Will the redeemed be on this earth for the last plagues?

[8thdaypriest]

I just posted a revised study titled "The Secret Rapture" on my website.  It also has a lot about the time periods, from Daniel and Revelation.  The study may be of help to those who want to argue (from Scripture) against a "secret" rapture.

Here's the link:  http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/zz-f-Rapture.pdf

[brotherly love]

I remember a few things from Great Controversy. 

"A single angel destroyed all the first-born of the Egyptians and filled the land with mourning.  When David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused that terrible destruction by which his sin was punished.  The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits.  There are forces now ready and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere." GC pg 614

Mrs. White says that evil angels cause the last plagues, before the deliverance of the redeemed. 

On page 628, she says, "These plagues are not universal, or the inhabitants of the earth would be wholly cut off.  Yet they will be the most awful scourges that have ever been known to mortals." 

This statement is almost enough to make me believe she was inspired.  She "saw" the Trumpet plagues.  How do I know that? 

Because the trumpets are NOT universal.  They effect 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. 

I said in another post, that I believe the TRUMPETS are Satan's plagues, in an effort to deceive people into believing that He is Christ come.   Every man on the street has heard of the 7 last plagues.  So Satan will supply them. 

The VIAL plagues ARE UNIVERSAL !!!  They will completely destroy the earth and wipe out all life.  

Second Bowl:  Every living thing in the sea dies (Rev. 16:3).  

    If the ocean no longer supports life, there is no food chain.  
    There is also little oxygen, because sea vegetation produces 75% of our oxygen.

Third Bowl:  All of the rivers and all of the springs of water become like blood.
    They will not support life (Rev. 16:4).

Fifth Bowl:  Darkness will cover the “kingdom of the beast” (Rev. 16:10).  

    The beast power rules the entire earth - therefore this plague of darkness will be universal. 

Seventh Bowl: “Every island fled away and the mountains were not found."  "every mountain and island was moved out of its place".  THAT's UNIVERSAL !

An earthquake with the power to break apart every known fault over the face of the entire earth.  I would imagine several super volcano's will also erupt.  If the “sky” is parted, or “rolled up like a scroll,” (Rev. 6:14, Isa. 34:4) that suggests our atmosphere may be disrupted.  If the oceans are vaporized into space, that would leave the planet dry and lifeless.

With no clean air, no water, no food, severe heat then darkness, and then an asteroid shower, while the surface of the earth is broken up - do you really think there could be any human life left on this planet!? NO!!!

This shoulkd create a pause for many people to understand that they are not reading apocalyptic genre correctly-especially when the beginning of revelation says these things are to signify. The apocalypse of John is not secret like others in the genre-the symbols are contained in the Old Testament.

[brotherly love]

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob's trouble, But he shall be saved out of it. (NKJ)

The "time of Jacob's trouble" will be the "time, times, and a part" (1260 days, 42 months) during which the saints are "given into his hand" (Dan. 7:25)  That time ENDs with the pronouncement of the Heavenly Court, giving dominion to Christ and His saints.

  

The problem here is that you have trampled another prophesy about Jesus in the first advent. We are all in anticipation of the second advent, but we cant revise the Bible to make up scenarios. This is just not truth

The context is the coming Babylonian captivity and the restoration from this. This is Jacobs trouble. Notice that it is towards both Judah and Israel. Israel was exiled by Assyria, and then Babylon absorbed Assyria and the exiles from the northern kingdom.

This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: ² “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you. ³ The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity^[a] and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

⁴ These are the words the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah: ⁵ “This is what the Lord says:

“‘Cries of fear are heard—
    terror, not peace.
⁶ Ask and see:
    Can a man bear children?
Then why do I see every strong man
    with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor,
    every face turned deathly pale?
⁷ How awful that day will be!
    No other will be like it.
It will be a time of trouble for Jacob,
    but he will be saved out of it.

⁸ “‘In that day,’ declares the Lord Almighty,
    ‘I will break the yoke off their necks
and will tear off their bonds;
    no longer will foreigners enslave them.
⁹ Instead, they will serve the Lord their God
    and David their king,
    whom I will raise up for them.

[JoeMo]

I do not have a Scripture reference. But I do have  quotes from EGW:

Sorry; but EGW quotes hold no sway over me unless they are backed up by scripture. I see no evidence in scripture that to suggest that all followers of Sunday Christians, believers in Judaism, and the followers of Islam, well, the whole world will be rapidly converted to keep Sunday, either.  To me, the changing of laws and times could just as easily apply to an end-time Islamic Caliphate coercing the world into keeping Friday and conforming to Sharia law.  I don't see the papacy currently beheading people in the Middle East.

EGW interpreted her visions based on what was widely considered to be the antichrist power in the 19th century.  If she interpreted those visions based on what we are experiencing in the world today, she might very well have interpreted Islam as the antichrist.

I'm not saying that the RCC will have no role in end-time events.  I've read that the newly formed Jewish Sanhedrin, the extreme end of the emerging church, and a group of moderate Muslims are discussion the construction of a new Temple that would be open to all faiths; and will unite on articles of faith that all three hold in common; while ignoring or discounting salvational truths on which they cannot agree.  This could be the prostitution referred to in eschatology.  The RCC could be instrumental in making this happen.  Pope Francis has said that Islam worships the same god that we Christians worship; which IMO in wrong.  I've read that he has also worshipped in mosques (don't know if that's a fact).

The status of the Temple is unknown to me at this time. Not sure that it has ever been addressed in prophecy thru the bible or EGW.

 

The 3rd Temple is absolutely addressed in scripture in both Daniel and revelation.  It's the 3rd Temple that is restored after 2300 days.  It's the 3rd Temple where the AntiChrist sets himself up as God.  It is the 3rd Temple that will be destroyed where no stone is left standing.  It is the 3rd Temple that John measures in Rev. 11.  I am using only scripture, so please don't respond to me with EGW quotes that have no basis in scripture.

 

[B/W Photodude]

Sorry; but EGW quotes hold no sway over me unless they are backed up by scripture.

Well, you are free to do what you want or believe what you want. And so am I. Again, I do believe I made it perfectly clear that things of doctrinal importance requires Bible support. I consider the words of EGW regarding last day events to have been given as a blessing to God's people in the end times. However, to some, they are foolishness.

I have noticed a large variety of opinions expressed hear on C/A, and many are not traditional Adventist interpretations. In addition, there are Adventists who think the traditional interpretations got it all wrong. There is even one SDA preacher who has told her congregation to forget everything they ever knew about Revelation.To me, it sounds like confusion.

And even Bible verses are subject to misinterpretation. The confusion continues ...

I wonder about this sometimes, because in the New Testament Paul talks about people being sent things for their understanding to harden their hearts. Even in Jeremiah's time, there were prophets prophesying for the Lord unto the king. Jeremiah took issue with them and their message. 

[LifeHiscost]

It seems important to recognize that the children of Israel that painted with the blood of a lamb over their door at the time the angel of death moved through the camp, should give strong impetus to established faith that when it is in God's order to preserve the lives of His children, there will be no lack in what He is able to do for us. When one recognizes the amount of even present loss of life among faithful followers of Christ, our assurance of life is not based on whether this body of ours survives but the fact that  Jesus will be true to His Word.

13Then Nebuchadnezzar flew into a rage and ordered that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego be brought before him. When they were brought in, 14Nebuchadnezzar said to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, that you refuse to serve my gods or to worship the gold statue I have set up? 15I will give you one more chance to bow down and worship the statue I have made when you hear the sound of the musical instruments.^f But if you refuse, you will be thrown immediately into the blazing furnace. And then what god will be able to rescue you from my power?”

16Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego replied, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you. 17If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God whom we serve is able to save us. He will rescue us from your power, Your Majesty. 18But even if he doesn’t, we want to make it clear to you, Your Majesty, that we will never serve your gods or worship the gold statue you have set up.”

19Nebuchadnezzar was so furious with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego that his face became distorted with rage. He commanded that the furnace be heated seven times hotter than usual. 20Then he ordered some of the strongest men of his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21So they tied them up and threw them into the furnace, fully dressed in their pants, turbans, robes, and other garments. 22And because the king, in his anger, had demanded such a hot fire in the furnace, the flames killed the soldiers as they threw the three men in. 23So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, securely tied, fell into the roaring flames.

24But suddenly, Nebuchadnezzar jumped up in amazement and exclaimed to his advisers, “Didn’t we tie up three men and throw them into the furnace?”

“Yes, Your Majesty, we certainly did,” they replied.

25“Look!” Nebuchadnezzar shouted. “I see four men, unbound, walking around in the fire unharmed! And the fourth looks like a god^g!”

26Then Nebuchadnezzar came as close as he could to the door of the flaming furnace and shouted: “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out! Come here!”

So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego stepped out of the fire.....Daniel 3

…25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"....John 11

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[JoeMo]

Well, you are free to do what you want or believe what you want. And so am I. Again, I do believe I made it perfectly clear that things of doctrinal importance requires Bible support. I consider the words of EGW regarding last day events to have been given as a blessing to God's people in the end times. However, to some, they are foolishness.

I have noticed a large variety of opinions expressed hear on C/A, and many are not traditional Adventist interpretations. In addition, there are Adventists who think the traditional interpretations got it all wrong. There is even one SDA preacher who has told her congregation to forget everything they ever knew about Revelation.To me, it sounds like confusion.

And even Bible verses are subject to misinterpretation. The confusion continues ...

I wonder about this sometimes, because in the New Testament Paul talks about people being sent things for their understanding to harden their hearts. Even in Jeremiah's time, there were prophets prophesying for the Lord unto the king. Jeremiah took issue with them and their message. 

I don't disagree that EGW was given prophetic vision.  If it wasn't for her, I would have never started studying prophecy.  It's just that after years of study and watching world events, I can't accept her take on end-time events. It's like she got the visions, but she interpreted them through her cultural and personal baggage - and she was wrong.  The visions were true; her interpretations were not.  Many contemporary prophecy experts are publicly proclaiming that the end-time wars will be over whose God is bigger - the god of Islam or the God of the Jews and Christians.  EGW got it right when she said it would be about worship.

You spoke of people being sent things to harden their hearts.  Could "hardening one's heart" mean closing your mind to all alternatives except your "pet" scenarios?  Pharaoh's heart was hardened because he refused to seriously consider the possibility that the God of the Hebrews was the real deal.

What you call confusion, I call keeping an open mind.  I also agree with your statement that we are free to believe what we want.  To quote part of your standard closing, "I can't force you to be right".   (I like that, BTW - I wish I would have thought of it.)

Edited August 3, 2015 by JoeMo

[B/W Photodude]

It's like she got the visions, but she interpreted them through her cultural and personal baggage - and she was wrong.  The visions were true; her interpretations were not.  

ROFLMAO! Of course, you are not interpreting HER visions through YOUR cultural and personal baggage?! And when were you picked to be the official interpreter of her visions?

[8thdaypriest]

We read her writings - her interpretation of what she was "shown", and then we read the Bible, and we are left thinking something is wrong - something doesn't fit.  Those who say that she actually did receive visions -that  she just interpreted those visions, through the lens of her own day, and the information available to her, and her expectation of the immediate return of Christ - are trying to give her a break.  They are giving her the benefit of the doubt. 

[B/W Photodude]

Yeah, I hear that a lot. "She was just interpreting them in the light of her day." And I am not exactley sure who "we" are that are left thinking something is wrong. I would say that there are many who are not part of "we."

Frankly, I find her visions and the meanings to be remarkably consistant with the Bible. Unfortunately, I find many who cannot interpret even the Bible in any way consistant with many writings in the church. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20

Even some pastors tell the congregation to "forget everything they ever knew about Revelation." Does that contribute to clarity, or confusion?

 

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

  Pharaoh's heart was hardened because he refused to seriously consider the possibility that the God of the Hebrews was the real deal.

 

Considering where I might have been were I the leader of a nation whose economy was largely successful as a result of slave labor that was eminently to disappear, I might have been more concerned about that loss as opposed to any religious concerns.

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[JoeMo]

Considering where I might have been were I the leader of a nation whose economy was largely successful as a result of slave labor that was eminently to disappear, I might have been more concerned about that loss as opposed to any religious concerns.

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

Makes sense.  How many people in this day and age will be lost because their love of money and economic success exceeds their love of God?

[JoeMo]

ROFLMAO! Of course, you are not interpreting HER visions through YOUR cultural and personal baggage?! And when were you picked to be the official interpreter of her visions?

I probably am interpreting her visions through my cultural and personal baggage.  Thing is, my (and many others') views are based on what we are observing now rather than what someone predicted 150 years ago.  Things are not working out as EGW predicted.  If intelligent comparison of what she predicted and what is reality indicate she was wrong is not the right way to do things, what is the right way?  I don't think limiting my viewpoint to what someone said 150 years ago to the exclusion of reality is the right way to go either.  I'm not saying I'm 100% correct; I'm just stating my views.

[LifeHiscost]

I probably am interpreting her visions through my cultural and personal baggage.  Thing is, my (and many others') views are based on what we are observing now rather than what someone predicted 150 years ago.  Things are not working out as EGW predicted.  If intelligent comparison of what she predicted and what is reality indicate she was wrong is not the right way to do things, what is the right way?  I don't think limiting my viewpoint to what someone said 150 years ago to the exclusion of reality is the right way to go either.  I'm not saying I'm 100% correct; I'm just stating my views.

As I recall, not many spokespersons chosen by God to give warnings were pleasantly received or appreciated. As to how long should be acceptable for maintaining trust in the prophecy's fulfillment, once one has found the person to be true to their Lord, prediction is not the right word to define their prognostications.

…17In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, 18so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. 19This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,…Hebrews 6

I personally, have never failed to thrive when following the counsel God gave His endtime church. 

…3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."....Romans 3

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[hch]

Well, you are free to do what you want or believe what you want. And so am I. Again, I do believe I made it perfectly clear that things of doctrinal importance requires Bible support. I consider the words of EGW regarding last day events to have been given as a blessing to God's people in the end times. However, to some, they are foolishness.

I have noticed a large variety of opinions expressed hear on C/A, and many are not traditional Adventist interpretations. In addition, there are Adventists who think the traditional interpretations got it all wrong. There is even one SDA preacher who has told her congregation to forget everything they ever knew about Revelation.To me, it sounds like confusion.

And even Bible verses are subject to misinterpretation. The confusion continues ...

I wonder about this sometimes, because in the New Testament Paul talks about people being sent things for their understanding to harden their hearts. Even in Jeremiah's time, there were prophets prophesying for the Lord unto the king. Jeremiah took issue with them and their message. 

B/W Photodude

Your EGW quotes were interesting. one that I find informative that you missed is this:

"Satan will not only appear as a human being, but he will personate Jesus Christ; and the world that has rejected the truth will receive him as the Lord of lords and King of kings. He will exercise his power, and work upon the human imagination. He will corrupt both the minds and the bodies of men, and will work through the children of disobedience, fascinating and charming, as does a serpent. What a spectacle will the world be for heavenly intelligences! What a spectacle for God, the Creator of the world, to behold!"  {5BC 1105.8} 

Some Adventists focus so much on Satan personating Christ that they miss that prediction that Satan will appear as a human being. Ellen apparently did not know who that "human being" was or she would have been more specific. But if "traditional Adventist interpretations" have missed the significance of that tidbit; those entwined in the Laodicean view (the view that is blind and has need of nothing) need to hear Christ's admonition to get the eyesalve NOW before it is forever too late.

Some folks have already misunderstood my statement. The traditional SDA views are not wrong, but they are likely not the complete final word on the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. That is obvious by Ellen's statement that in the endtime by their fulfillment they will "explain themselves." If they had been completely "fulfilled" in the past there would be no need for them to "explain themselves" after they had been fulfilled.

"Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.  Then said He unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old" (Matthew 13:52-52).

 

 

[hch]

Then look no further.  Drop out of this thread.  We are looking for arguments based in Scripture.  

I would like to see that quote, just for my information.  Is that the one where she said that Old Jerusalem will never be built up? 

PS:  You do realize that the only things necessary to restart the morning/evening sacrifices on the Mount, are 1.  possession of the Temple Mount  2. Red Heifer (to cleanse the spot) and  3.  Aaronic priest.    When Zerubbabel led the returning captives from Babylon, they began the sacrifices on the Mount, LONG BEFORE they had a rebuilt Temple, or even a Tabernacle.

They HAVE #2 and #3 (using DNA).  They just need #1.  For that, there will need to be a war defeating Muslim forces.  Personally, I believe that will be the goat of Daniel Cpt 8, which will crush the ram with 2 horns (Shia and Sunni).  That prophecy WAS for "the time of the END". 

I presented Scriptures that clearly show how the day of the LORD will be and Bob gave an excellent Scriptural presentation to show the chronology of endtime events. I was ignored. And Bob's concise Scriptural presentation was explained away. That is a great set of reasons to need Sister White's comments. She places Scriptures in their proper setting. Oh that more folks would let her settle an issue and not waste their few remaining hours of probation speculating on things that are clearly set forth by Scripture with Sister White's comments.

 

"At the crucifixion, as Jesus died on Calvary, he cried, It is finished, and the vail of the temple was rent in twain, from the top to the bottom. This was to show that the services of the earthly Sanctuary were forever finished, and that God would no more meet with them in their earthly temple, to accept their sacrifices. The blood of Jesus was then shed, which was to be ministered by himself in the heavenly Sanctuary. As the priests in the earthly Sanctuary entered the Most Holy once a year to cleanse the Sanctuary, Jesus entered the Most Holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Dan, viii, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by his mediation, and to cleanse the Sanctuary."  {1SG 161.1} 

This EG White quote is clear "the services of the earthly Sanctuary were forever finished," No one will build a temple to implement the services of the earthly Sanctuary for they are forever finished. That is a prediction according to the word of the LORD as it has been faithfully given by His servant EG White. Forever finished does not mean the services of the earthly Sanctuary were temporarily done away until someone takes possession of the temple mount or until a new temple is built.

8th day you asked about "she [Ellen White] said that Old Jerusalem will never be built up"

It sounds like one of those hearsay things that people think she said. Please share that quote with me.

[8thdaypriest]

I presented Scriptures that clearly show how the day of the LORD will be and Bob gave an excellent Scriptural presentation to show the chronology of endtime events. I was ignored. And Bob's concise Scriptural presentation was explained away. That is a great set of reasons to need Sister White's comments. She places Scriptures in their proper setting. Oh that more folks would let her settle an issue and not waste their few remaining hours of probation speculating on things that are clearly set forth by Scripture with Sister White's comments.

 

This EG White quote is clear "the services of the earthly Sanctuary were forever finished," No one will build a temple to implement the services of the earthly Sanctuary for they are forever finished. That is a prediction according to the word of the LORD as it has been faithfully given by His servant EG White. Forever finished does not mean the services of the earthly Sanctuary were temporarily done away until someone takes possession of the temple mount or until a new temple is built.

8th day you asked about "she [Ellen White] said that Old Jerusalem will never be built up"

It sounds like one of those hearsay things that people think she said. Please share that quote with me.

I did NOT say that Jesus would inspire the rebuilding of a Temple on the Mount, prior to His return.  I said a Temple will be restored there.  I do NOT believe that Jesus will be worshiped there.  I believe this will be done by Orthodox Jews.  The LORD will NOT honor this "House".  It will be as empty of His presence, as was the Most Holy Place of the Temple destroyed by Titus the Roman. That Temple contained NO ARK.  

I think it possible that the ARK may be found.  In PK pg,453, Mrs White quotes the traditional belief that the ARK was hidden in a cave by Jeremiah. 

I think it possible that Satan (pretending to be Christ come) will put his hand on the Ark, and not instantly be killed, then claim that he gave those commands, and because of this, he can change the Sabbath.  It's possible.

Edited August 4, 2015 by 8thdaypriest

[8thdaypriest]

Here's the quote:

"I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their whole interest into the present work of the Lord, and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation for the day of the Lord."
                                                                      A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White, pg.62

 

[JoeMo]

"Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. ² And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. ³ And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth." (Rev. 14:1-3)

From thiese verses, it appears that the 144,000 are already with Jesus either in heaven or in someplace of protection prior to the 7 last plagues descripbed in Rev. 16.

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, ¹⁰ they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. ¹¹ And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” (Rev. 14:9-11)

These verses seem to indicate that the mark of the beast comes at the very end of time - during the 7th trumpet and right before the 7 last plagues.  It appears to be a last-ditch attempt by the beast to discourage those who would worship the true God.  The beast knows he has lost; and will try to drag as many as he can into the lake of fire with him.

[Gerr]

Noah and his family were on this earth when the Flood came.

The Israelites were in Egypt when the plagues came

[B/W Photodude]

 

B/W Photodude

Your EGW quotes were interesting. one that I find informative that you missed is this:

Some Adventists focus so much on Satan personating Christ that they miss that prediction that Satan will appear as a human being.

Didn't really miss it. The forces of Satan have always been able to impersonate humans just like God's angels are able to. But for the point I was making, the impersonation of Jesus were the relevant quotes. 

[8thdaypriest]

2 Thess  2:8     And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

"That wicked" is the Antichrist - not every person on planet earth.  And "destroy with the brightness of His coming" does not necessarily mean "vaporized".  It may mean that the false system collapses, because Christ Himself shows up. 

The people of God WILL be on planet earth until the 7th trumpet, at which point they will be called up to Heaven by the voice of God.  The trumpets ARE plagues, which is why the people of God will be on the earth through some plagues.

[hch]

8th day

When in context of the time in which EGW wrote that Old Jerusalem would never be rebuilt:

 I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, [WRITTEN IN THE EARLY 1850'S WHEN "THE AGE-TO-COME" ADVOCATES TAUGHT THAT OLD JERUSALEM WOULD BE BUILT UP AS A CENTER OF CHRISTIAN WITNESS FULFILLING CERTAIN PROPHECIES OF THE O.T.] and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes. Such a view is calculated to take the mind and interest from the present work of the Lord, under the message of the third angel; for those who think that they are yet to go to Jerusalem will have their minds there, and their means will be withheld from the cause of present truth to get themselves and others there. I saw that such a mission would accomplish no real good, that it would take a long while to make a very few of the Jews believe even in the first advent of Christ, much more to believe in His second advent.  {Mar 136.3}

From that EGW statement in the context that Old Jerusalem WOULD NOT BE BUILT UP AS A CENTER OF CHRISTIAN WITNESS I cannot see any possibility of a third temple, etc.

[brotherly love]

"Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. ² And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. ³ And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth." (Rev. 14:1-3)

From thiese verses, it appears that the 144,000 are already with Jesus either in heaven or in someplace of protection prior to the 7 last plagues descripbed in Rev. 16.

The 144000 are called the first fruits, not the last fruits.

[JoeMo]

The 144000 are called the first fruits, not the last fruits.

I agree.  Isn't that what I was alluding to?