When will we walk on the ashes of the wicked?

[8thdaypriest]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Not at all. There is nothing in Scripture to support such an idea. According to the resurrection account in 1 The s 4  and other places, the resurrection only happens once, for  "the just" and once for the "unjust"  (Acts 24:15) Saying how we think God "must have to do something" is a long ways from Bible evidence, and correct interpretation thereof. We cannot "limit the Holy one of Israel" like this.

What happens to those raised at the Second Coming, to "shame and everlasting contempt" ??   Will they be raised AGAIN at the 8th millennium, to hear judgment against them AGAIN, and then be executed AGAIN?

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-- everyone whose name is found written in the book-- will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake:  

some to everlasting life,       others to shame and everlasting contempt." (NIV)

Isn't this the DAY for the resurrection of BOTH righteous and wicked?    Isn't this "the day of judgment" ? 

Acts 24:15 "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)

The BEAST is thrown alive into the Lake of Fire, at the Second Coming.   The BEAST is not just one person.  The BEAST is made up of thousands who have fought against the LORD and persecuted His people.   I don't believe the LORD will resurrect these people, just to throw them back into the fire. 

[8thdaypriest]

33 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Because citizenship in "Israel" is not ultimately about DNA.  

[JoeMo]

14 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Because citizenship in "Israel" is not ultimately about DNA.

 

10 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

thats actually not true either. The Bible would neither confirm or deny that specific comment.

I gotta go with Rachel on this.  When I read Romans 11, it seems perfectly clear that Israelites can be grafted back into the root; and Christians can be cut out.  A "true Israelite" at the end of time will by anyone who is grafted into the root - regardless of their ethnic origin.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again “8thday priest”,

On ‎15‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:47 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Because citizenship in "Israel" is not ultimately about DNA.  

What you say is true of spiritual Israel, but the world is made up of different nations, and in the Middle East we have such nations as Syria, Jordan, Israel and Egypt. When Christ returns he will convert and subjugate these nations, and they will become dominions under Christ the King who will reign from literal Jerusalem, upon the throne of David. Israel will be the first dominion, but others will also submit to the rule of Christ.

Micah 4:1-8 (KJV): ¹ But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. ² And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. ³ And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. ⁴ But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. ⁵ For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. ⁶ In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; ⁷ And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. ⁸ And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 19:22-25 (KJV): ²² And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them. ²³ In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. ²⁴ In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: ²⁵ Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

29 minutes ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again “8thday priest”,

What you say is true of spiritual Israel, but the world is made up of different nations, and in the Middle East we have such nations as Syria, Jordan, Israel and Egypt. When Christ returns he will convert and subjugate these nations, and they will become dominions under Christ the King who will reign from literal Jerusalem, upon the throne of David. Israel will be the first dominion, but others will also submit to the rule of Christ.

Micah 4:1-8 (KJV): ¹ But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. ² And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. ³ And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. ⁴ But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. ⁵ For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. ⁶ In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; ⁷ And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. ⁸ And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 19:22-25 (KJV): ²² And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them. ²³ In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. ²⁴ In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: ²⁵ Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

In my view - The TRUE fulfillment of this prophecy will happen at the 8th millennium - NOT the 7th. 

In my view Satan will make it appear that these prophecies are fulfilled  - for Hebrew/present DNA Israel.  He will "save" Israel from the attacking Muslim nations + Russia.  The Dome on the Mount will be destroyed in the war, and in its place a new Temple of Yahweh will be restored.   Sacrifices will be resumed.  He (Satan) will then appear - as "Messiah".   The nations will be amazed, and will totally accept him as Messiah come.   The fill get in line to do him honor.  He will subjugate all the nations.   "Israel" will reign over the nations. 

The "two witnesses" will be warning that this being is NOT Jesus returned.   They will face great persecution, and will finally be executed.  Three and a half days later, the REAL JESUS will show up.   

[TrevorL]

Greetings again “8thdaypriest”,

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

In my view - The TRUE fulfillment of this prophecy will happen at the 8th millennium - NOT the 7th. 

In my view Satan will make it appear that these prophecies are fulfilled  - for Hebrew/present DNA Israel.

What you seem to suggest is that a snapshot of present conditions is taken, and including the position of all the nations, then Christ destroys everything, burning up the earth for 1000 years. Christ then recreates everything as they were before he destroyed them, so the details could be fulfilled properly or correctly this time. Could you please supply a Scripture that teaches that there will be two fulfilments of these prophecies, one by Satan and the other by Christ?

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The "two witnesses" will be warning that this being is NOT Jesus returned.   They will face great persecution, and will finally be executed.  Three and a half days later, the REAL JESUS will show up.

I believe that the prophecy of the death/resurrection of the two witnesses relate to the period 1695-1790. The two witnesses were witnesses against the Catholic Church.

Kind regards Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/14/2017 at 6:43 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

What happens to those raised at the Second Coming, to "shame and everlasting contempt" ??   Will they be raised AGAIN at the 8th millennium, to hear judgment against them AGAIN, and then be executed AGAIN?

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-- everyone whose name is found written in the book-- will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake:  

some to everlasting life,       others to shame and everlasting contempt." (NIV)

Isn't this the DAY for the resurrection of BOTH righteous and wicked?    Isn't this "the day of judgment" ? 

Acts 24:15 "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)

The BEAST is thrown alive into the Lake of Fire, at the Second Coming.   The BEAST is not just one person.  The BEAST is made up of thousands who have fought against the LORD and persecuted His people.   I don't believe the LORD will resurrect these people, just to throw them back into the fire. 

2 Timothy 4:1 “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:”

Again, this looks like "a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" at the second coming. 

[8thdaypriest]

Jeremiah 31:40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown, and all the terraces out to the Kidron Valley on the east as far as the corner of the Horse Gate, will be holy to the LORD. The city will never again be uprooted or demolished." (NIV)

I read this last night.  It is in the prophecies of Jeremiah, concerning the destruction of JERUSALEM.   How many times has that city been destroyed and burned?   I had not thought of walking in the City as walking on the ashes of past destruction.  

I remembered the Valley of the Sons of Hinnom, (just outside the city limits of ancient Jerusalem) where human child sacrifices were offered by the kings of rebellious Judah (Jer 32:35).  That valley was cursed by God, in the prophecy of Jeremiah, and was later used for a garbage dump (otherwise known as Gehenna) where even the bodies of executed criminals were dumped.   The fires were kept burning there, turning everything to ashes.   Someday, this also will be under the area covered by the New Jerusalem - descended from Heaven. 

[8thdaypriest]

Jeremiah 31:40  "The city will never again be uprooted or demolished." (NIV)

But in 70AD, the city WAS demolished.   Sorta tells us today, that this prophecy of Jeremiah has an application AFTER the Babylonian destruction, and possibly AFTER the destruction of 70AD also.   And if this prophecy has a later application/fulfillment, then other prophecies of Jeremiah would also - including return prophecies.   Jerusalem could be destroyed - once again - in the final day,  to be restored once again by Christ. 

The Jews of 70AD used this prophecy of Jeremiah - that the city would "never again" be demolished - to convince the people to fight against, and hold out against the Romans.   But they got it wrong.   It didn't apply to them - at that time. 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again “7thday priest”,

32 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Jeremiah 31:40  "The city will never again be uprooted or demolished." (NIV)

But in 70AD, the city WAS demolished.   Sorta tells us today, that this prophecy of Jeremiah has an application AFTER the Babylonian destruction, and possibly AFTER the destruction of 70AD also.   And if this prophecy has a later application/fulfillment, then other prophecies of Jeremiah would also - including return prophecies.   Jerusalem could be destroyed - once again - in the final day,  to be restored once again by Christ. 

The Jews of 70AD used this prophecy of Jeremiah - that the city would "never again" be demolished - to convince the people to fight against, and hold out against the Romans.   But they got it wrong.   It didn't apply to them - at that time. 

Zechariah 14 clearly states that at the time of Armageddon that Jerusalem will again be captured, and remarkably as far as the present controversy concerning East and West Jerusalem that half of the city shall go forth into captivity. Then Yahweh will intervene and fight against those nations, and then as a result Yahweh will be king over all the earth, and the Temple will be established. This is when Jerusalem will never be destroyed again. This can only be speaking of the second coming of Christ and his 1000 year reign upon the earth, soon to be realised.

Zechariah 14:1-3,9,16,20-21 (KJV): ¹ Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. ² For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. ³ Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. ⁹ And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. ¹⁶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. ²⁰ In that day shall there be upon the bells^f of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD’S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. ²¹ Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

There is definitely no 1000 year gap in the above prophecy, required by your speculations.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

4 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Zechariah 14 clearly states that at the time of Armageddon that Jerusalem will again be captured, and remarkably as far as the present controversy concerning East and West Jerusalem that half of the city shall go forth into captivity.

Very interesting - concerning East vs West Jerusalem. 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again “8thdaypriest”,

9 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Very interesting - concerning East vs West Jerusalem.

The present dispute concerning Jerusalem may have some bearing on what Zechariah’s prophecy specifically states that half of the city will go into captivity. Some suggest that West Jerusalem should be Israel’s capital, but only acknowledged when East Jerusalem is also declared as Palestine’s capital. Many in Israel on the other hand claim that the whole of Jerusalem is Israel’s undivided capital, and to strengthen their claim they will build more housing in East Jerusalem. Some Palestinians would like to see Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, and if they had an opportunity, expel Israel altogether from Jerusalem. How all of this will develop, and how and when the nations become more involved is yet to be seen. It could flare up at a moments’ notice, or it could settle down for a number of years. I doubt that SDAs see any real significance with the problems concerning Jerusalem, as they somehow believe that the real latter day problems will concern Sabbath keeping and then the earth will be burnt for 1000 years. The details of Zechariah 14 are ignored.

Kind regards
Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

I read through Zechariah Cpt 14 and feel as if I am taken through successive period of time, involving different attacks upon Jerusalem. 

"The day of the LORD is coming"  WHEN the city falls - or at least half the city falls to an enemy. 

Do we know for certain exactly WHEN this prophecy was written?  

Is it possible this was written before the Babylonians attacked?   Because the Babylonians left a remnant of the poorest people still in the City and wiped out (or took as captives) only the upper classes. 

There "the day of the LORD" seems to apply to the destruction, not what follows after.  

v. 3  THEN the LORD goes forth to fight against the nations.  He stands on the Mount of Olives.  The topography is changed.   People in the City flee. 

 

THEN:  Living waters flow from Jerusalem.  And the LORD is King over all the earth, ruling from Jerusalem. 

v. 12 seems to go BACK to the attack upon the enemies who were fighting against Jerusalem.  - describing the plagues that hit them, which seem rather lethal, with eyes dissolving in their sockets.  (Seems rather nuclear to me.)  The enemies are so panicked, that they fight against one another.

 

THEN - starting in v.16  the text describes problems with those left AFTER the big battle. 

v.  16  "Everyone who is left - of all the nations which came against Jerusalem"  - who are these people?? 

Aren't these "the remnant" - what's left?   But are they what's left of "the nations"  OR what's left of Israel?    (To me) Seems like what's left "of all the nations". 

Are these survivors?   Of this "day of the LORD" ? 

OR - Is it possible these may be "the rest of the dead" - the ones who are not resurrected or judged at the Second Coming, but rather are resurrected 1000 years later?   

This is more my thinking.  But I am open.  I do NOT dismiss this prophecy.  I include it.  It fits with my understanding of the 8th millennium. 

 

In verse 16 to 19, the problem (family of Egypt not coming up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles) arises from this "rest" - the remnant left "of all the nations". 

The nations are invited to "come up" and "enter in" OR they "receive the plague".  Some of these people refuse the invitation to come up to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles.  

Anciently Tabernacles WAS the Feast to which Gentiles were invited. 

These people receive a "plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast". 

"They shall have no rain." 

At the Feast of Tabernacles, there was a special prayer for rain, for the coming year.    And "rain" is often a symbol for the Holy Spirit. 

The "family of Egypt" was a name of the "mixed multitude".   There was a "mixed multitude" who left Egypt with Israel following Moses, and there was a "mixed multitude" that followed Ezra/Nehemiah and the captives returning to Jerusalem from Medo/Persia.   It seems that at every return, there is a mixed multitude, and they are always the instigators of trouble. 

I believe these are the people, who will be deceived by the Evil One (released at the end of 1000 years), who will join together in a great army of Gog/Magog, for one last attack on Jerusalem, against Christ and His rule. 

The question I'm trying to answer for myself, is whether those redeemed at the Second Coming will remain on the earth during the 7th millennium, or will spend that millennium in the Holy City - in the Heavenly realm.   I do know that Satan will be imprisoned during the 7th millennium.   I do know that "the rest of the dead" will remain dead, during that millennium. 

I can tell you that it does not matter to me, where I spend that millennium (on earth or in Heaven), so long as I spend it where Jesus is. 

John saw them standing on the "Sea of Glass".   That crystal sea is "before the throne of God in Heaven".   So it appears they WILL go to the Heavenly realm for some period of time.   Perhaps it will only be for the period during which the last plagues are poured out on earth.   Then they will come back, to rebuild and restore.   It's possible.  

 

 

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again “8thdaypriest”,

42 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Do we know for certain exactly WHEN this prophecy was written?  

Is it possible this was written before the Babylonians attacked?   Because the Babylonians left a remnant of the poorest people still in the City and wiped out (or took as captives) only the upper classes. 

Zechariah was a prophet after the 70 years exile in Babylon, and he was instrumental in encouraging the people to build the Temple. The prophecy applies only to the second coming of Christ and his 1000 years reign upon the earth shortly after this return.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[JoeMo]

14 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The question I'm trying to answer for myself, is whether those redeemed at the Second Coming will remain on the earth during the 7th millennium, or will spend that millennium in the Holy City - in the Heavenly realm.   I do know that Satan will be imprisoned during the 7th millennium.   I do know that "the rest of the dead" will remain dead, during that millennium. 

I can tell you that it does not matter to me, where I spend that millennium (on earth or in Heaven), so long as I spend it where Jesus is. 

[8thdaypriest]

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

 Glad Joe.  

At this point, I believe that any "survivors" of "the nations" - from this age (under the dominion of Satan) will "live again" AFTER the 1000 years of the 7th millennium.  

They are called "everyone who is left of the nations" because the others have been permanently judged and annihilated.   They are of "the nations" - not - "the people" of God.  

Those who are "left" - of the nations - live again after the 1000 years.   This is when Israel redeemed will "rule the nations" as priests under Christ Jesus. 

The redeemed must be prepared and educated to become priests.   I don't believe that happens in an instant, or in a day, or in a week.  It will take time, before the redeemed are ready to govern the nations.  They have a lot to learn, and a lot of healing to experience.  This can happen in the heavenly realm, or on planet earth - whichever. 

I believe the 7 last plagues WILL kill all life on planet earth.  ALL.   That is why the redeemed are removed from the earth before those plagues are unleashed.   (Like LOT was removed from Sodom, and Noah was shut inside the ark before it started to rain.   I do not believe that Christ destroys everything.   I believe it will be the forces of Evil,  nuclear bombs unleashed, and perhaps an asteroid hit also.   The spirit of God is removed from the earth.  That Spirit is life.  Without that Spirit, there can be no life.   

How soon the redeemed are returned to planet earth, we do not know for certain.   Could be 1 year after - like Noah with his family.  We just don't know. 

The resurrection at the end of the 1000 years, will be the greatest ever seen.   These people will make up whole nations, all over the earth.   Millions and millions of them (I believe) will be children.   They will sense immediately, that they have awakened in a paradise.   The earth will be green and whole.  The animals will be tame.   And there will be teacher guides - with immortal spiritual bodies, and a glorious King will be reigning from a City called Jerusalem.    They could not help but know this is NOT the same earth they used to live in. 

Why some would rebel - yet again - in this lovely place - is beyond me.  

[JoeMo]

Rachel,

As you know, I lean towards the 7th millennium taking place here on earth; and that there will be "survivors" after the 7 last plagues over whom we will rule as priests and kings.  But - like you - I don't really care where we are during the millennium, as long as I'm there.  My biggest concern is "Am I ready for Jesus to come?"  Are you ready for Jesus to come?  I know you are.  Hope to see you in the Kingdom.  Heaven wouldn't be the same without you.

[8thdaypriest]

At the glorious return, the redeemed will be changed when they receive new "spiritual bodies".   Would this not enable them to go instantly back and forth between the spirit realm/dimension and the physical dimension?   What need therefore to stay only in the physical dimension?   They could "live" at the Holy City in the Heavenly dimension, and also spend a great deal of time in the physical dimension, rebuilding and restoring the earth.    Just a thought.

[TrevorL]

Greetings The Wanderer,

8 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

where are all these "milleniums" in the Bible? I dont see them any where. I have tried so far two Bible versions, and I do not even find that word anywhere in them.

I find no trouble in calling the following the 7th Millennium:

Revelation 20:6 (KJV): Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Do you need further information to explain why the start of this is considered by many to be somewhere about 6000 years after the creation?

Kind regards
Trevor

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Wanderer,

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Just because you "have no trouble" with it, does not make it Biblical.

I agree, but the 1000 years is definitely mentioned in Revelation 20:6, and 1000 years is another way of saying millennium. There have been various attempts at a chronology based on many of the dates provided in the Bible. James Usher in 1650 came up with the date BC 4004 for the creation and this has been well known by many older writers. I used my search engine in the Logos 7 program, and it returned 1487 results in 42 resources for "BC4004" from the scanned books available.  Now if we take this as being somewhere near the mark, allowing for some discrepancy, then when we add 2017 to this we should be near the start of the 7th Millennium.

Edward Gibbon who wrote the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire in 1776-1788 has the following to say about the Millennium:

“The ancient and popular doctrine of the Millennium, was intimately connected with the second coming of Christ. As the works of creation had been finished in six days, their duration, in their present state, according to a tradition which was attributed to the prophet Elijah, was fixed to six thousand years. By the same analogy it was inferred that this long period of labor and contention, which was now almost elapsed (as they supposed), would be succeeded by a joyful Sabbath of a thousand years; and that Christ, with the triumphant band of the Saints and the elect who had escaped death, or who had been miraculously revived, would reign upon earth till the time appointed for the last and general resurrection. So pleasing was this hope to the minds of believers, that the New Jerusalem, the seat of this blissful kingdom, was quickly adorned with all the gayest colors of the imagination. A felicity consisting only of pure and spiritual pleasure would have appeared too refined for its inhabitants, who were still supposed to possess their human nature and senses. A garden of Eden with the amusements of pastoral life, was no longer suited to the advanced state of society which prevailed under the Roman Empire. A city was therefore erected, of gold and precious stones, and a supernatural plenty of corn and wine was bestowed on the adjacent territory; in the free enjoyment of whose spontaneous productions, the happy and benevolent people was never to be restrained by any jealous laws of exclusive property. The assurance of such a millennium was carefully inculcated by a succession of fathers, from Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, who conversed with the immediate disciples of the apostles, down to Lactantius, who was preceptor to the son of Constantine. Though it might not be universally received, it appears to have been the reigning sentiment of the orthodox believers; and it seems so well adapted to the desires and apprehensions of mankind, that it must have contributed in a very considerable degree to the progress of the Christian faith. But when the edifice of the church was almost completed, the temporary support was laid aside. The doctrine of Christ’s reign upon earth was at first treated as a profound allegory, was considered by degrees as a doubtful and useless opinion, and was at length rejected as the absurd invention of heresy and fanaticism. A mysterious prophecy (the Apocalypse) which still forms a part of the sacred canon, but which was thought to favor the exploded sentiment, has very narrowly escaped the proscription of the church.”

So the concept of the 7th Millennium has been around for some time, and I will leave you to accept or reject this concept. Another slight confirmation is that Jesus, the true light, appeared on the scene 4000 years after the creation. If we add 2000 years to the time of his ministry rather than his birth, say AD27-31, we could see the return of Christ to establish the Kingdom of God on the earth in approximately 10 years. But many who have suggested dates before have been disappointed. On the other hand Christ could easily come earlier, especially as we see many of the signs being fulfilled and others in progress or preparation.

Kind regards Trevor

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Wanderer,

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Its a pretty big stretch of the Biblical text to support 7 or 8 or whatever number of milleniums one wants to conjure up.  Just because something has "been around for sometime," does not by any stretch make it actually so.

There is one other basis and this is Biblical. Hebrews 3-4 considers Joshua bringing the children of Israel into the Promised Land coupled with the concept of rest. This is linked and compared with the Sabbath, the seventh day and the days of creation. It speaks of the future “day” of rest as a Sabbath. Although it does not say directly the future Sabbath will be the 7th Millennium, this is a reasonable inference.

 

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

This is exactly where falsehoods and counterfeight "Biblical" doctrine will lead people to. Time setting, has also  "been around for sometime." Any doctrine, so called that even flirts around the edges of time setting, as this stement does; it is wrong, Jesus told us not to go there.

I consider some of the prophetic dates to be a good guide to events. Some time periods have been correctly anticipated from these prophetic dates. The 70 weeks prophecy could well have prepared many to anticipate the first advent. I hold strongly to the 2300 years from BC334-333 to 1967, for me (and others – I attended a Daniel class in 1965 and have a copy of my notes in my Bible) slightly before the event, and some years afterwards to a strong conviction. Many other dates have been fulfilled. The fulfillment is usually much more detailed and significant than what is anticipated.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

Regarding any survivors on the earth following the 7 last plagues:

Hebrews 1:10-12  [This is God the Father speaking to His Son.]   "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; 12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail." (NKJ)

I do not see how any human being - left on the earth - could possibly SURVIVE when "the heavens" perish, and are folded up like a worn out garment to be thrown on the fire pile (That's what we do with them.) 

While I do think it possible - during the 7th millennium - for the redeemed (with spiritual bodies like angels) to return to the earth to do some rebuilding and repair,  I do NOT believe there will be any people, still with mortal bodies, living here.  At least not until the 8th millennium, after the Lord Jesus has healed and restored.

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/26/2017 at 2:52 PM, The Wanderer said:

where are all these "milleniums" in the Bible? I dont see them any where. I have tried so far two Bible versions, and I do not even find that word anywhere in them..

From the google dictionary:

mil·len·ni·um

məˈlenēəm/

noun

noun: millennium; plural noun: millennia; plural noun: millenniums

1. 1.

   a period of a thousand years, especially when calculated from the traditional date of the birth of Christ.

   • Christian Theology

     the prophesied thousand-year reign of Christ at the end of the age (Rev. 20:1–5).

     noun: the millennium
   • a utopian period of good government, great happiness, and prosperity.

     noun: the millennium
2. 2.

   an anniversary of a thousand years.

   "the millennium of the Russian Orthodox Church"

[8thdaypriest]

 Revelation 20:2  "He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;  and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while." (NKJ)

Revelation 20:7 "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison"

Revelation 20:4  "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (NKJ)

Every time you see "thousand years" you can legitimately substitute "millennium". 

The reason why many believe Christ will return at the end of SIX thousand years, is because - while Satan is imprisoned - the earth will rest.  It is a Sabbath for the earth.  It was prophesied by the year of rest - the sabbatical year, which was every 7th year according to the Lord's command.  Nothing was planted and nothing was sown. 

THAT helps to convince me that no one (other than the redeemed - who are removed from earth) will survive the last plagues.  Sowing and reaping was a metaphor for teaching the Gospel, and reaping is done at the "harvest" (used by Christ as a metaphor for what He will gather at His return).    If no teaching of the Gospel (sowing) can be done during the millennium which follows "the harvest" (which is the end of the age - Matt 13:39)  because it is a "rest" millennium,  it follows that there is no one left alive to teach. 

Weeds of course, are "sown" by the Devil. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

Well, I was asking about Bible references for evidence; but its like I said, there are none.

You mean Bible references that use the word "millennium".  

Why would translators use that word, when the original uses the Greek word for "thousand"  and the word for "years" (χίλια ἔτη) ? 

The word "millennium" is from the Latin, which was not used when John wrote the Revelation.