Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[JoeMo]

Samie,

Pretty much where I am right now.  I would add that the Kingdom of Israel as promised to Abraham and David is restored to the believing children of Jacob (including gentile spiritual Israel).

[JoeMo]

On 3/10/2017 at 2:12 AM, hch said:

I do not expect President Trump to wield the power of the Presidency of the USA after 28 March 2017.

Are you sticking with this prediction?  Only one week left.

[hch]

On 3/21/2017 at 1:45 PM, JoeMo said:

Are you sticking with this prediction?  Only one week left.

YES...

AS I currently read Daniel's prophecy:

President Obama is the last American President identified in Daniel (he will be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's Coming).

As I currently understand Daniel, 28 March 2017, is the deadline if that aligns with ancient Babylon's New Year's Day (archeologists are all over the map when I try to nail down the day for ancient Babylon's New Year's Day---But it is in March = before April 1). If Heaven is using America's Inauguration Day (January 20, 2017) then I will have the right events, but would be very premature in my timing.

I find it very difficult to tell people things that they do not want to hear. This is especially true of the Laodiceans who have the Bible, the Spirit of prophecy, and the Sabbath. They say that they have no need for Present Truth. They would rather wait and see and then make up their minds. Or some like ... fault me as though my grey matter is lacking in some way.  If it was a matter of intelligence, God blessed me with a 4.0 GPA when I went to college and I could have done better if I had studied. But I have studied prophecy very prayerfully and with an open mind that did not try to prove my ideas, but that followed wherever God led. I believe that it is better to study to show ourselves approve of God and learn from prophecy when it is fulfilled. But those who are not expecting popes and presidents to fulfill prophecy will not see it when it happens because they are not looking for it (they are looking for something else?)

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, hch said:

But I have studied prophecy very prayerfully and with an open mind that did not try to prove my ideas, but that followed wherever God led. I believe that it is better to study to show ourselves approve of God and learn from prophecy when it is fulfilled.

I like the attitude.  IF you are mistaken, keep after it.  I myself have made some gross errors in logic judgement concerning end times; and I'm sure I will make more.  My prayer is that we watchers never give up; that we keep looking for signs of fulfillment.  Prophecy is purposefully vague to prevent both humans and demons from from seeing the "reality" until it actually unfolds.  Keep studying, as will I.

[phkrause]

8 hours ago, hch said:

AS I currently read Daniel's prophecy:

President Obama is the last American President identified in Daniel (he will be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's Coming).

But he is not the last president!! Right now Trump is!! And should/if he gets impeached than Pence will become the POTUS!! So that will be 2 past Obama!! Not sure how you can still say Obama is the last president??

[hch]

9 hours ago, phkrause said:

But he is not the last president!! Right now Trump is!! And should/if he gets impeached than Pence will become the POTUS!! So that will be 2 past Obama!! Not sure how you can still say Obama is the last president??

Brother,

I did not write the Bible. I only study it (and very prayerfully). What you write of is what you see by sight. What I write of I see by faith.

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH said in the quote below:

*  HCH, are you telling us that the coefficient of correlation between college grades and IQ is a "1?"

*  In actual fact the measured correlation between college grades and IQ is a 0.50.

*  Congratulations on your good college grades.  You may very well have a good IQ.  But, your suggestion that your 4.0 GPA substantiates that you have a high IQ is not supported by the fact that the measured coefficient of correlation is far away from a "1."

Quote

  If it was a matter of intelligence, God blessed me with a 4.0 GPA when I went to college . . .

[Gregory Matthews]

FYI:

A failure to understand the meaning of the coefficient of correlation is one of the most common errors that people can make.

As a matter of fact, and the following is actually true:

The coefficient of correlation between the length of a person's 2nd toe on the right foot and their ability to read is higher than the coefficient of correlation between college grades and IQ.

 

 

[JoeMo]

Another thing to consider - as a statistician, one has to realize that correlation does not necessarily imply causation.  For example, one can correlate the occurrence of a full moon 100% to a 28.5 day cycle.  However, the 28.5 day cycle does not "cause" the occurrence full moon; its orbit causes the occurrence of a full moon. 

[JoeMo]

hch,

What would cause you to consider the possibility that you may have made a mistake in your current interpretation of eschatology?  If Trump is still president on April 1 (or 4), will that dissuade you from broadcasting your views on Obama?

[pierrepaul]

The following is not intended to be a knock on HCH, whose contributions to this thread I have tremendously appreciated.

IQ does not correlate with wisdom (and wisdom is hard to measure). I'd put my IQ up against just about anybody's, and the Lord knows I've said, done and believed loads of foolish things.

Ayn Rand had a sky-high IQ; Karl Marx was brilliant as well. Both were spectacularly wrong in their analysis of economics, politics and human nature. Among recent politicians, Ted Cruz has genius-level IQ, so does Bill Clinton. High IQ is not a guarantee of being correct in matters of politics, philosophy or religion. In fact, high IQ currently correlates with atheism and unbelief.

[Gregory Matthews]

JoMo said:

Exactly.

. . .correlation does not necessarily imply causation. . .

[phkrause]

On 3/24/2017 at 6:09 AM, hch said:

Brother,

I did not write the Bible. I only study it (and very prayerfully). What you write of is what you see by sight. What I write of I see by faith.

Neither did I!! And if I came up with that Obama will be the last president and it becomes clear that he is not!!!!! Well guess what I would be doing????? I'd be rereading where I went wrong!! Don't you agree??

[debbym]

a lot of America feels there is no acting president at this time.... lol  

[stinsonmarri]

On 4/24/2016 at 1:09 AM, Buzzards said:

is it Papal Rome we need to watch;

or is it the 2nd Beast

There is need of a much closer study of the word of ELOHIYM; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of THE HOLY SPIRIT of ELOHIYM. . .

As we near the close of time, there will be greater and still greater external parade of heathen power; heathen deities will manifest their signal power, and will exhibit themselves before the cities of the world; and this delineation has already begun to be fulfilled. . .

We do not go deep enough in our search for truth. Every soul who believes present truth will be brought where he will be required to give a reason of the hope that is in him. The people of ELOHIYM will be called upon to stand before kings, princes, rulers, and great men of the earth, and they must know that they do know what is truth. They must be converted men and women. ELOHIYM can teach you more in one moment by HIS HOLY SPIRIT than you could learn from the great men of the earth. TM p. 112-119

Too me those who claim to believe in EGW never seem to believe in when she agree with the Bible. Meaning the Bible already stated it and she was given it to repeat to those who wanted to be ready when YAHSHUA comes! That second beast with the lamblike horn is known as USA the false prophet. Why should we be concern about the Papacy?

The Papacy has done her job, because even this church who has the message has turn from it. Who are the three angels? Well the Bible never said that we did! The Bible said another angel and if we study deeper we would find out something of importance! The word another in Greek is "allos," meant else or to break it down more simple, "something different!" The Peshitta Bible uses messengers instead of angels, which is what the Bible actual call them:

 And of the angels HE saith, Who maketh HIS angels spirits, and HIS ministers a flame of fire. Heb 1:7 

But, the Bible said these messengers are different! Why don't we read the verses above and the rest of the chapter to get the whole message??

Simple a 144,000 messengers are standing around THE FATHER'S Throne with THE LAMB inside the Temple. Just like what EGW saw:

And as we were about to enter the Holy Temple,YAHSHUA raised HIS lovely VOICE and said, “Only the 144,000 enter this place,” and we shouted, “Alleluia.” This Temple was supported by seven pillars, all of transparent gold, set with pearls most Glorious. The wonderful things I there saw I cannot describe. Oh, that I could talk in the language of Canaan, then could I tell a little of the Glory of the better world. I saw there tables of stone in which the Names of the 144,000 were engraved in letters of gold. 

YAHSHUA in Matt 25 called them five wise virgins and they standing in the Temple of THE MOST HOLY PLACE receiving THE FATHER'S NAME in their forehead which was one of their rewards. These, the Bible say were not defile and now have harps singing a song no man but them would sing. Because they have been redeemed from the work that they had done: Then in this chapter the Bible shows clearly their work. They are these different messenger to preach during the Time of Trouble the final messages. They have their extra oil or the anointing of THE HOLY SPIRIT pouring upon these overcomers to finish the work. They are the one sitting on the cloud having now THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of YAHSHUA having only one crown. The  a different angels a spiritual messenger of YAHWEH (see these are different, these messengers are coming from Heaven. The earthly messenger are flying in actually the mid sky, which is earth!), now tells them to reach in their sickle for now the harvest is ripe. They gathering the great multitude that no man can number. As this group is gathering in the harvest, then the a differen angel or spiritual messenger from Heaven has a sickle and another spiritual messenger tell him now to gather up the vines that are left and bundle the up for the fire! This is the whole chapter, stop reading just some of it  read all, to get the full message.

I urge all to realize that the papacy is riding the beast, she is the whore! Revelation Chapter 17 explain clearly that the beast yes, came from the Catholic Church. However, he will leave her and become more powerful then she ever was. Read Daniel he says the same thing about the beast. The whore is the Catholic Church, the beast and his ten kings who not just yet. They will rule the world for a short while with the beast. They will hate the whore and killed her. It is ELOHIYM'S Will! He will destroy her and Jerusalem/Babylon (the inhabitants of unclean birds). That city today have Judaic religion that ELOHIYM did not give to Israel. These people are not the Hebrew or Israel, they are Ashkenazi, children of Japheth. Catholic, Islam, Protestants, Coptic are all false religions and this city will be desolated for the third and final time. To finish it off a spiritual messenger of ELOHIYM will take a millstone and cast Jerusalem into the sea (To prepare for the New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven!). The beast and the Papacy, Protestantism, Judaic and Coptic will fight in the battle of Armageddon and the beast will win! Read deeper folks please!

Blessings!

[hch]

On 3/24/2017 at 10:29 AM, JoeMo said:

hch,

What would cause you to consider the possibility that you may have made a mistake in your current interpretation of eschatology?  If Trump is still president on April 1 (or 4), will that dissuade you from broadcasting your views on Obama?

JoeMo

I am using the Babylonian Calendar with New Year's Day (to the best of my research) as being 28 March on our Gregorian calendar. That could be off by a day or two. Thus I expect it to be 28 March but it could be as late as 31 March But before 1 April.  I use the Babylonian Calendar because Revelation 17 and 18 are about Babylon. And the king of Babylon was secular and religious. King Nebuchadnezzar dictated worship (cf Daniel 3). If I have used the wrong calendar, we could be looking at 19 January 2017. I have been discussing that since 2013 on another forum.

Daniel 7:17 states that the 4 beasts are earth kings. Daniel saw sea-beasts, but the interpretation is about earth kings.  The prophetic earth is the USA and it does not have kings, it has Presidents. If I am wrong with the date (time will tell). But if Daniel 7:17 is not about American Presidents, the earth power in Revelation 13 would have to be some power other than the USA.

The difference between my view and that of the brethren is that I use Heaven's interpretation in Daniel 7 :15-28 to interpret the vision instead of using the vision (Daniel 7:1-14) to interpret the interpretation.

If President Trump is President on 1 April, I will have used the wrong calendar. If he is President on 20 January 2018, that would indicate a big mistake in my prophetic understanding.

 

[hch]

On 3/24/2017 at 10:53 AM, pierrepaul said:

The following is not intended to be a knock on HCH, whose contributions to this thread I have tremendously appreciated.

IQ does not correlate with wisdom (and wisdom is hard to measure). I'd put my IQ up against just about anybody's, and the Lord knows I've said, done and believed loads of foolish things.

Ayn Rand had a sky-high IQ; Karl Marx was brilliant as well. Both were spectacularly wrong in their analysis of economics, politics and human nature. Among recent politicians, Ted Cruz has genius-level IQ, so does Bill Clinton. High IQ is not a guarantee of being correct in matters of politics, philosophy or religion. In fact, high IQ currently correlates with atheism and unbelief.

My IQ became a matter of discussion only because of comments made in a few earlier posts that could have been read as implying that I was stupid.

[hch]

6 hours ago, phkrause said:

Neither did I!! And if I came up with that Obama will be the last president and it becomes clear that he is not!!!!! Well guess what I would be doing????? I'd be rereading where I went wrong!! Don't you agree??

I have prayerfully reread and re-studied the Scriptures and the Spirit of prophecy only to discover that history has not caught up to the prophecy yet. So I keep my faith in God's sure word and wait upon the LORD.

[hch]

3 hours ago, debbym said:

a lot of America feels there is no acting president at this time.... lol  

Deb

Perhaps the man in the Oval Office is "acting" like he's President. True life sure beats watching the SOAPS lol

[stinsonmarri]

Tell me what does Obama, who I felt was call by ELOHIYM, and a great President and a man who is a puppet Trump; have to do with the Three angels message! What is this?????

Blessings!

[CoAspen]

What happens when a person runs out of calanders?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

there's always a chance that Obama could be president again.... or Michelle Obama.

[Gregory Matthews]

Well, various dates have been posted:

* March 28, 2017.

* March 31, 2017?

*  Before April 1, 2017.

*  By January 20, 2018.

I suspect that if I were to research this I would find that a plethora of dates  has been posted, such that none can be pined down, locked in concrete and each date has such a way of escape that none can be said to be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CoAspen]

It's called "No leg to stand on"!!

[hch]

On 3/31/2017 at 10:00 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Well, various dates have been posted:

* March 28, 2017.

* March 31, 2017?

*  Before April 1, 2017.

*  By January 20, 2018.

I suspect that if I were to research this I would find that a plethora of dates  has been posted, such that none can be pined down, locked in concrete and each date has such a way of escape that none can be said to be wrong.

Gregory,

I have been silent for a few weeks to study and pray  without distractions. And then I laid aside prophetic study for a while to concentrate on just studying the Bible from Genesis onward.

Someone told me recently "But HC, March 27 to April 1 didn't work out the way you thought! Have you accounted for that in these conclusions that you have drawn?"

I replied to him: There are those who study the Bible (and make mistakes from time to time). There are those who constructively interact with them and contribute to the study and increase knowledge. There are those who are the accusers of the brethren. And there are a lot of people all along the spectrum between encourager and accuser who do not know where they are in Bible prophecy.

Bible prophecy study is a learning experience. For we know in part and when that which is perfect is come, we know more. 

As you appear to know,  my original understanding was that if President Obama left office on 20 January 2017, that Christ would have to come by 19 January 2018. Or Obama would have to return to office before 20 January 2018.

More study led me to go with 28 March date as the Babylonian New Year's Day. Someone (I don't remember who) told me that 28 March could not be Babylon's New Year's Day. 28 March turned out to be Nisan 1 (New Year's Day on the Hebrew calendar this year)

If anyone should toss the baby out with the wash water, that is their doing. But I believe my understanding is closer than some think and when more pieces of the puzzle are understood, the blessing will be self evident to those who study the Bible and are receptive to the instruction of the Holy Spirit.