Senate Chaplain makes a stand

[lazarus]

[lazarus]

In his Prayer Chaplain Black said, ""Forgive us when we have failed to lift our voices for those who couldn't speak or breathe for themselves"....."May we not forget that in our history injustice has often been maintained because good people failed to promptly act,"

[GoLions]

I didn't know Barry Black was part of the 'hands up don't shoot' crowd.  That's rather disappointing, because it is not an accurate representation of what actually happened.  (don't let facts ruin a good story I guess).  The 'I cant breath' story and video is much worse and very difficult to watch...

 

My opinion is that Barry could have done better by keeping his hands down.  Must be nice to be paid for your government job while protesting the very same government you are working for...instead of actually working.  Or is that stealing/looting?

[Woody]

All I can say is .... this is truly SAD. To perpetuate a falsehood .... is not Christian.

[Gerr]

Sorry, but I would have been more impressed if he had taken a stand on the unpopular truth.

[Tom Wetmore]

Rather than lower your opinion of him for the position he has taken simply because you don't [don't want to] like/agree, have you considered or made any effort to try to understand his, or any black person's perspective/experience on the matter?

 

And why do you add, "as if it really matters" to your observation?

[Tom Wetmore]

Sorry, but I would have been more impressed if he had taken a stand on the unpopular truth.

 

What unpopular truth?  And what is your criteria for rating that as the truth, as opposed to any other POV?

 

I am suspecting by the number of hostile/critical comments that "unpopular" is a rather subjective or relative assessment and not itself much of a truth really...

[lazarus]

Rather than lower your opinion of him for the position he has taken simply because you don't [don't want to] like/agree, have you considered or made any effort to try to understand his, or any black person's perspective/experience on the matter?

 

And why do you add, "as if it really matters" to your observation?

I wonder how long before Chaplain Barry Black will be called a "race hustler" and a charlatan. It is fascinating to see history repeat itself. Many of MLK's fiercest opponents were church going, white Christians. You're right Tom. Not even a pause to seek to understand but just a willingness to tear him down.

[Gerr]

I wonder how long before before Chaplain Barry Black will be caled a "race hustler" and a charlatan. It is fascinating to see history repeat itself. Many of MLK's fiercest opponents were church going, white Christians. You're right Tom. Not even a pause to seek to understand but just a willingness to tear him down. 

I am not disputing Barry Black's right to protest nor the fact that American history is replete with injustices to blacks AND other minorities. (I am a minority also and have felt the sting of indignity from Jim crow.) What is disgusting to me is Barry's choice to perpetuate a gesture that was/is based on a lie.  That is totally unbecoming of an Adventist Christian Chaplain, imo.  As McWhorter pointed out in his Time magazine article, "Ferguson is the wrong tragedy.  The facts are too muddy to rally Americans - but the underlying problem is crystal clear."  He is an associate professor at Columbia U who looks to be part black to me. 

 

The South AND the America that I saw in the late 50's to the  60's are VERY different than the South and America that I see today as far as race relations are concerned. I spent two years in the deep South while I was in the US Navy, and then also went to college there.  I live in NC now, and I am amazed at the number of Black/White couples that I see.  But my perception is that, and correct me if I'm wrong, too many blacks SEEM to be stuck in the 50's and  60's.  Viewing every police department around the country as a Bull Connor is no less profiling of the worst kind.  If you want to be treated with dignity, then treat others with dignity, including the policeman who is out to protect people and property, whose family may be on edge everyday not knowing whether he comes home dead or alive. And viewing every white officer/black man encounter as a racial issue is as stupid as it can get.  As has been reported, there are far more white people killed by white officers than blacks.  There are also instances where  black officers have killed white people. Are these about issues of race?  But those don't make the news.  Why is that?  And please, help me understand this - other minorities - Asians of different nationalities, Africans, Blacks from the Caribbean, seem to move on and become fully integrated into American society, but why is it that there is such a significant segment of the American black population that feel like they are out of the loop of the American dream?  (The Hispanics and Muslims present another problem, too many of them seem to want to integrate American society to them instead of the other way around.)

 

As for changes for reform, what do the protesters, rioters, and arsonists want?  Is there any right that is not protected by law except the right to destroy property, steal, or to inconvenience other people by blocking the streets and businesses?  Until the human heart is reformed, no amount of laws will change how people interact. The law may protect my right to live anywhere I can afford, but there is no law that can force my neighbor to like me or treat me fairly. And there will be a lot less deaths when people start showing respect for the law and the authorities that enforce that law.

[Gerr]

Tom Wetmore, on 13 Dec 2014 - 6:07 PM, said:

What unpopular truth?  And what is your criteria for rating that as the truth, as opposed to any other POV?

 

I am suspecting by the number of hostile/critical comments that "unpopular" is a rather subjective or relative assessment and not itself much of a truth really...

The unpopular truth I was referring to was  the finding of the grand jury, i.e. Brown did NOT have his arms up.  I don't believe the grand jury handed down their verdict without fleshing out the truth as they saw it based on the evidence presented.  Contrary to his friend Johnson's account, other eyewitnesses said he was charging the officer.  The facts are unpopular to those who had already made up their minds that the officer was guillty of racism.  It is disgusting and apalling to me that a gesture based on a lie was taken up even by a "man of the cloth". Does not the truth matter?

[Gerr]

I wonder how long before Chaplain Barry Black will be called a "race hustler" and a charlatan. It is fascinating to see history repeat itself. Many of MLK's fiercest opponents were church going, white Christians. You're right Tom. Not even a pause to seek to understand but just a willingness to tear him down.

If he had chosen, "I can't breathe" for his protest, I would have had no problem and even applauded him.  But if he takes up the cause of a few more incidents based on lies, then for sure he will be classed with the Sharptons and Jacksons. 

[CoAspen]

In his Prayer Chaplain Black said, ""Forgive us when we have failed to lift our voices for those who couldn't speak or breathe for themselves"....."May we not forget that in our history injustice has often been maintained because good people failed to promptly act,"

In view of some negative responses and because we don't have the ability to question the chaplain in person....we could also take the 'hands up' gesture as a message to all Black persons as what their behavior should be when approached by authority.

[CoAspen]

>>>And please, help me understand this - other minorities - Asians of different nationalities, Africans, Blacks from the Caribbean, seem to move on and become fully integrated into American society, but why is it that there is such a significant segment of the American black population that feel like they are out of the loop of the American dream?<<<

Could it be that those other minorities do not have a history of slavery in this country? Are you sure the other minorities are fully integrated into American Society? Is there data to back up that assumption?

[pierrepaul]

I didn't know Barry Black was part of the 'hands up don't shoot' crowd. That's rather disappointing, because it is not an accurate representation of what actually happened. (don't let facts ruin a good story I guess). The 'I cant breath' story and video is much worse and very difficult to watch...

My opinion is that Barry could have done better by keeping his hands down. Must be nice to be paid for your government job while protesting the very same government you are working for...instead of actually working. Or is that stealing/looting?

Barry Black works for the US federal government. The government responsible for the Ferguson incident was and is the Missouri state government. Mr Black does not work for Missouri.

[lazarus]

 

What is disgusting to me is Barry's choice to perpetuate a gesture that was/is based on a lie.  That is totally unbecoming of an Adventist Christian Chaplain, imo.

LOL, those who believe that the justice system is fair will baulk at "hands up" and think his actions are unbecoming. Your type of reaction is not new, even from someone who is a minority. There were many minorities who opposed the civil right movement. They thought protests were unbecoming of clergy.

 

 

But my perception is that, and correct me if I'm wrong, too many blacks SEEM to be stuck in the 50's and  60's.  Viewing every police department around the country as a Bull Connor is no less profiling of the worst kind......And viewing every white officer/black man encounter as a racial issue is as stupid as it can get.

You are wrong. What black public figure has said what you suggest here. Please post the sources where you got this impression. I doubt you have any.

 

Here are the word of someone who you would call a "race hustler" “All police are not bad, most are not bad,” said Sharpton. “And they should not be colored by the activities of individuals, any more than a black that does wrong should color me.”

 

As has been reported, there are far more white people killed by white officers than blacks.

 

 That would be natural since more crimes are committed by whites. Blacks are killed at a higher rate than whites, twice as often.

 

 

There are also instances where  black officers have killed white people.

 

This is very rare. How many in 2013/15?

 

 

And please, help me understand this - other minorities - Asians of different nationalities, Africans, Blacks from the Caribbean, seem to move on and become fully integrated into American society, but why is it that there is such a significant segment of the American black population that feel like they are out of the loop of the American dream?  (The Hispanics and Muslims present another problem, too many of them seem to want to integrate American society to them instead of the other way around.)

 

Move on from where? I'm puzzled with the idea of moving on.

 

Amadoo Dialo is from Ginea. He was killed 16 years ago by NYPD. You've heard of this case right?

Remarley Graham. Killed this year. His family is from Jamaica.

Patrice Dorismon born in Haiti. Killed 2000.

 

Again, where do you get your conclusions from? Do you have anything to support them? So American blacks, Hispanics and Muslims have a problems. Let's add Africans and Caribbeans since they have been the subject of unlawful killings too.

 

Who is left?......Asians.  http://reappropriate.co/?p=1332

 

Back in July 2006, Fong Lee, a 19-year-old Hmong-American living in Minnesota, was riding bikes with his friends when he was chased down and brutally shot several times — five of those bullets shot at close range while he was lying bleeding on the ground — by Jason Andersen.

Jason Andersen is not a drug dealer. He is not a gang member. Jason Andersen is a Minneapolis police officer.

 

When asked whether or not the respondent believed police were engaging in racial profiling, 51% of Asian Americans believed police racially profiled — and most harshly targeted Black Americans (as did 61% of Blacks) — while only 33% of Whites agreed with that statement.

 

 

As for changes for reform, what do the protesters, rioters, and arsonists want?

Interesting sentence. In your mind protestors are the same as rioters and arsonists. Does it really matter to you? Clearly it does not.  All they need to do in your mind is to be respectful and everything will be OK

[lazarus]

The unpopular truth I was referring to was  the finding of the grand jury, i.e. Brown did NOT have his arms up.  I don't believe the grand jury handed down their verdict without fleshing out the truth as they saw it based on the evidence presented. 

Here's your error: you have total trust in the American justice system.

 

More than 50 percent of the witness statements said that Michael Brown held his hands up when Darren Wilson shot him. (16 out of 29 such statements) Only five witness statements said that Brown reached toward his waist during the confrontation leading up to Wilson shooting him to death.

[lazarus]

We can go on and on arguing on whether Mr Brown had his arms up in the air (as if that is the only evidence before the grand jury)

We don't have to argue. What is clear is that you have complete trust in the American judicial system and so you will believe what you are told. Your experience will not lead you to conclude otherwise.

This is not about Sharpton or Jackson. It's about the Chaplain of the Senate standing up for justice. God bless him.

[GoLions]

 It's about the Chaplain of the Senate standing up for justice. God bless him.

What justice is he standing up for exactly?  Let's say Brown was guilty of what they say he was guilty of (and the physical evidence backs up).  What justice is the chaplain standing up for?  What steps is he asking for now? 

[GoLions]

 complete trust in the American judicial system and so you will believe what you are told. Your experience will not lead you to conclude otherwise.

 

Trust or complete trust?  Is there a better system than ours?  Is there a perfect system out there?  Do you want cases judged by popularity?  Do you want cases judged by the media?  Or social media?  How about just by race?  I know, by looks, who ever is uglier is the guilty one-or vice-verse.

[Gerr]

>>>And please, help me understand this - other minorities - Asians of different nationalities, Africans, Blacks from the Caribbean, seem to move on and become fully integrated into American society, but why is it that there is such a significant segment of the American black population that feel like they are out of the loop of the American dream?<<<

Could it be that those other minorities do not have a history of slavery in this country? Are you sure the other minorities are fully integrated into American Society? Is there data to back up that assumption?

 

>>>And please, help me understand this - other minorities - Asians of different nationalities, Africans, Blacks from the Caribbean, seem to move on and become fully integrated into American society, but why is it that there is such a significant segment of the American black population that feel like they are out of the loop of the American dream?<<<

Could it be that those other minorities do not have a history of slavery in this country? Are you sure the other minorities are fully integrated into American Society? Is there data to back up that assumption?  

Just my own observation.  You don't see any Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos fighting or rioting for rights, do you?  The Asians that I know are fully aware that the quickest way to become part of mainstream America is to get an education or a trade.  My father went to work in the sugar cane plantation in Hawaii after WWII. My two siblings and I managed to get a college education.  It took us longer than the usual because we had to work.  During summers while in high school, my brother worked in the pineapple plantations.  That REALLY motivated him!  Those of you who know what pineapple leaves are like would understand.  I have many relatives and acquaintances who have done the same.  We feel we are part of America.  

 

No doubt, slavery has something to do with it, but the blacks that come from the Caribbean are, by and large, descendants of slaves too. Yet the ones I have met are very competitive and motivated.  The Nigerians and Ghanaians here do not have the burden of slavery behind them, but they did suffer from white colonization too, and the few that  I have met are real go-getters.  . So a history of slavery cannot be the sole reason.  Then you have the GW Carvers, the Carsons, and the Barry Blacks and many others who who are/were from that same milieu who rise to prominence. And we have a president of color.

 

Is it possible that the way out of the despair of so many is not being emphasized enough?  That there are too many "race hustlers" who keep opening up old wounds. and keep them raw?  

[lazarus]

What justice is he standing up for exactly?  Let's say Brown was guilty of what they say he was guilty of (and the physical evidence backs up).  What justice is the chaplain standing up for?  What steps is he asking for now? 

If you are not aware of what the point is then you may never be aware. Even the most strident critics understand the point being made.

[lazarus]

Just my own observation.  You don't see any Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos fighting or rioting for rights, do you? 

Good point. Neither do many Africans or Caribbeans in the USA. First/Second generation Indians in the UK didn't riot either. 3rd generation did!

 

You do know that Koreans, Chinese and Filipinos actually riot. I think a little "skermish" has just been wrapped up by police in Hong Kong , or is this Ferguson?

 

[Kountzer]

The Mike Brown event, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Trayvon Martin, they all blend in together.  The protests are about all of those situations combined together.

[Kountzer]

I don't know.  I've heard it preached and taught many times and i believe it.  This world as we know it it quickly boiling down to four groups of people.  The dead in Christ, the dead not in Christ.  The living in Christ and the living not being led by the Spirit of Christ.  That's it.  All these racial and socio economic layers and classes are going to disappear.  There won't be all the un-educated thugs in hell, and the Doctors and lawyers in heaven.  There will be some of both that make it, and quite a few of both that don't.  So, while you are contemplating what american blacks are doing, and why they are so dysfunctional make sure you don't fall.   You may study and work & make enough $money to travel to the ends of this earth, but if you don't leave this earth and go to heaven when it is all said and done, you really haven't accomplished anything.

 

To a great extent the education system has been seriously flawed.  They would have you read and study Voltaire or some other atheist but keep you completely ignorant of the spirit of prophecy, or the bible.  The smartest persons in the world are no match for Satan.  My .02.

[lazarus]

What justice is he standing up for exactly?  Let's say Brown was guilty of what they say he was guilty of (and the physical evidence backs up).  What justice is the chaplain standing up for?  What steps is he asking for now? 

 

I'm glad you asked......

 

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/unmasking-Ferguson-witness-40-496236

 

Referred to only as “Witness 40” in grand jury material, the woman concocted a story that is now baked into the narrative of the Ferguson grand jury, a panel before which she had no business appearing.

 

http://gawker.com/darren-wilsons-key-witness-was-bipolar-racist-liar-1671681384

 

In a damning new report by the Smoking Gun, a crucial witness in the grand jury deciding whether to indict former Ferguson, Mo. police officer Darren Wilson is revealed as having fabricated her eyewitness account of the altercation between Wilson and unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown on Aug. 9. "Witness 40," identified as 45-year-old Sandra McElroy, has a documented history of racist remarks, criminal behavior, and mental illness.