create life, heal the sick, raise the dead, and reveal men's thoughts to Christ when he was dealing with them on Earth.

Without Spirit, WE are dead, because Spirit keeps us alive.

Someday the Spirit receptors in our brains will be re-activated and we will hear the voice of the LORD telling us where to go and what to do. We would call this mental telepathy.

[Aliensanctuary]

Spirit, then, an unseen but powerful force, connects the Father to his universe, and to us.

[joeb]

So - you are saying that I am speaking "against the Holy Spirit" ??

Because I do not believe as you do concerning the nature of the Spirit.

I believe the Comforter IS JESUS - glorified and divinely empowered.

Jesus said,

I will pray the Father,

and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever,

even the Spirit of truth,

whom the world cannot receive

because it neither sees Him nor knows Him;

but you know Him for he dwells with you

and will be in you.

I will not leave you orphans;

I will come to you.

"Christ in you, the hope of glory." Never does it say "the Holy Spirit in you, the hope of glory".

verse 21: He who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

"Where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them."

"Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." This is Christ speaking!

I Cor 15:45 "The last Adam was made a life giving spirit" [the Holy Spirit].

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint