Barely Adventist

[Gary K]

I have been looking through the Barely Adventist "humor" forum.  To me it is all satire, and what is the definition of satire:

Quote

Satire
Satire Sat"ire (?; in Eng. often ?; 277), n. [L. satira,
 satura, fr. satura (sc. lanx) a dish filled with various
 kinds of fruits, food composed of various ingredients, a
 mixture, a medley, fr. satur full of food, sated, fr. sat,
 satis, enough: cf. F. satire. See Sate, Sad, a., and cf.
 Saturate.]
 1. A composition, generally poetical, holding up vice or
 folly to reprobation; a keen or severe exposure of what in
 public or private morals deserves rebuke; an invective
 poem; as, the Satires of Juvenal.
 [1913 Webster]

 2. Keeness and severity of remark; caustic exposure to
 reprobation; trenchant wit; sarcasm.
 [1913 Webster]

 Syn: Lampoon; sarcasm; irony; ridicule; pasquinade;
 burlesque; wit; humor.
 [1913 Webster] Satiric

Satire is used to hold something up to rebuke, a caustic exposure to reprobation, a lampooning, ridicule, and more.  Thus I see the entire forum as an attack upon the church. 

[Gregory Matthews]

It is laughing at the denomination.

In psychology, mature people are able to laugh at themselves and the dumb things that they often do.  Ys, sometimes they are embarrassed.  But, they brush it off with the knowledge that they are only human, flawed and imperfect.

Mature organizations are able to do the above.

It is immaturity in both people and organizations that causes them to be unable to acknowledge any imperfection.

 

 

[Gary K]

3 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

It is laughing at the denomination.

In psychology, mature people are able to laugh at themselves and the dumb things that they often do.  Ys, sometimes they are embarrassed.  But, they brush it off with the knowledge that they are only human, flawed and imperfect.

Mature organizations are able to do the above.

It is immaturity in both people and organizations that causes them to be unable to acknowledge any imperfection.

 

 

So, you deny that satire is an attack?  If I was to become very satirical about you, how would you like it?  Would you not see it as me holding you up to ridicule?

[Gregory Matthews]

Satire may be an attack, and it may not be.

Regardless, I may demonstrate my maturity by the manner in which I respond.

Satire is generally one of the least effective means of doing harm to an organization.  Organizations with maturity will not give much responsive action to satire, other than to turn it into a positive thing, which sometimes can be done.

By the way;  In a prior life I was once in a teaching position where the majority of the students had graduate degrees.  There were ties when those students did hold me up to satire.  I reveled in it.  It tell stories to this day about what the did.  Why, because I thought what they did was very funny.  I had a good time with it and so did they.  As this was in a military situation where they were required to take the classes that I was teaching, it did not hurt my standing and influence with them as they learned that I could take it.

 

 

 

 

[Gary K]

8 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Satire may be an attack, and it may not be.

Regardless, I may demonstrate my maturity by the manner in which I respond.

Satire is generally one of the least effective means of doing harm to an organization.  Organizations with maturity will not give much responsive action to satire, other than to turn it into a positive thing, which sometimes can be done.

 

 

 

Satire, by its very definition, is an attack.  It is pointing out what it thinks is folly, stupid, unreasonable, and so on.  Just because you want to ignore the dictionary definition of satire doesn't make your position credible.  I will ask again, if I consistently ridiculed you through satire how long would I last here?  My guess is not very long.

I know of know of no one who likes to be ridiculed and mocked no matter how it is supposedly disguised as humor.  Satire is meanness.

[Gregory Matthews]

Gary K:  It appears that you have limited your review of dictionary meanings for the word satire;

Certainly, Satire, can be an attack. But, by the American Heritage Dictionary, another standard meaning for satire is "irony."  So, what is irony?  A definition for irony is:  A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.   In addition, Irony is an incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs. 
 

The bottom line Garry, is that satire can be something other than an attack.

Regardless, I stand by what I have said.  Even when satire is an attack, it is quite ineffective in doing real harm.  Mature people are able to laugh it off and not be bound to react in an aggressive, hostile manner.

You should note  that I did not say a person needed to like it.

Barely Adventist is fun.  It is healthy for people to be able to laugh at themselves. 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Barely Adventist is the SDA version of "The Onion"...  And as it is with The Onion, readers need to be aware that the content *is* satire.  I've seen too many folks on FB who share the stories as if they're true.  Did you know that if you say "gullible" very slowly, it sounds like "oranges"?  Caveat lector!!!

I generally enjoy satire — but that comes from my years of graveyard shifts in the hospital and the inevitable "dark humor" that one develops..

[Gregory Matthews]

Folks one can say that satire is always an attack if they wish.  Such is  freedom of speech.  But, to fail to see the humor in the following simply reveals a deficit in one's understanding:

http://barelyadventist.com/trump-demands-to-see-ted-wilsons-birth-certificate/

The following has value in that it invites people to actually consider the boundaries of their doctrinal beliefs:

http://barelyadventist.com/parking-attendants-at-vallejo-drive-seventh-day-adventist-church-decide-to-keep-sabbath/

The following, while satire, contains an element of truth:

http://barelyadventist.com/pope-visits-general-conference-to-congratulate-leaders-on-keeping-ordination-male-only/

To anyone who would wish to condemn satire a always vengeful and an attack, I will suggest:  Wake up.  It is a beautiful Sabbath day.  God is alive and involved in human affairs [Please do not sexualize what I just wrote.] here on earth.  Smell the roses, even if you have to visit a flower shop today.  Make a conscious decision to enjoy the day that God has given us.  It is a  wonderful day.

 

 

 

[aka]

Personally, in my subjective way, I disagree with all of Gregory's approach at defense of 'Barely Adventist'.

The whole deception of it all as some ongoing joke agenda really repulses me.

But then again,..... 

.....I myself am 'Barely Adventist' so find the matter quite ironic in a personal way.  

  

[Gregory Matthews]

AKA:  I can understand your viewpoint.  I respect it. 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't think all of Barely Adventist's articles are top quality satire.  There have been a few that I thought crossed the line of satire and traveled into the realm of disrespect.

[Gary K]

2 hours ago, aka said:

Personally, in my subjective way, I disagree with all of Gregory's approach at defense of 'Barely Adventist'.

The whole deception of it all as some ongoing joke agenda really repulses me.

But then again,..... 

.....I myself am 'Barely Adventist' so find the matter quite ironic in a personal way.  

  

I knew I liked you, even though I could not remember you.  Your honesty is very much appreciated.  While we may disagree on many things today, honesty will bring us into agreement and understanding at some point because to honest people truth is paramount. 

[Gary K]

1 hour ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

I don't think all of Barely Adventist's articles are top quality satire.  There have been a few that I thought crossed the line of satire and traveled into the realm of disrespect.

While I disagree on the number that show disrespect I appreciate your honesty in admitting that there are open attacks upon the church in that forum.

[Gary K]

15 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Gary K:  It appears that you have limited your review of dictionary meanings for the word satire;

Certainly, Satire, can be an attack. But, by the American Heritage Dictionary, another standard meaning for satire is "irony."  So, what is irony?  A definition for irony is:  A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.   In addition, Irony is an incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs. 
 

The bottom line Garry, is that satire can be something other than an attack.

Regardless, I stand by what I have said.  Even when satire is an attack, it is quite ineffective in doing real harm.  Mature people are able to laugh it off and not be bound to react in an aggressive, hostile manner.

You should note  that I did not say a person needed to like it.

Barely Adventist is fun.  It is healthy for people to be able to laugh at themselves. 

 

I can, and do, frequently mock and laugh at myself.  It is the attacking of others through ridicule and mockery that I cannot abide. 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

57 minutes ago, Gary K said:

While I disagree on the number that show disrespect I appreciate your honesty in admitting that there are open attacks upon the church in that forum.

well, that's not what I wrote... 

Disrespect in the satire of "Barely Adventist" doesn't necessarily mean an "attack upon the church."   Most would admit that there are many rather inane things inherent in the church *culture" that the public finds odd:  the jewelry issue, the dancing issue, the no-swimming-on-the-Sabbath-but-you-can-wade issue, the eating out vs not eating out on the Sabbath issue, don't go to the theater (unless it's a movie of Desmond Doss), the dress-modestly-but-your-daughters-can-have-Beyonce-as-a-role-model mentality, etc, etc, etc.  I see no problem in satire pointing out the ridiculousness of some of those issues.  Other Barely Adventist articles feature SDA "quirks" like the haystack meals.  I find nothing wrong in poking fun at the incongruities of the Adventist culture.

The articles I'm not fond of are the ones that poke fun of *individuals* (church officials, politicians, the Pope, or other well-known figures).  However, I am well aware of the fact that fame invites satire.  But that doesn't make it right.  The writing of satire comes with a certain amount of responsibility that some don't understand.

[Gary K]

4 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

well, that's not what I wrote... 

Disrespect in the satire of "Barely Adventist" doesn't necessarily mean an "attack upon the church."   Most would admit that there are many rather inane things inherent in the church *culture" that the public finds odd:  the jewelry issue, the dancing issue, the no-swimming-on-the-Sabbath-but-you-can-wade issue, the eating out vs not eating out on the Sabbath issue, don't go to the theater (unless it's a movie of Desmond Doss), the dress-modestly-but-your-daughters-can-have-Beyonce-as-a-role-model mentality, etc, etc, etc.  I see no problem in satire pointing out the ridiculousness of some of those issues.  Other Barely Adventist articles feature SDA "quirks" like the haystack meals.  I find nothing wrong in poking fun at the incongruities of the Adventist culture.

The articles I'm not fond of are the ones that poke fun of *individuals* (church officials, politicians, the Pope, or other well-known figures).  However, I am well aware of the fact that fame invites satire.  But that doesn't make it right.  The writing of satire comes with a certain amount of responsibility that some don't understand.

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time when we attack the leaders of the church we are attacking the church.  And, just because you find some of the standards of the church irreconcialble with your own views doesn't make them "ridiculous".  It just means you don't understand the reason for the standards.  I often did not understand the reasons for the standards when I was younger, but as I have grown and deepened my walk with God I see the reason for the standards.  That doesn't mean I think I need to look down on someone who doesn't understand them.  I just think that as long as we both keep on surrendering self to God on an everyday basis and desire to fully follow Him we will eventually come to the same point of understanding.  Any two people who surrender self to God, and keep on surrendering self to God come to the same points of understanding because God is the meeting point.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Gary, if that's what you want to believe, that's fine.  But don't presume to patronize me regarding what I do or do not understand.  I'm not interested in debating the value of your beliefs or standards vs. mine.  

[Gary K]

3 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

Gary, if that's what you want to believe, that's fine.  But don't presume to patronize me regarding what I do or do not understand.  I'm not interested in debating the value of your beliefs or standards vs. mine.  

I am not trying to patronize you.  If God is the meeting point for both of our beliefs and standards, how can we do anything but come to a point of agreement at some point in time?  If you are one with Christ and I am one with Christ what is it we have in common?  Everything that comes from Christ.

[CoAspen]

From todays sermon.....'our special values and beliefs are less important than loving one another'. 

 

[Tom Wetmore]

In my experience, reacting negatively to such things as parody, satire, etc, is seldom helpful or productive use of ones energy or time.  If there presumed to be any truth to it by anyone, particularly the creator of it, the defensive reaction tends validate that point and expose a vulnerability.  It tends to encourage more of the same.  And a pattern of reacting (over-reacting may be more correct) every perceived slight or minor annoyance or inconsequential "attack" just creates a perception of being thin-skinned and peevish.

Better to smile and carry on with more important things...  IMHO.

[phkrause]

13 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

In my experience, reacting negatively to such things as parody, satire, etc, is seldom helpful or productive use of ones energy or time.  If there presumed to be any truth to it by anyone, particularly the creator of it, the defensive reaction tends validate that point and expose a vulnerability.  It tends to encourage more of the same.  And a pattern of reacting (over-reacting may be more correct) every perceived slight or minor annoyance or inconsequential "attack" just creates a perception of being thin-skinned and peevish.

Better to smile and carry on with more important things...  IMHO.

Even though I agree with you pretty much, there are times that I think it gets a little to sac-religious, at least for me.

[JoeMo]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:35 PM, Gary K said:

if I consistently ridiculed you through satire how long would I last here? 

I think thou confuseth satire with sarcasm (yes, they are synonymous but that doesn't make them equal)..  While I, too, think that barely Adventist crosses my "line" sometimes; for the most part I find it humorous.  I agree totally with Pam that the satire is good for pointing out little inconsistencies and weird quirks in the SDA church without being explicitly critical.

[B/W Photodude]

While I have in the past posted satire here at ClubAdventist, I think a bit different now.

Since the church is compared to the bride of Jesus, how do you think Jesus feels when satire is used against His bride? Does it fall into a violation of the 3rd commandment? Hopefully, this is not too simplistic, but could you sit next to Jesus and share the humor with Him? It is said sometimes "gallows" humor helps people to reduce stress. Really? There is no other way to "get over it"? Paul said to forbear (to be patient or self-controlled when subject to annoyance or provocation) one another. Just a thought ...

[CoAspen]

Duckbill platypus!

 

[Gary K]

On 2/13/2017 at 2:52 PM, JoeMo said:

I think thou confuseth satire with sarcasm (yes, they are synonymous but that doesn't make them equal)..  While I, too, think that barely Adventist crosses my "line" sometimes; for the most part I find it humorous.  I agree totally with Pam that the satire is good for pointing out little inconsistencies and weird quirks in the SDA church without being explicitly critical.

Well, someone around here is confused, but I don't think it is me. 

Quote

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)
Sarcasm Sar"casm, n. [F. sarcasme, L. sarcasmus, Gr.
   sarkasmo`s, from sarka`zein to tear flesh like dogs, to bite
   the lips in rage, to speak bitterly, to sneer, fr. sa`rx,
   sa`rkos, flesh.]
   A keen, reproachful expression; a satirical remark uttered
   with some degree of scorn or contempt; a taunt; a gibe; a
   cutting jest.
   [1913 Webster]