pnattmbtc Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 No, as I have told you earlier. As to your No answer, I am reposting here my earlier post in the other thread: I answered your question. If the answer "no" isn't clear, then you should have asked your question more clearly. I gave you a complete answer, not a "yes or no" answer, and you complained that I didn't answer your question. So I answered your question with one word, which seemed to be what you wanted, and you're still not happy. Please answer my question. What is your point? Why are you asking about Isaiah? You said it has something to do with inspiration. What does it have to do with inspiration? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 I answered your question. If the answer "no" isn't clear, then you should have asked your question more clearly. I gave you a complete answer, not a "yes or no" answer, and you complained that I didn't answer your question. So I answered your question with one word, which seemed to be what you wanted, and you're still not happy. Please answer my question. What is your point? Why are you asking about Isaiah? You said it has something to do with inspiration. What does it have to do with inspiration? Reposting here my reply posted in the other thread: Since you don't object to what I thought you really meant by your "No" answer, I will take your non-objection as saying "Yes" when I asked: "Do I understand you correctly that you mean the Holy Spirit inspired the prophet Isaiah to write he has seen God with his own eyes but did NOT inspire John to write no man has seen God at anytime?" Then your "Yes" explains why I presented what prophet Isaiah has written. By default, you are saying, the Holy Spirit did not inspire John to write no man has seen God at anytime. And since his confession requirement is not at par with what was revealed to Him in Revelation, that confession statement is at par with his "no man has seen God at anytime" statement. But that does not mean all he has written are not at par with the totality of Scriptures. Just like Peter when he wrote of Christ preaching to disobedient spirits in prison in the days of Noah. That does not make all that Peter wrote to be not at par with the totality of Scriptures. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Reposting here my reply posted in the other thread: Since you don't object to what I thought you really meant by your "No" answer, I will take your non-objection as saying "Yes" when I asked: "Do I understand you correctly that you mean the Holy Spirit inspired the prophet Isaiah to write he has seen God with his own eyes but did NOT inspire John to write no man has seen God at anytime?" Then your "Yes" explains why I presented what prophet Isaiah has written. By default, you are saying, the Holy Spirit did not inspire John to write no man has seen God at anytime. And since his confession requirement is not at par with what was revealed to Him in Revelation, that confession statement is at par with his "no man has seen God at anytime" statement. But that does not mean all he has written are not at par with the totality of Scriptures. Just like Peter when he wrote of Christ preaching to disobedient spirits in prison in the days of Noah. That does not make all that Peter wrote to be not at par with the totality of Scriptures. You shouldn't have tried to put words in my mouth, but thankfully, you got to your point! You perceive there to be different levels of Scripture, if I'm understanding you correctly. That's very interesting, and I would like to know more of how you perceive this. Are there any books which are at the top? (I mean the whole book). Or do all of the books have portions that are higher and lower (like what Peter wrote about the spirits in prison). You've given an example of what goes on the lower level (Peter's statement about spirits in prison), but not what goes on the top. What's an example of something on the top level? Also, how many levels are there? Only two? Something which is ok, and something which is lesser? Or are there more than two levels? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 You shouldn't have tried to put words in my mouth, but thankfully, you got to your point! You perceive there to be different levels of Scripture, if I'm understanding you correctly. That's very interesting, and I would like to know more of how you perceive this. Are there any books which are at the top? (I mean the whole book). Or do all of the books have portions that are higher and lower (like what Peter wrote about the spirits in prison). You've given an example of what goes on the lower level (Peter's statement about spirits in prison), but not what goes on the top. What's an example of something on the top level? Also, how many levels are there? Only two? Something which is ok, and something which is lesser? Or are there more than two levels? Already addressed in the other thread. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Already addressed in the other thread. I don't think so. This is a different question. Here I asked if there are more than two levels. I didn't ask that in the other thread, and you didn't address it. From what you wrote, I'm guessing you perceive two levels. One would be what you think is correct, which would be "on a par with the totality of Scripture", and the other would be what you think is incorrect, which consists of 1 verse in Peter, 1 verse in 1 John, and 2 verses in John. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Actually if you think John 1:18 is wrong, you'd probably think John 6:46 is wrong too. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. You think this is not on a par with the totality of Scripture, because it disagrees with Isaiah, correct? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 I don't think so. This is a different question. Here I asked if there are more than two levels. I didn't ask that in the other thread, and you didn't address it. From what you wrote, I'm guessing you perceive two levels. One would be what you think is correct, which would be "on a par with the totality of Scripture", and the other would be what you think is incorrect, which consists of 1 verse in Peter, 1 verse in 1 John, and 2 verses in John. You're the one making up the levels, not me. Quote
Samie Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 Actually if you think John 1:18 is wrong, you'd probably think John 6:46 is wrong too. You think this is not on a par with the totality of Scripture, because it disagrees with Isaiah, correct? Wrong. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Wrong. Why? The both say that no man has seen God, but only Jesus. How could John 1:18 be wrong, but not John 6:46? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 You're the one making up the levels, not me. You said that what John and Peter wrote were not on a par of the totality of Scripture. These are two levels. One is "on a part of the totality of Scripture" and the other is not. I didn't make this up. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 Why? The both say that no man has seen God, but only Jesus. How could John 1:18 be wrong, but not John 6:46? John 6:46 not only does not have "at anytime" but also says "save he which is of God". There is an exception in 6:46; none in the other two. Quote
Samie Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 You said that what John and Peter wrote were not on a par of the totality of Scripture. These are two levels. One is "on a part of the totality of Scripture" and the other is not. I didn't make this up. That's it. For you there are different levels. I respect your position. Respect mine when I believe they are on the same level. Just like a roadway. One part may be of concrete, the other of asphalt. Yet they are on the same surface level. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 John 6:46 not only does not have "at anytime" but also says "save he which is of God". There is an exception in 6:46; none in the other two. By exception you mean Jesus Himself. In Isaiah, Isaiah says he saw "the Lord". I'm quoting from a random web site, to save typing, and because the explanation is decent: In John chapter 12 verse 41 there is a reference to Isaiah 6 where Isaiah saw the Lord the King of the whole earth. Jesus said these things and went off and hid from them. Although he had performed so many signs before them, they were not putting faith in him, so that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, who said: “Jehovah, who has put faith in the thing heard from us? And as for the arm of Jehovah, to whom has it been revealed?” The reason why they were not able to believe is that again Isaiah said: “He has blinded their eyes and has made their hearts hard, so that they would not see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn around and I heal them.” Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him. All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue; for they loved the glory of men even more than the glory of God. John 12:36-43 In the context it is clear that John believes Jesus is the LORD who Isaiah saw in Isaiah chapter 6. In John 6:46 it doesn't have to say "at anytime" because the "at anytime" is understood. For example, if I wrote, "No one has seen the Patriots win the super bowl", you couldn't says "I saw them win last year" because I didn't say, "No one has seen the Patriots win the superbowl at any time.". It anyone had ever seen the Patriots win the super bowl, my statement would be false, and the same applies to John 6:46. Regarding Jesus Himself being an exception, this is clear in John 1:18, simply be reading the verse. John speaks of Christ's divinity throughout the book, and speaks of Christ's roles as the One who reveals the Father. This is an important theme; actually this is *the* important theme of John. Everything John writes concerns this central idea, that Christ is the revelation of the Father. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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