Evolution makes the Sabbath meaningless!

[Robert]

This isn't meant to be a discussion on evolution.  It's really a discussion on the Sabbath as connected to the creation of this world.

 

Turn to Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

 

After the Sabbath or the second 1st day (Sunday), did God take up creating again?

 

No!

 

Why?  Because His work of creation was complete...it was finished.  The creation of the heavens and earth, and all the host of them, stood perfect straight from the creator's hand.  Hence God's rest from His creative works was once and for all times.  His rest was to be eternal if it were not for the fall of mankind.

 

In evolution the Sabbath never occurred.  Hence it is rendered meaningless.

[Gregory Matthews]

Sabbath meaningless in evolution:  I meet people every week who are evolutionists, and ardent Sabbath keepers.  You may be qualified to speak for yourself and to you the Sabbath might be  meaningless if you believed in evolution.  But, I can testify that there are others who are evolutionists and do not see it as you do.  You do not speak for them.

[LifeHiscost]

Sabbath meaningless in evolution:  I meet people every week who are evolutionists, and ardent Sabbath keepers.  You may be qualified to speak for yourself and to you the Sabbath might be  meaningless if you believed in evolution.  But, I can testify that there are others who are evolutionists and do not see it as you do.  You do not speak for them.

The Sabbath is the seventh day after the beginning of the 1st day of creation, named the Sabbath by the Creator as a memorial, and a sign to His creation of His relationship with them. He made and described all this as good, good, and very good. As I understand it, evolution started from nothing and developed over millions and millions of years, all of it's own volition through survival of the fittest, effectively making a supreme being of no consequence and right and wrong only a matter of personal preference, depending on how one feels and also making the seventh day (the Sabbath) meaningless, despite the protestation of those who have worked out another scenario.

 

 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you ...John 8:32

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

And I regularly interact with people who demonstrate the falsity of what you have posted.  They find meaning in all that you have said have no meaning.  You can speak for yourself and your words can be considered true.  But, you cannot do that for another and expect your words to be true.

[LifeHiscost]

And I regularly interact with people who demonstrate the falsity of what you have posted.  They find meaning in all that you have said have no meaning.  You can speak for yourself and your words can be considered true.  But, you cannot do that for another and expect your words to be true.

Which makes this all the more significant.

 

24"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.…John 5

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Robert]

Sabbath meaningless in evolution:  I meet people every week who are evolutionists, and ardent Sabbath keepers.  You may be qualified to speak for yourself and to you the Sabbath might be  meaningless if you believed in evolution.  But, I can testify that there are others who are evolutionists and do not see it as you do.  You do not speak for them.

 

The Sabbath, as far as evolution goes, is meaningless because the creation was not finished by the end of the 6th day and therefore God never rested from His perfect, sinless creation.

 

According to evolution primitive mankind was 2.5 million years away from the big bang.  This blatantly contradicts the Bible. 

[Robert]

And I regularly interact with people who demonstrate the falsity of what you have posted.  They find meaning in all that you have said have no meaning.  You can speak for yourself and your words can be considered true.  But, you cannot do that for another and expect your words to be true.

So you are their spokesperson?

[Robert]

Evolution's primitive man:

 

 

 

What the Bible states:

 

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.... 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

 

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 

[Robert]

Ez 28:12 'Thus says the Lord God: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created...

 

 

But, I'm sure Lucifer really looked like the following  :

 

[CoAspen]

Robert, you continue to miss the point. Greg knows people who believe and feel different about the subject and you refuse to accept that. Why? Do you feel so superior in your knowledge that you can't accept other peoples knowledge?

I sense a lot of pride fulness in your posts, whether you mean it that way or not.

[Robert]

Robert, you continue to miss the point. Greg knows people who believe and feel different about the subject and you refuse to accept that. Why? 

 Let me quote Ellen White:

 

Inferences erroneously drawn from facts observed in nature have, however, led to supposed conflict between science and revelation; and in the effort to restore harmony, interpretations of Scripture have been adopted that undermine and destroy the force of the word of God. Geology has been thought to contradict the literal interpretation of the Mosaic record of the creation. Millions of years, it is claimed, were required for the evolution of the earth from chaos; and in order to accommodate the Bible to this supposed revelation of science, the days of creation are assumed to have been vast, indefinite periods, covering thousands or even millions of years.

 

Such a conclusion is wholly uncalled for. The Bible record is in harmony with itself and with the teaching of nature. Of the first day employed in the work of creation is given the record, "The evening and the morning were the first day." Genesis 1:5. And the same in substance is said of each of the first six days of creation week. Each of these periods Inspiration declares to have been a day consisting of evening and morning, like every other day since that time. In regard to the work of creation itself the divine testimony is, "He spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast." Psalm 33:9. With Him who could thus call into existence unnumbered worlds, how long a time would be required for the evolution of the earth from chaos? In order to account for His works, must we do violence to His word?

[Robert]

Do you feel so superior in your knowledge that you can't accept other peoples knowledge? I sense a lot of pride fulness in your posts, whether you mean it that way or not.

 

No, no...you've got it backwards. This pride resides in those who push theistic evolution.  They have made their minds the measuring stick of truth instead of making the Bible the last word.

 

In evolution God never rested from His perfect & sinless work because His work was never finished! Pseudoscience teaches us that mankind is still evolving to a higher sphere. Hence theistic evolution is a subtle form of legalistic pride!

[Robert]

God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms.  The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority–not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith.  Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain “Thus saith the Lord” in its support.” – Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, 595.

[Robert]

They find meaning in all that you have said have no meaning.  

 

 

Really? 

 

The Sabbath always points to a finished and complete work by God.  We are, by faith, to rest as God rested to outwardly demonstrate that we agree with God's completed work.

 

Creation is no longer a finished work, but rather it has been ruined by the fall of mankind.  It does, however, point to His sinless work.  Nevertheless, we do not rest from a perfect creation, but a perfect redemption "in Christ Jesus".

 

Once Jesus returns a 3rd time then He will make a new heaven and new earth.  Then again the Sabbath will point to a perfect creation (actually, re-creation).  But for now it points to God's perfect work of redemption in Christ! Anything outside this is not Biblical!

Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath-keeping for God's people. 10 For the one who has entered God's rest (context: His completed work in Christ Jesus) has also rested from his own works, as God did from his. 

[Gregory Matthews]

^{Yes, really.  You can attach a meaning to the Sabbath that negates its value if you believe in evolution.  But, there are people, whom I know who are not in that situation.  They are evoluitonists and value the Sabbath highly.}

 

^{NOTE:  I am not a theistic evolutionist.}

[CoAspen]

 

Robert, you continue to miss the point. Greg knows people who believe and feel different about the subject and you refuse to accept that. Why?

 

 Let me quote Ellen White:

 

Inferences erroneously drawn from facts observed in nature have, however, led to supposed conflict between science and revelation; and in the effort to restore harmony, interpretations of Scripture have been adopted that undermine and destroy the force of the word of God. Geology has been thought to contradict the literal interpretation of the Mosaic record of the creation. Millions of years, it is claimed, were required for the evolution of the earth from chaos; and in order to accommodate the Bible to this supposed revelation of science, the days of creation are assumed to have been vast, indefinite periods, covering thousands or even millions of years.

 

Such a conclusion is wholly uncalled for. The Bible record is in harmony with itself and with the teaching of nature. Of the first day employed in the work of creation is given the record, "The evening and the morning were the first day." Genesis 1:5. And the same in substance is said of each of the first six days of creation week. Each of these periods Inspiration declares to have been a day consisting of evening and morning, like every other day since that time. In regard to the work of creation itself the divine testimony is, "He spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast." Psalm 33:9. With Him who could thus call into existence unnumbered worlds, how long a time would be required for the evolution of the earth from chaos? In order to account for His works, must we do violence to His word?

You still do not address the question. You made a starting statement and when Greg gives you an apposing point of view supported by his observations and personal knowledge of people whom you do not know, you in a sense a calling those persons lairs.

 

Missing the point...again....your quote does not connect with what Greg has told you. Prideful perhaps in your 'knowledge'?

[Robert]

^{They are evoluitonists and value the Sabbath highly.}

 

 

How so?

[Robert]

Suggested reading:

 

https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1992/01/theistic-evolution

[Gregory Matthews]

Robert, in post # !, of this thread, you stated that this thread was not about evolution, rather it was about the Sabbath.  You keep bringing up theistic evolution and in doing so you are taking this thread in a direction that you stated the thread was not about.

 

In post # 17 you ask me to explain how an evolutlionist could value the Sabbath highly.  Well, as I understand you, you really do not want me to speak for others.  So, I will simply report what I have observed and I will not attempt to explain it.

 

There is also another reason.  you come across to me as tying the Sabbath to one issue--creation.  As I understand the Bible, the Sabbath is tied to more than just the creation.  NOTE:  I have said that creation is a part.  Well, I do not have the time or energy to attempt to enlighten you on the other fundamental issues that the Bible ties to the Sabbath.  Rather, I can only encourage you to give a deeper study to the Biblical doctrine of the Sabbath.  In any case, these people that I reference, have a sense of some of the other Biblical issues that are tied to the Sabbath and that is part (I did not say all.) of the reason that they value the Sabbath.

 

In any case, the fact remains:  I know people who negate what you claim.

[Robert]

...you come across to me as tying the Sabbath to one issue--creation.  As I understand the Bible, the Sabbath is tied to more than just the creation..... I can only encourage you to give a deeper study to the Biblical doctrine of the Sabbath. 

 

Unless these Theistic Evolutionists are keeping the Sabbaths as outlined in Leviticus chapter 23, which according to the Apostle Paul were made obsolete by Christ's dong & dying (see Colossians 2:16,17), then the Sabbath symbolizes either a finished & perfect creation or a finished & perfect redemption (see Genesis 2:1-3/Exodus 20:8-11 and Deut 5:12-15/Heb 4:9,10, respectively).

 

Since the creation has by ruined by the fall the only legitimate, Biblical reason to keep the Sabbath is as it points to our redemption in Christ. Nevertheless, the Sabbath of creation is a reminder that "in the beginning" God created "the heavens and earth" and rested from His perfect work on the 7th-day. 

[Tom Wetmore]

Consider that Moses wrote two versions of the Sabbath commandment.  One links it to creation, the other  doesn't.  Read the commandments in Deuteronomy 5.

 

Keeping the Sabbath for other reasons than as a memorial of creation is very possible. 

[JoeMo]

Robert says: "The Bible record is in harmony with itself and with the teaching of nature."

 

That is a problem for open-minded people - especially non-believers.  The Bible being in harmony with itself make it equivalent to circular logic.  I can hear the conversation:

"The Bible says the earth was created in 6 days; and the Bible is infallible."

"Why do you think the Bible is infallible?"

"Because it says so, right in the Bible."

"And why do you believe that?"

"Because the Bible is the infallible Word of God."

"How do you know it's the infallible word of God?"

"Because it says so in the Bible; and the Bible is infallible."

"..."

And so it goes.

 

Gregory speaks of those who consider evolution a very reasonable and scientifically supported theory of origin (almost proven beyond theory).  Yet the Sabbath is a truth I will hang on to whether or not I remain an Adventist.  Why? Because God said it was one of His Family values; and if I want to be a member of His Family; I should honor and respect the God Family values.  It has nothing to do with whether o the earth was created in 6 days or 6 billion years.  God rested when He was done; and He wants us to honor that.

 

I believe God's Word is true; I just don't interpret everything as literally as others.  From a practical standpoint, can you imagine how thick the book of Genesis would be if God had to explain the whole DNA genetic code thing to a a bunch of slaves and sheep-herders?I can't.  So God used a parable whose underlying message was that He created life; and set into motion laws and processes that make life self sustaining and progressively more diverse and complex.

 

If Bible teaching were in such obvious harmony with nature, how come virtually all scientific evidence fails to see that?  Maybe it's your interpretation of the Bible.

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

Keeping the Sabbath for other reasons than as a memorial of creation is very possible. 

Definitely! One of the most promising for present as well as future security is this one.

 

20'Sanctify My sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.' Ezek 20

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[Robert]

Consider that Moses wrote two versions of the Sabbath commandment.  One links it to creation, the other  doesn't.  Read the commandments in Deuteronomy 5.

 

Keeping the Sabbath for other reasons than as a memorial of creation is very possible. 

Deut refers to a redemptive significance.  This applied only to the Jews for it was God who delivered them from Egyptian slavery. 

[Robert]

God rested when He was done; and He wants us to honor that.

 

 

Done with what?