Will the redeemed be on this earth for the last plagues?

[B/W Photodude]

I agree.  Isn't that what I was alluding to?

The first fruits already went to heaven with Jesus 2000 years go. AKA the "wave sheath" offering. These are the people resurrected with Jesus.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

 

The first fruits already went to heaven with Jesus 2000 years go. AKA the "wave sheath" offering. These are the people resurrected with Jesus.

there are already people in heaven (aside from Moses and Elijah)??  I've never heard of that.  How did they get by the "judgement" that isn't to happen until the close of time?

[B/W Photodude]

there are already people in heaven (aside from Moses and Elijah)??  I've never heard of that.  How did they get by the "judgement" that isn't to happen until the close of time?

I do not know how they may have stepped around the judgement process, but they seemed to have, perhaps in the same way Moses and Elijah did. But you can read in Matthew 27: 52,53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. But little information is given about these people who were resurrected with Jesus. However, in the Desire of Ages you can read more about these who were resurrected and taken to heaven with Jesus. It is quite thrilling to hear that many are already in heaven after having been resurrected back to life. I am sometimes dying to know just who they were. And makes me wonder if they are not also unrecognized in other parts of the Bible as in who are the 24 elders? Could it be these who were resurrected with Jesus? But these stories make it easier and easier to agree with EGW when she wrote, "To the believer, death is but a small matter."

Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of those that slept. He was the antitype of the wave sheaf, and His resurrection took place on the very day when the wave sheaf was to be presented before the Lord. For more than a thousand years this symbolic ceremony had been performed. From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord. Not until this was presented could the sickle be put to the grain, and it be gathered into sheaves. The sheaf dedicated to God represented the harvest. So Christ the first fruits represented the great spiritual harvest to be gathered for the kingdom of God. His resurrection is the type and pledge of the resurrection of all the righteous dead. “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.” 1 Thessalonians 4:14. – {DA 785.4}

As Christ arose, He brought from the grave a multitude of captives. The earthquake at His death had rent open their graves, and when He arose, they came forth with Him. They were those who had been co-laborers with God, and who at the cost of their lives had borne testimony to the truth. Now they were to be witnesses for Him who had raised them from the dead. – {DA 786.1}

During His ministry, Jesus had raised the dead to life. He had raised the son of the widow of Nain, and the ruler’s daughter and Lazarus. But these were not clothed with immortality. After they were raised, they were still subject to death. But those who came forth from the grave at Christ’s resurrection were raised to everlasting life. They ascended with Him as trophies of His victory over death and the grave. These, said Christ, are no longer the captives of Satan; I have redeemed them. I have brought them from the grave as the first fruits of My power, to be with Me where I am, nevermore to see death or experience sorrow. – {DA 786.2}

These went into the city, and appeared unto many, declaring, Christ has risen from the dead, and we be risen with Him. Thus was immortalized the sacred truth of the resurrection. The risen saints bore witness to the truth of the words, “Thy dead men shall live, together with My dead body shall they arise.” Their resurrection was an illustration of the fulfillment of the prophecy, “Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.” Isaiah 26:19. – {DA 786.3}

The voice that cried from the cross, “It is finished,” was heard among the dead. It pierced the walls of sepulchers, and summoned the sleepers to arise. Thus will it be when the voice of Christ shall be heard from heaven. That voice will penetrate the graves and unbar the tombs, and the dead in Christ shall arise. At the Saviour’s resurrection a few graves were opened, but at His second coming all the precious dead shall hear His voice, and shall come forth to glorious, immortal life. The same power that raised Christ from the dead will raise His church, and glorify it with Him, above all principalities, above all powers, above every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in the world to come. – {DA 787.2}

Edited August 5, 2015 by B/W Photodude

[8thdaypriest]

Noah and his family were on this earth when the Flood came.

The Israelites were in Egypt when the plagues came

Noah and his family were INSIDE the ark, and had been for 7days, when the flood came.  What does that ark symbolize?  Is it not a symbol of Jesus - our place of safety.  The redeemed will be shut in with Jesus, when the wrath plagues are poured out. 

Yes the Israelites were in Egypt.  And I believe I have SAID that the redeemed will be on this earth during the first six Trumpet plagues.  The redeemed are "changed in a moment" at the Voice of the Archangel (Jesus), at the 7th Trumpet. 

The wrath plagues FOLLOW the 7th Trumpet. 

Edited August 5, 2015 by 8thdaypriest

[8thdaypriest]

There got to be too many priests to all serve IN the Tabernacle at Jerusalem, at the same time.  King David divided the priesthood into 24 "courses".  These clans later took turns serving at the Temple.  When the Father of John the Baptist ministered INSIDE the Temple, to light the incense, this was probably a once-in-a-lifetime thing.  On Feast Days - all of them would be at the Temple.  I think that the 24 elders of Revelation, may represent  24 courses of Elders.  They claim that they are becoming "priests and kings" and that they will reign on the earth. 

The 144,000 are a different harvest.  We know that because Revelation 6:12-17 describes the second coming.  V.17 asks a question.  "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"  The answer to that question is - the 144,000.  These will stand on the DAY of His coming.  

Jesus was the "firstfruits" of the year, and the "firstfruits" of the Spring Harvest - which was the barley harvest. 

Those who are delivered at the Second Coming will be the wheat harvest - the Summer Harvest.  The 144,000 are the "firstfruits" of THAT harvest. 

The "great day of His wrath" is the DAY when the plagues are poured out. 

In my Bible there is a heading over Chapter 15.  It says "Prelude to the Bowl Judgments". 

In 15:1, seven angels are seen, "having seven last plagues" in which the "wrath of God is complete.  The plagues have NOT YET been poured out.  The angels who WILL pour our the last plagues are simply highlighted.  "Those who have the victory over the beast" are seen "standing on the sea of glass."  They are singing a victory song - the "son of Moses and the Lamb". 

Rev 4:6 places that "sea of glass' "before the throne" of God the Father - IN HEAVEN. 

One of the 4 living creatures, comes oout of the Temple of the Tabernacle of the testimony in heaven".  This "creature" "gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God."  

15:8 is very interesting, because this is Day of Atonement imagery.  

"The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed."

Leviticus 16:12  "Then he [Aaron] shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from the alter before the LORD, with his hands full of sweet incense beaten fine, and bring it inside the veil.  And he shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the Testimony, lest he die."  

So there's the "smoke" that fills the Temple of Heaven.  

 NO MAN IN THE TABERNACLE

Lev 16 :17  "There shall be no man [other than the High Priest] in the tabernacle of meeting when he [the HP] goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out." 

There are TWO BEINGS in the Most Holy Place of Heaven on this DAY.  God the Father and Jesus Christ our High Priest.  I know that from the TYPE imagery in Leviticus.  And I know that from verse 16:1, and 16:7. 

16:1  "I heard a loud voice from the Temple saying to the seven angels, 'Go and pour out the bowls of wrath of God on the earth."  AND 16:7  "And I heard another from the alter saying, 'Even So, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.'"  The voice from the alter, is "another" voice - a different one. 

So whose is the OTHER voice "from the alter" of incense??  Would that not be Jesus' voice?  Jesus is the "angel" standing at the Alter of Incense with the "golden censer" in Rev 8:1-5.

  So - compare Rev. 15:8 with Lev. 16:17.

"and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed." (Rev. 15:8)

 "There shall be no man [other than the High Priest] in the tabernacle of meeting when he [the HP] goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out."  (Lev 16:8). 

From the TYPE and the same words used, it appears that Jesus - the High Priest - IS IN the Heavenly Temple, while the 7 last plagues are poured out.  When the last vial is poured out, a "voice came out from the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"  This seems like the Father, because He is the "one who sits on the throne" during the Court scene.

I know that Mrs White wrote, that the last plagues CANNOT be poured out UNTIL Jesus LEAVES the Most Holy Place, but the Leviticus TYPE, and the imagery from Revelation suggest that Jesus will be IN the Temple of Heaven, while the last plagues are poured out on the earth.   

So - where does that put the saints, WHEN Jesus enters the MHP?  If they are "standing on the sea of glass" BEFORE the last plagues are poured out - that puts them IN HEAVEN.    They "ascended to heaven in a cloud" at the Voice of God, at the conclusion of the last 42 months of persecution (Rev. 11:12).  That would be just as the 7th trumpet sounds. 

Just my take on it.  Rachel

 

[JoeMo]

I believe that the 24 elders before the throne spoken of in Revelation are humans.

[brotherly love]

 

You are right, the reference is in the Old testament. in 1 chronicles 24 shows the division of of the preisthood (24). The rest is also describing the priesthood. The harps and singing  is from  2 chronicles 5. Incense from Leviticus 16.

The 24 elders represents the church, and they sing a new song...

The four faced cherubim, are the witnesses of the fall, and the victory of Jesus at the resurrection.

I has little to do with whether the redeemed are on the earth for the last plague, but has to do with Jesus taking the throne and authority upon resurrection and ascension

 

Edited August 6, 2015 by brotherly love