Should We Abandon our 666 traditional Interpretation?

[stinsonmarri]

 

Our belief in "One God in THREE Persons". Most Trinitarians will agree with that statement as well.

 

A common view of it is -

 

BobRyan: I totally disagree with you and the reason is this does not make sense. YAHWEH, YAHSHUA and THE HOLY SPIRIT makes us separate individuals but they are one with three persons????? How on earth does that make sense. First of all we are suppose to be different then all of the other first day believers and other religions!  This is paganism all the way and we should be a sham that we are now siding with the Catholic Church. The Bible clearly states let US make man in OUR OWN IMAGE. So why would we take on the Greek philosophy and their false gods along with most pagan belief of a three headed god like person???? Why are we attempting to make THE ALMIGHTY FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT like us or some mythical creature. Do you know that the word person is meant here! 

What is hupostasis or hypostasis?

This is an interesting question. The Greek word hupotasso is of great significance in the history of Christian theology. It was used in an attempt to settle the debate over the nature of God, and, most specifically about the nature of the Son of God.

The writers of the Nicene Creed settled on the word hupostasis to describe the divinity of Jesus. They said that the Father and the Son are of the same hupostasis–the same essence. They are of the same essential nature.

I already know what THE DIVINITY OF YAHSHUA is it a DIVINE BEING as is HIS FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT! THEY are THREE SEPARATE BEINGS because they clearly state in in Gen 1:27 and YAHSHUA told Thomas to touch HIM after HE had risen. YAHSHUA still had the holes of the nails in HIS HANDS and Thomas felt HIM. Did YAHSHUA come through a door, yes HE did indeed. The problem with most is they do not understand that a spiritual being is tangible and can be seen and felt. The difference is the molecular structure of the body. We were immortal by what we ate the Tree of Life which sustain us!!!!! The Greeks came up with the word theos and the Europeans knows that this word in English means god. It is not nor does it mean what the word ELOHIM means, which is ALMIGHTY and YAHWEH clearly warn us not to use the mighty ones names. Ex 23:13 We are suppose to repairer of the breach, to restore the foundations and brings all back to the right paths. Isa 58:12 Instead we are following the same broad path, that our pioneers left! EGW was giving visions to start us back toward the mark of THE HIGH CALLING of YAHSHUA. But, instead we are going in the opposite direction, not correcting error but believing in it when it do not make sense.

Happy Sabbath and be bless!

[stinsonmarri]

Samie: You are correct about the meaning of the abomination, which the beast and his false image will become. The Time of Trouble is just before the coming of YAHSHUA, but most do not read all of Daniel 12. The Time of Trouble is exactly 3 1/2 years when the abomination will be set up claiming itself that he is both THE FATHER and THE SON! That is the first man to be worship as an idol, that we know is the Papacy. He and the city Jerusalem will be desolated for good by the final abomination and his false prophet USA, the one who claim they love Israel so much. Will destroy her to please the beast with a nuke and then an angel will complete the task for this really is the will of THE FATHER! Rev 17:17 This phase is the 1290 years subtracting 1260 years from it leaves 30 days which is the close of the Time of Trouble and the beginning of final probation of the earth! Then you subtract 1260 from 1335 gives you 75 days which 60 symbolically is an hour in prophetic terms found in Revelation. This is how long the beast will have to take out his opponent the one who originally train who had to be taken out the way! 2 Th 2:3 He is the man or son of perdition who will be destroyed with the Second Coming of YAHSHUA who the saint will here HIS arrival in 15 days! 

Happy Sabbath and be bless!

 

 

 

 

[Robert]

I don't think any of your are going to being checking to see if you calculations are right during the time of trouble.  It will be the last thing on your mind because you;ll feel abandoned by Christ.  At that time your biggest obstacle will be doubt.  You won't be looking to your performance; you won't be checking your prophetic calculation; you'll be shaking in your shoes (if you have any).  So why all this fuss now?  What will happen will happen.

[stinsonmarri]

 

True but the "the dragon gave him [the papacy] his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Revelation 13:2)

 

I cannot for the life of me see how we are so blind to this. First there are eight heads and the Bible declares that:

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Rev 17:11  

 

Why can't we see this is beyond me!!!!! Next the Bible clearly says that one of the heads was wounded and almost killed the beast! We know historically that the Papacy was taken and placed in prison in 1798! This stopped the beast or the true identity of the beast when this happen.

  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. Rev 13:3

Here is the big shocker how, can the papacy ride itself?????? We have preached for years she lost all of her vassal states and only reign with her small kingdom. She is the only Church folks that claims a kingdom and is a part of the United Nation. So she cannot be the Whore or the woman and the beast. Once again the Bible says so have you  not read it?

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Rev 17:11  

Have you ever asked yourself what does this mean? The beast is of the seven, which means folks he was a Catholic at one time. He is not anymore, he was to be her prodigy but he know her lies. He get his knowledge hello, from Satan the dragon as you yourself declared. The Bible and EGW wants you to see that there is less to say about the Papacy! Why? She has to answer for her sins and Satan has the ultimate man and leaves the Papacy cold as he had done others all through the Bible. Once he gets them to do his bidding, then he moves on to someone else. Why is that so hard to understand? The proof is right here:

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with THE LAMB, and THE LAMB shall overcome them: for he is MASTERS of masters, and KING of kings: and they that are with HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful.  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.   And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.  For ELOHIM hath put in their hearts to fulfil HIS Will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the Words of ELOHIM shall be fulfilled. Rev 17:12-17

 

Here is the historical facts, that you can check out! The Papacy has being trying for centuries to rule in Jerusalem. Three crusades out of many were highly notice especially two of them. The Catholic had control of Jerusalem, but as you know Islam was on the rise.  The third crusade known as the "kings Crusade, changed in favor the Muslims or Islam. Saladin, Sultan of both Egypt and Syria took Jerusalem back. There were more crusades and the Latin controlled Jerusalem for close to two hundred years. Mainly fighting with Islam and against the Papacy who wanted full control of the city. It was never completely under Catholicy control. However, now that the false Jews who themselves state they are not Hebrews but from Japheth. They fulfilled the prophecy that ELOHIM declared through Noah. It amazing to me that slavery of the Afrikan people were made by a lie in this same chapter. The Canaanites were to be servant of servant to his brothers and not to his uncles. The Canaanites never ruled the children of his brothers, but always paid tribute to them. They ruled over the Canaanites. Shem and Japheth have controlled them even today. The Chinese even today is control by Japheth stock market and now his money is failing. The Asian people are the Canaanites and it is known today without a doubt. They belong to Ham and the language today is call the Afro-Asiatic languages!

But, Gen 9:27, made it clear that Japheth would dwell in the tents of Shem and that folks is a fact! The people who calls themselves Jews make it clear they are Ashkenazi's! Read it for yourself! So Jerusalem has been in the control of Japheth children who also became Muslims!!!!! But the Papacy wants Jerusalem and Rev 11:1-3 proves that now he will rule very soon. These Jews have no ties to the temple mound has it has been proven! The Christian religions have claim these people as ELOHIM'S chosen people and they are not! They will join with the Catholic church, rebuild the temple but for him for only a while to sit in it. It will be the beast who will fight with the Papacy in the final earthly war the battle of Armageddon, after the Papacy is out of the way, the beast will attempt to make war with the LAMB.  I will stop here to let all digest on this information, but the proof is right in the Scriptures, line upon line precept upon precept and here a little and there a little is what the Bible states, please read!!!!!!!!! Always pray for THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead you into all truth!

Blessings!

 

 

 

 

 

[Samie]

It will be the beast who will fight with the Papacy in the final earthly war the battle of Armageddon, after the Papacy is out of the way, the beast will attempt to make war with the LAMB.  I will stop here to let all digest on this information, but the proof is right in the Scriptures, line upon line precept upon precept and here a little and there a little is what the Bible states, please read!!!!!!!!! Always pray for THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead you into all truth!

I believe the Bible depicts the battle of Armageddon as the final phase of God's wrath - the 7 last plagues (Rev 15:1; 16:16-19; 19:15). Before the start of the outpouring of the plagues, the saints are ushered to heaven for the wedding of the Lamb, to take place after the harlot receives her judgement (Rev 15:1-7; 19:1-8).  The battle of Armageddon will be fought after the wedding has taken place in heaven, and the Lamb with His Bride - the saints, together with the armies of heaven come down to earth for that final war (Rev 19:9-16). In that war, the armies of the wicked under the command of the beast and his false prophet will be defeated. The beast and his false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire; all the other wicked will be slain (Rev 19:17-21).

[JoeMo]

I believe the Bible depicts the battle of Armageddon as the final phase of God's wrath - the 7 last plagues (Rev 15:1; 16:16-19; 19:15). Before the start of the outpouring of the plagues, the saints are ushered to heaven for the wedding of the Lamb, to take place after the harlot receives her judgement (Rev 15:1-7; 19:1-8).  The battle of Armageddon will be fought after the wedding has taken place in heaven, and the Lamb with His Bride - the saints, together with the armies of heaven come down to earth for that final war (Rev 19:9-16). In that war, the armies of the wicked under the command of the beast and his false prophet will be defeated. The beast and his false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire; all the other wicked will be slain (Rev 19:17-21).

I disagree.  The final phase of God's wrath comes 1,000 years later - after the millennium and "the rest of the dead' are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement;  and satan gathers those who still imagine that they can defeat El Shaddai.  Then the Great Day of the Lord Almighty will occur; and THEN satan, death, sin, and all those whose names are not in the Book of Life are destroyed.  Read Revelation 20.

Edited August 24, 2015 by JoeMo

[Samie]

I believe the Bible depicts the battle of Armageddon as the final phase of God's wrath - the 7 last plagues (Rev 15:1; 16:16-19; 19:15).

I disagree.  The final phase of God's wrath comes 1,000 years later - after the millennium and "the rest of the dead' are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement;  and satan gathers those who still imagine that they can defeat El Shaddai.  Then the Great Day of the Lord Almighty will occur; and THEN satan, death, sin, and all those whose names are not in the Book of Life are destroyed.  Read Revelation 20.

I guess I have read from the Bible that the 7 last plagues is the completion of God's wrath:

^NAS Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

I want to know how a finished wrath will yet be finished 1000 years later.

[JoeMo]

I want to know how a finished wrath will yet be finished 1000 years later.

C'mon, Samie; you can read as well as I can.  Like I said; read Revelation 20:  In Summary:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison ⁸ and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. ⁹ They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. ¹⁰ And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev. 20: 7-10)

Sounds like wrath to me; but you can feel free to call it whatever you want to call it.

 

[Kevin H]

. YAHWEH, YAHSHUA and THE HOLY SPIRIT

Technically it would be ELOHIM, YAHWEH/YAHSHUA and THE HOLY SPIRIT. The Old Testament "Elohim" or "El" is more God the Father God as power and Yahweh is the personality/friend which became Jesus.

[stinsonmarri]

I believe the Bible depicts the battle of Armageddon as the final phase of God's wrath - the 7 last plagues (Rev 15:1; 16:16-19; 19:15). Before the start of the outpouring of the plagues, the saints are ushered to heaven for the wedding of the Lamb, to take place after the harlot receives her judgement (Rev 15:1-7; 19:1-8).  The battle of Armageddon will be fought after the wedding has taken place in heaven, and the Lamb with His Bride - the saints, together with the armies of heaven come down to earth for that final war (Rev 19:9-16). In that war, the armies of the wicked under the command of the beast and his false prophet will be defeated. The beast and his false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire; all the other wicked will be slain (Rev 19:17-21).

                                                                                         PART ONE

Here again, we need to read what the Bible said clearly under the sixth plagues. However you are lost and confuse and did not read exactly what Rev 16:15 stated:

  Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Rev 16:15

The Text is very clear, YAHSHUA will come as a thief. Nothing in this Text applies YAHSHUA dealing with the beast. Instead, HE is talking to those who are righteous that watches, keeps their garments so they will not walk naked and be a shame! Now it is important to understand that the plagues are being poured out on the wicked here. Two things are important that are mentioned about why these plagues are poured out in this verse:

 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. Rev 16:6 

The beast have not arrived on the scene as most claimed because he ascends the Bible said from the "bottomless pit." This is where Adventist should have prayed to receive understanding from THE HOLY SPIRIT. Instead, we have taken the old Protestant view, when clearly EGW told us to study to correct error that were reveal to her or the pioneers at that time. We also do not believe how to study the Bible, we say it, but do not put it to use.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Isa 28:10  

In order to understand the Bible, it deals with subjects that have to be put together from the OT and the NT. Prophecies in Rev have their beginning in Daniel and it appears we will not do what we preach. Daniel was told to close the book until the time of the end and it would be revealed. The Book of Revelation means what is to be revealed.

The Revelation of YAHSHUA THE MESSIAH, which ELOHIM THE FATHER gave unto HIM, to shew unto HIS servants things which must shortly come to pass; and HE sent and signified it by HIS angel unto his servant John:  Who bare record of the word of ELOHIM THE FATHER, and of the TESTIMONY of YAHSHUA THE MESSIAH, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1:1-3  

SPIRIT ELOHIM has illuminated every page of Holy Writ, but there are those upon whom it makes little impression, because it is imperfectly understood. When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness.... Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. THE HOLY SPIRIT, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth....

There is need of a much closer study of the Word of ELOHIM; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; TM p. 112

Now what does the bottomless pit means? Let's look at the word a little closer and not used the interpretation of man. The Bible needs to be understood and not interpreted! What is bottomless? The American Heritage Dictionary defines it clearly: "having no bottom." What is so hard for us not to see this in the word? Now we must understand what is meant by a pit? Most believes it mean a hole in the ground or where evil angels and the devil is. However, they want to place these numerous angels imprison down in a deep hole on earth called hell. Sad, Adventist believes this nonsense as well. A pit symbolizes darkness and put having no bottom is so simple out of space!!!!! It has no bottom and it looks lit a pit folks. And the ancient were correct it does house a place where the angels are in prison, most are. Only a few are release but to be with each person born as the guardian angels are of THE MOST HIGH is assign. The only evil angel who is freed to wander to his dark kingdom and the earth is Satan! Oh I have proof of that to by the Bible first and then EGW!

The earth is YAHWEH'S, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. Psa 24:1 

 

 And YAHWEH said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered YAHWEH ELOHIM (THE SON), and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 1:7 

Again, the devil taketh HIM up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto HIM, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Mat 4:8, 9

 

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, HE hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the Great day. Jude 1:6  

 

 

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. Rev 13:2  

Satan stood in amazement at his new condition. His happiness was gone. He looked upon the angels who, with him, were once so happy, but who had been expelled from Heaven with him. Before their fall, not a shade of discontent had marred their perfect bliss. Now all seemed changed. Countenances which had reflected THE IMAGE of their MAKER were gloomy and despairing. Strife, discord, and bitter recrimination, were among them. Previous to their rebellion these things had been unknown in Heaven. Satan now beholds the terrible results of his rebellion. He shuddered, and feared to face the future, and to contemplate the end of these things.

The hour for joyful, happy songs of praise to ELOHIM and HIS Dear SON had come. Satan had led the Heavenly choir. He had raised the first note, then all the angelic host united with him, and glorious strains of music had resounded through Heaven in honor of ELOHIM and HIS Dear SON. But now, instead of strains of sweetest music, discord and angry words fall upon the ear of the great rebel leader. Where was he? Was it not all a horrible dream? Was he shut out of Heaven? Were the gates of Heaven never more to open and admit him? The hour of worship draws nigh, when bright and holy angels bow before THE FATHER. No more will he unite in Heavenly song. No more will he bow in reverence and Holy awe before the PRESENCE of THE ETERNAL YAHWHEH ELOHIM. Could he be again as he was when he was pure, true and loyal, gladly would he yield up the claims of his authority. But he was lost! beyond redemption, for his presumptuous rebellion!

And this was not all; he had led others to rebellion and to the same lost condition with himself--angels, who had never thought to question the will of Heaven, or refuse obedience to the Law of ELOHIM till he had put it into their minds, presenting before them that they might enjoy a greater good, a higher and more glorious liberty. This had been the sophistry whereby he had deceived them. A responsibility now rests upon him from which he would fain be released.

These spirits had become turbulent with disappointed hopes. Instead of greater good, they were experiencing the sad results of disobedience and disregard of Law. Never more would these unhappy beings be swayed by the mild rule of MICHAEL. Never more would their spirits be stirred by the deep, earnest love, peace, and joy, which HIS PRESENCE had ever inspired in them, to be returned to HIM in cheerful obedience and reverential honor.

Satan trembled as he viewed his work. He was alone in meditation upon the past, the present, and his future plans. His mighty frame shook as with a tempest. An angel from Heaven was passing. He called him, and entreated an interview with MICHAEL. This was granted him. He then related to THE SON ELOHIM that he repented of his rebellion, and wished again the favor of YAHWEH ELOHIM. He was willing to take the place YAHWEH ELOHIM had previously assigned him, and be under HIS Wise Command. MICHAEL wept at Satan's woe, but told him, as THE MIND of YAHWEH ELOHIM, that he could never be received into Heaven. Heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All Heaven would be marred should he be received back; for sin and rebellion originated with him. The seeds of rebellion were still within him. He had, in his rebellion, no occasion for his course, and he had not only hopelessly ruined himself, but the host of angels also, who would then have been happy in Heaven had he remained steadfast. The Law of YAHWEH ELOHIM could condemn, but could not pardon.

He repented not of his rebellion because he saw the goodness of YAHWEH ELOHIM which he had abused. It was not possible that his love for YAHWEH ELOHIM had so increased since his fall that it would lead to cheerful submission and happy obedience to HIS Law which had been despised. The wretchedness he realized in losing the sweet light of Heaven, and the sense of guilt which forced itself upon him, and the disappointment he experienced himself in not finding his expectations realized, were the cause of his grief. To be commander out of Heaven, was vastly different from being thus honored in Heaven. The loss he had sustained of all the privileges of Heaven seemed too much to be borne. He wished to regain these.

This great change of position had not increased his love for YAHWEH ELOHIM, nor for HIS Wise and Just Law. When Satan become fully convinced that there was no possibility of his being re-instated in the favor of YAHWEH  ELOHIM, he manifested his malice with increased hatred and fiery vehemence.

His followers were seeking him; and he aroused himself and, assuming a look of defiance, informed them of his plans to wrest from ELOHIM the noble Adam and his companion Eve. If he could, in any way, beguile them to disobedience, ELOHIM would make some provision whereby they might be pardoned, and then himself and all the fallen angels would be in a fair way to share with them of ELOHIM'S mercy. If this should fail, they could unite with Adam and Eve; for when once they should transgress the Law of ELOHIM, they would be subjects of ELOHIM's Wrath, like themselves. Their transgression would place them also, in a state of rebellion; and they could unite with Adam and Eve, take possession of Eden, and hold it as their home. And if they could gain access to the Tree of Life in the midst of the garden, their strength would, they thought, be equal to that of the holy angels, and even ELOHIM himself could not expel them.

Satan held a consultation with his evil angels. They did not all readily unite to engage in this hazardous and terrible work. He told them that he would not entrust any one of them to accomplish this work; for he thought that he alone had wisdom sufficient to carry forward so important an enterprise. He wished them to consider the matter while he should leave them and seek retirement, to mature his plans. He sought to impress upon them that this was their last and only hope. If they failed here, all prospect of regaining and controlling Heaven, or any part of ELOHIM'S Creation, was hopeless.

Satan went alone to mature plans that would most surely secure the fall of Adam and Eve. He had fears that his purposes might be defeated. And again, even if he should be successful in leading Adam and Eve to disobey the Commandment of ELOHIM, and thus become transgressors of HIS Law, and no good come to himself, his own case would not be improved; his guilt would only be increased.

He shuddered at the thought of plunging the holy, happy pair into the misery and remorse he was himself enduring. He seemed in a state of indecision; at one time firm and determined, then hesitating and wavering. His angels were seeking him, their leader, to acquaint him with their decision. They will unite with Satan in his plans, and with him bear the responsibility, and share the consequences.

 Satan cast off his feelings of despair and weakness, and, as their leader, fortified himself to brave out the matter, and do all in his power to defy the authority of ELOHIM and HIS SON. He acquainted them with his plans. If he should come boldly upon Adam and Eve and make complaints of ELOHIM'S OWN SON, they would not listen to him for a moment, but would be prepared for such an attack. Should he seek to intimidate them because of his power, so recently an angel in high authority, he could accomplish nothing. He decided that cunning and deceit would do what might, or force, could not. 1SP p. 28-32

Now I know you all have never read this, if you did you would understand Daniel and Revelation and know there no such thing as hell! You would know exactly what the bottomless pit meant and that Satan and his angels were kick out before this earth was made. You would know that the Greek word "ge" does not mean earth but a place MICHAEL ELOHIM placed them. This place had land mass or soil, which is what the Greek word mean look it  up yourself and see! I gave this first so you would understand the rest. I will continue on Part 2 tomorrow, its late!

Be bless!

 

 

 

 

 

[Samie]

C'mon, Samie; you can read as well as I can.  Like I said; read Revelation 20:  In Summary:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison ⁸ and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. ⁹ They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. ¹⁰ And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev. 20: 7-10)

Sounds like wrath to me; but you can feel free to call it whatever you want to call it.

Yes, it sounds like wrath, but I think the Bible says that in the 7 last plagues, God's wrath found completion, NOT forever and ever:

^NAS Revelation 15:1 And I saw ^aanother sign in heaven, great and marvelous, ^bseven angels who had ^cseven plagues, which are ^dthe last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

 

^NIV Revelation 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues-- last, because with them God's wrath is completed.

 

^NKJ Revelation 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.

But yes, you can call it wrath although I have not found anywhere in Rev 20 that the lake of fire is wrath.

[Samie]

Hi stinsonmarri;

I think the 7 last plagues will be poured upon the wicked after the righteous have been ushered to heaven (see Rev 15:1-7). This is after the Second Coming, because the righteous are already singing in the sea of glass in heaven. Preparation for the battle of Armageddon is during the 6th plague (see Rev 16:12-16).   In the 7th plague, AFTER the harlot had received her judgment, the wedding occurs in heaven (Rev 16:18, 19; 19:1, 2). After the wedding, both the bride and the groom return to earth with the armies of heaven to fight the final battle - the battle of Armageddon which I consider as the concluding event of the 7 last plagues, the completion of God's wrath.

[LifeHiscost]

.  So why all this fuss now?  What will happen will happen.

Why then this advice below Robert, especially when we have the biblical example of the tower of Babel revealing man's effort in the past to work out their own problems, indicating a need to establish a close relationship with Jesus as Lord of one's own life, that then one can live without quaking in their boots.

And you were like a firebrand snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me," declares the LORD. 12"Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel; Because I will do this to you, Prepare to meet your God, O Israel." ....Amos 4

Below is an excerpt from White horse media which might be of interest  to those who wish to be covered by the righteousness of Jesus, since those days are right upon us

 

RED ALERT. Pope Francis New Encyclical. THE SUNDAY SOLUTION

 

Dear friend of White Horse Media,

I’m writing this from a hotel is Christmas Valley, Oregon, where I am about to speak five times about getting ready for earth’s closing events. The much-anticipated papal encyclical on climate change was released today worldwide. The media is all over this, and so are we at White Horse Media. As we expected (as stated during our May 7 LIVE 2-hour interview on 3ABN, and in our bold sharing newsletter, “The Time is at Hand!“) the Pope’s new encyclical makes a strong appeal for people all over the world to keep Sunday as a day of rest.

 

The media may not be reporting on the Sunday issue at this moment, but we know what is coming. Today our “Time is at Hand!” 4-color newsletter will be updated to include these paragraphs:

On June 18, 2015, Pope Francis’ 183-page encyclical addressing climate change was released worldwide. Its title, “Praised Be You,” is based on St. Francis of Assisi’s ancient poetic “Canticle of the Sun.” After bemoaning “the breakdown of society” because of humanity’s misguided materialism, secularism, and environmental negligence, Pope Francis seeks to bring “the whole human family together” and help save the planet

• through a resurrection of spirituality and returning to God. Now don’t miss this. Nestled firmly within this 183-page encyclical is a definite appeal from Pope Francis to the entire world to find “a new start” by keeping Sunday as a day of rest.
• “Sunday, like the Jewish Sabbath, is meant to be a day which heals our relationships with God, with ourselves, with others and with the world,” penned the Pope. “In this way, Christian spirituality incorporates the value of relaxation and festivity” (Praised Be You,section 237). The fatal flaw of such reasoning is that Sunday isn’t the true Sabbath, but is rather a Roman Catholic institution rooted in idolatrous ancient sun worship. No matter what Sunday advocates claim, the Ten Commandments “written with the finger of God” (Exodus 31:18) state clearly that “the seventh day” (Exodus 20:10) is God’s “holy day” (Isaiah 58:13). Sunday is Rome’s day-a mark of its own authority.
• Deadly natural disasters. Bizarre weather. Threatened food supply. Global warming. Working together. The common good. Saving the planet. “A new start.” “Sunday.” All of this shows that conditions are ripe for global Sunday legislation as a misguided, apparently “moral,” and supposedly “God-oriented” solution to humanity’s deepening woes. But whatever is promoted in God’s name doesn’t necessarily come from His throne. ISIS shows us that.
• Bottom line: The stage is set for the mark of the beast.

   

3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.…2 Thessalonians 2

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gene Fortner]

We should not use arguments that have some evidence to suggest that they are false, even if we believe them to be true.

The VFD of the 666 has reason to be rejected as false.  We should do better and only use arguments that have better support and evidence than this one. 

We should never base our beliefs on just one argument.

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/666.htm

[Gregory Matthews]

I am well aware of the arguments for and against the use of the VFD term.   I am simply saying that we should not use an argument that is not carefully based upon documented evidence  Whether true or not, the VFD argument has its problems.. 

Here is just one of the arguments made against it by the SDA Scholar, Dr. Bacchiocchi.

NOTE:  I copied it form the URL provided by Gene Fortner.

THE NUMERICAL INTERPRETATION OF VICARIUS FILII DEI IS NEGATED 1) EXEGETICALLY; by the fact that Revelation 13:18, speak of a HUMAN NUMBER, not the number of a personal name.  Moreover the number is not on the forehead of the beast, but of his followers. Nowhere the Bible uses GEMATRIA to interpret numbers. 2) HISTORICALLY, VICARIUS FILII DEI was NOT the most common name of the pope. the common name is VICARIUS CHRISTI - VICAR OF CHRIST.  In the history of our Adventist church our early pioneers, including Ellen White, believed that 666 was the number of Protestant sects influenced by Rome. It was Uriah Smith that introduced VICARIUS FILII DEI on the basis of stories he heard about the pope's title on the tiara. 3) ORIGINAL READERS are urged to understand the mark, name, and number.  They could have never understood a Latin name that was coined eight centuries later. 4) FINAL CONFLICT over false worship enforced by the false trinity, encompasses far more than the papacy. Michael, if you are blinded by tradition and do not wish to open your mind, please do not contact me anymore.  There is no reason why I should waste my time for a person who want to argue, without first doing the home work or reading the research of competent and dedicated scholars. PLEASE STOP WASTING MY TIME.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Gregory Matthews

[Gus Foster]

May I recommend Edwin de Kock's three volume set entitled; "The Truth About 666 and the Story of the Great Apostasy." It is by far the most extension and exhaustive work ever accomplished on the subject of 666 and by one of Adventist's most distinguished scholars. One can obtain the set for $30 plus postage-- edwdekock@hotmail.com  

[Stan]

Which one of the 28 support this re the pope and 666?

[Ron Lambert]

First of all, the number six symbolizes mankind, since man was created on the sixth day of Creation week. The number 666 would logically be an emphatic use of this same symbol. It is a fully developed human system that is symbolized, a system that will characterize itself as a "holy order." The mark of the beast is the mark of creature worship, as opposed to worship of the Creator, which conflict is the underlying theme in much of the book of Revelation.

It is not logically appropriate to apply the "666" directly to the Papacy, because the Papacy is not the Beast, per se--the hierarchical Papacy (which itself is a ursurper, that hijacked the Christian Church of Rome), is "the Woman" who rides the Beast, as depicted in Revelation 17. The Beast, properly speaking, is the political entity comprised of the nations of Europe that for a time allow itself to be directed by the Papal authority. That political entity is what will seek to have the world show worshipful deference to itself (to it's supposed "holy order"), by observing the false sabbath instituted solely on the authority of the Papacy. By this means they will seek to unify all humanity and all religions, and any who maintain the true Sabbath will be denounced as traitors and rebels. The second beast of Revelation 13, which is apostate Protestantism (that has forsaken its original calling), will seek to require that all the world worship the European church-state union, and copy what was done in Europe by also combining church with state throughout the world. When this is done in America, by the enactment of a National Sunday Law, that will constitute the creation of the "Image to the Beast." That is when the Judgment of the Living begins, and the Mark of the Beast assigned to those who worship the image to the beast by worshipfully exalting the church-state union that is opposed to the true religion of God.

But the heart of the rebellion against God will be exalting the supposed righteousness of the creature in place of the Righteousness of the Creator. This is the real spiritual lesson of the 666 in Revelation 13. The church is not our righteousness, the Lord is our Righteousness. The new world order that is coming will not be our righteousness. The Lord alone is our righteousness. This will be the final decision that every soul must make before the Close of Human Probation.

[hch]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2015 at 10:22 AM, Stan said:

Which one of the 28 support this re the pope and 666?

My understanding is evolving on this.

If the #666 is the papacy (and it is) then it also has to be the # of the image beast also

 or the image beast would not truly be an image of the beast.   

 

[Raphael]

How bout this link?

http://biblelight.net/vicarius-filii-dei-documentation.htm

It's narrates about a team with mission to uncover that Vicarius Fili Dei Catholic existance usage.. Which sounded more like a detective hunt story..

This one too:

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_beast_666_Vicarius-Filii-Dei