Job

[Robert]

...Let’s look at another case study of repentance from self-righteousness. This one may create a bit of a problem in your mind, because I want to give a nontraditional interpretation to a familiar person in the Bible. Let’s look at the story of a man who appears in the oldest book of the Bible – the book of Job.

I’ve wrestled with the book of Job for a long time. I could never see why God allowed Satan to mistreat Job so badly and why Job had to go through all those terrible crises without any purpose other than to prove to Satan that God was right. To me, that didn’t seem to be enough; the whole story somehow didn’t seem to fit with what I knew of God’s character. Then one day I was reading The Desire of Ages, and I came across these words: “The history of Job had shown that suffering is inflicted by Satan, and is overruled by God for purposes of mercy” (471). But Ellen White didn’t say exactly what that merciful purpose was in Job’s case. The only way I could find out was to read and study and wrestle with the book of Job for myself.

When I began studying the book closely, I discovered that Job himself had a problem. At first, it was hard to accept what I was learning, because it completely contradicted what I had always understood about Job. I had always had the picture that we get from the very first verse of the book. It say that Job, “was blameless and upright, and one who feared god and shunned evil" (Job 1:1, NKJV). This description of job is repeated in verse 8 when God is having a dialogue with Satan. “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears god and shuns evil?” (NKJV)

And Satan replies, “Yes, but he does all this because You have built a hedge around him. Remove Your protection, and give him into my hands. You’ll see what he will do then. He will deny You and reject You. He will turn his back on You” (se verses 9-11).

So God said, “You can have him. Everything he possesses is in your power, but you can’t touch his body. You can’t kill him.” Immediately, Satan set out to destroy everything Job had – including his children (see verses 13-19). How would you react after losing your children and everything you owned? Job “tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshipped”. And he said, “naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave and the lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the lord.” (Verses 20,21, NKJV).

Job didn’t turn his back on God. He was righteous person. But this is the crucial question: Was his righteousness the righteousness of faith, or was it the righteousness of works? We need to look closely at his experience in order to determine the answer to this question, because I believe we will find in Job’s story similarities to your own situation as Laodicea.

In chapter 2, God and Satan have a second conversation regarding Job. Satan says to God, “All right, Job hasn’t rejected You yet. But let me touch him – not just his possessions or his children. Let me get his own body in my hands, he will deny You then!” And God replied, “Go ahead. He is in you hands, but you can’t kill him.”

Satan caused Job to break out in terrible boils from head to foot. At this point, Job’s wife had had enough. “Do you still hold to YOUR integrity?” she asked. “’Curse God and die!’” (Job 2:9, NKJV, emphasis supplied). But Job didn’t listen. “In all this Job did not sin with his lips” (verse 10, NKJV).

Three new characters enter the story, the so-called friends of Job – Eliphaz, Bidad, and Zophar. The arguments of these “comforters” are typical of the Eastern mentality regarding human suffering. All through the book, they are arguing that Job’s intense sufferings are the result of some secret sin in his life. “You wouldn’t be in the condition, Jo, if there wasn’t something wrong in your spiritual life. God wouldn’t be punishing you like this otherwise.”

Does God punish us like that? Does He cause us to suffer physically for our sins? No. We need to remember that the arguments of Job’s friends are based oh human reasoning, not biblical truth. That is why God rebukes them in the end. They were misrepresenting His character. But the important element in this story is Job’s reaction to all this. He doesn’t reject their reasoning regarding punishment for sin, but instead he defends his righteousness. That is why Job is so puzzled. Like his friends, he, too, believes that the wicked will suffer and the righteous prospers in this life. Yet he is suffering in spite of being righteous! That is what Job cannot understand.

“Teach me, and I will hold my tongue, cause me to understand where in I have erred.’”…He defends his righteousness before his friends. He is saying, “Where have I gone wrong” Show me what sin you are accusing me of. I am blameless, even though I am suffering.”

By the time we reach chapter 10, Job is defending his righteousness to God Himself. “I will say to God, ‘Do not condemn me; show me why You contend with me….You know that I am not wicked.’” Actually, Job is quite confident that his righteousness is perfect. “God,” Job says, “these friends of mine are accusing me of some secret sin. Show me where I am wrong. I would really like to know what my sin is.” Of course, Job was convinced of his righteousness; he didn’t think he was guilty of sin.

Was there some secrete sin in Job’s life that was the cause of his suffering? No. But did Job have a problem? Yes.

Job continues to insist on his own righteousness and to defend himself against the accusations of his friends. They keep saying, “Job, you must have some secret sin in your life; look how you’re suffering.”

And Job argues back, “No, I have not sinned. I have kept God’s commandments; I have held to my integrity.” Notice what he says in chapter 23. “My foot has held fast to His steps; I have kept His way and not turned aside. I have not departed from the commandment of His lips; I have treasured the words of His mouth more than my necessary food’” (verses 11,12 NKJV)

Does this sound like a man who has been justified by faith? Or does it sound like a man who is confident of his own righteousness, who is self-righteous?

By chapter 31, Job is strongly defending his own righteousness. He calls upon God to judge him. ”Let me be weighed in a just balance, that God may know my integrity.” (Verse 9, NKJV). He goes onto list the good works he has habitually done – fed the hungry, clothed the naked, cared for orphans and widows, and opened his home to the homeless. This chapter is Job's final argument against the accusations of his three friends. “So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1, NKJV).

This was Job’s problem – he was righteous in his own eyes. He was sincere; he was honest. But he had a problem he didn’t recognize. The book of Job is a historical account of God’s first lesson on righteousness by faith. Let’s see how this is so.

[:"red"]After Job’s three friends quite arguing with him, a fourth man steps in – Elihu. He asks Job, ”Do you think this is right? Do you say, My righteousness is more than God’s?” (Job 35:2, NKJV) Elihu has put his finger on an important point. He isn’t trying to convince Job that his problem is sin, as did the other three friends. He is trying to convince Job that his problem is self-righteousness. And he continues this argument until chapter 38, when God steps in at last to settle the matter.[/]

If you read from chapter 38 to the end of the book, you’ll find that God rebukes Job’s three friends for their mistaken theology. They argued, “Job, you must be a sinner. The fact that you are suffering is proof of sin in your life because God punishes those who do bad things.”….

But God also rebukes Job. “Who is this who darkens counsel by words ("I am blameless") without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.” (Job 38:2,3, NKJV). God rebukes Job for his self-righteous attitude.

And notice that Job repents. ”Then Job answered the Lord and said: [:"red"]Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.”[/] (Job 40:3,4, NKJV) God’s words silenced Job’s pretensions to righteousness. Job’s problem was self-righteousness. His attitude was that of the rich young ruler who came to Jesus saying, “All these things have I kept form my youth up” (Matt 19:20). Job was so focused all the good things he did and the lack of sinful things in his life the he couldn’t recognize the source of his righteousness was self rather than God. But when he came face to face with God, he admitted, “I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know….Therefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42:3,6, NKJV)

What was it that Job had not understood? He had not understood that his self-righteousness was mere filthy rags in God' sight. But when he came face to face with his self-righteous condition, he abhorred himself and repented....

Repentance from self-righteousness is terribly painful because we have to swallow our pride - our spiritual pride. The things we have looked to as evidences of our goodness, we have to see as monuments to self......

God didn't enjoy putting Job through this crisis, but Job had a lesson to learn, and this drastic method was the only way to teach him. When the lesson was complete and Job was fully converted, God was able to bless him....He restored his health, his possessions and his children.

[Dr. Shane]

However Job was not punished due to his self-righteousness. If he was, then his three "friends" were right. He was punished due to a secret sin.

No, Satan was allowed to inflict injury on Job for the same reason that he was allowed to tempt Adam and Eve in the Garden. God is on trial. This is one of the stories that best illistrates the great controversy between God and Satan.

The fact that God was able to use the affliction of Satan on Job to show Job his issues with self-righteousness goes to show that God can grant us a blessing out of any circumstance. What Satan meant for evil, God used for good. The lesson against self-righteousness is only one of the small lessons the story of Job holds for us. The big lesson of the story is the great controversy.

Note also that Job was not depending on his own righteousness for his salvation. "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" (Job 19:25) Obviously if he needed a Redeemer he must have needed to be redeemed.

[melvin mccarty]

You know what really upsets me about the book of Job? We are supposed to believe that something was proved by these discussions but no one ever has any compassion for all of those widows and orphans that were left by the slaughter of all Job's hired help and the families of his children. Why were they mistreated so badly?

The story does not represent the actions of a loving God at all. I can only reconcile by viewing the book as a teaching tool and not a factual account. Is this the kind of a God you could love?

mel

[Dr. Shane]

To me it does just the opposite. The book of Job is the key to understanding why bad things can happen with a God of love ruling the universe.

Satan made a charge in heaven. He claims he could do a better job of being supreme ruler than God. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isa. 14:13, 14)

Rather than destroy him in a second God pledged, "I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee." (Ezk. 28:17, 18)

That is the stage when the first act of Job begins. Notice how Adam is called in the geneolgy of Jesus. "Adam, which was the son of God." (Luke 3:38) However since Adam died, Satan has become the "prince of this world" (John 12:31.) It is in that light we see him showing up in heaven.

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them." (Job 1:6) Since God created "worlds" (Heb. 1:2) it is likely that these sons of God were the leaders from the various unfallen worlds. Adam couldn't show up since he had sinned and died.

It seems that Satan desires to take Adam's spot but notice God's question. "Whence comest thou?" God does not recognize that Satan has a right to attend the meeting. Satan answers, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." But God still does not concede to him. "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

This is a little window into the great controvesy between Christ and Satan. Satan is the "accuser of our brethren" (Rev. 12:10). In this story he accuses Job specifically but God generally. God lets bad things happen to good people becuase He is exposing Satan to all the universe. "I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.", He has told him.

[olger]

Good points. Those among us who have lost loved ones might indeed struggle with the pain of death, yet we can trust in our God who will right every wrong when this conflict is over. The Great Controversy is the key to life's questions.

I can accept the possibility that Job's faith grew throughout this process. Suffering produces beauty.

gcw

[Robert]

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melvin mccarty said:

...no one ever has any compassion for all of those widows and orphans that were left by the slaughter of all Job's hired help and the families of his children.

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They were under Job's care...under his jurisdiction.

When God abandoned Job, because of his persistent self-righteousness, those living under him suffered also.

Let's say God abandoned New Orleans because of the wickedness there....Did the just suffer with the wicked? Yes...why? They came under the jurisdiction of that State.

Clearly it was not God that caused Job and his extended family all the suffering, even though God gets the blame.

God knew Job would not let go of his "integrity". That's why I believe that God's opening statement (see Job 1:8) is His summation of how Job viewed Himself and not how God actually perceived him. Because of Job's view, Job essentially didn't need God. He was a good man - He was a righteous man - in his own eyes....Therefore, God had too partially abandon him...

[Robert]

By the way, because of my legalism and self-righteousness (years ago) my family suffered, even though they didn't buy into my mistaken theology. Why? They were under my jurisdiction.

[Dr. Shane]

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When God abandoned Job, because of his persistent self-righteousness

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This is not what the book of Job teaches. This is the theology of Job's three friends and of the Pharisees. It says, God blesses the good and punishes the wicked.

The whole point of the story of Job is that bad things do happen to good people even though God is a God of love. The fact that Job seems to have discovered a charachter defect as a result of his sufferings does not mean that his sufferings were a result of that charachter defect.

[olger]

"The whole point of the story of Job is that bad things do happen to good people even though God is a God of love. The fact that Job seems to have discovered a charachter defect as a result of his sufferings does not mean that his sufferings were a result of that charachter defect."

Most excellent,

The honest roofer

[melvin mccarty]

Many people have "disovered" defects of character and even signed confessions under extreme torture and taunts by their persecutors. Nope I dont believe in the God that is portrayed in the book of Job...you can have him.

mel

[melvin mccarty]

Robert those women and children (if the story is factual) were real people and you are willing to think of them as just pawns in a celestial chess game?

mel

[Robert]

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Shane said:

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When God abandoned Job, because of his persistent self-righteousness

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This is not what the book of Job teaches. This is the theology of Job's three friends and of the Pharisees....

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It was the 4th man, Elihu, that got it right.

The one sin that Christ didn't take to the cross was the sin of unbelief. "Self-righteousness" is the sin of unbelief, for only sinners need a Savior. Who said that? Jesus:

"It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous [context: the self-righteous], but sinners.”

The Pharisees and many of the Jews of Christ time didn't need Him because they measured themselves by the letter of the law. They were good people in their own eyes. They persistently rejected their need of Christ. What was the result of their persistent unbelief?

Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling. 38 “Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"

In 70 AD Roman destroyed Jerusalem. Why? God was not wanted and He removed Himself from a stiff-necked people. The result? Trouble! Who did it? Not God, Satan through Roman. God doesn't kill...man destroyed Himself.

Unlike the Jews, Job was a subtle legalist. He believed in God, yet he wouldn't give up on his self-righteous. So God had to partially abandon Him. If God had abandoned Job he would have died.

[Robert]

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melvin mccarty said:

Robert those women and children (if the story is factual) were real people and you are willing to think of them as just pawns in a celestial chess game?

mel

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God doesn't play games, yet we are in the GC between Christ and Satan.

I don't know the state of belief of Job's extended family. The book of Job doesn't touch on that....Your point?

Rob

[Dr. Shane]

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Note also that Job was not depending on his own righteousness for his salvation. "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" (Job 19:25) Obviously if he needed a Redeemer he must have needed to be redeemed.

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Job was not relying on his own works to secure his salvation. If he was, he wouldn't have needed a redeemer.

[Dr. Shane]

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Unlike the Jews, Job was a subtle legalist. He believed in God, yet he wouldn't give up on his self-righteous. So God had to partially abandon Him.

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This demonstrates the failure to grasp the message of Job. Job did nothing to deserve what happened to him. Sometimes bad things happen to good people because of the devil's role in the great controversy.

[melvin mccarty]

My point...since God does not play games and I believe does not treat his friends as portrayed in the book of Job I conclude that the book is an allegory and was written to show that we cannot jodge anyone's spiritual condition by their circumstances. Like the parable of the rich man and Lazurus it is not to be taken as literal or a portrayal of what God is like.

mel

[Dr. Shane]

Martin Luther didn't believe the book of James or parts of Revelation were inspired either because he didn't like what they said.

For those that enjoy poetry and classic literature, Job is perhaps the most enjoyable book in the Bible to read. The best word I have to describe it is magnificent.

[melvin mccarty]

Oh certainly Shane I have no problem to agree with you there. I see it as an inspired allegory intended to teach certain truths and my reason as before stated is that I could not honor or worship a God who would treat his friends that way. The book has all the markings of an allegory including the strange ending. Perhaps you would like to address these issues?

mel

[Robert]

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Shane said:

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Unlike the Jews, Job was a subtle legalist. He believed in God, yet he wouldn't give up on his self-righteous. So God had to partially abandon Him.

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This demonstrates the failure to grasp the message of Job. Job did nothing to deserve what happened to him. Sometimes bad things happen to good people because of the devil's role in the great controversy.

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Your perceptions of good are tainted by your failure to see the spirit of God's law. If you understood it you would agree with Paul and Christ when they stated, "There is none good, no, not even one."

That was Job's problem...and it seems nothing could convince him otherwise. That's why God left....He never forces Himself on anyone.

Rob

[Robert]

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God does not play games and I believe does not treat his friends as portrayed in the book of Job

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What does that mean?

[Robert]

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melvin mccarty said:

...I could not honor or worship a God who would treat his friends that way.

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I could not...and would not worship a god who forced...no coerced, His love and protection on me against my will, no matter how stupid I might be acting.

Your view is typical of a god who forces....Is that what you want? If so God should have never created Lucifer for He knew Lucifer would create the principle of "self" or sin! God in His love can do no other then allow "free-will"....He believes in freedom of choice without coercion.

If I am fully convinced that I am "good" man sooner or later I will not need His Son vindicating me in the heavenly places. That process is called hardening one's heart.

Job was on this kick....I am sure God, out of His kindness, patiently worked with Job. But, like the Pharisees of old, Job would not listen. He didn't need God's righteousness...he was a righteous man, but in his own eyes. Because of this God was forced to remove Himself and Satan came in swinging.

Here are some examples of God removing himself because of unbelief:

For the Lord will pass through to strike the Egyptians: and when He sees the blood on the doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and not allow the destroyer [the devil] to come into your houses to strike you (Exodus 12:23)

The Egyptians persistently rejected their need of God until they ultimately rejected the only remedy for sin, the blood of Christ. That's what the blood on the doorpost stood for. We are justified through His blood....Yet they rejected God's gift through this symbol. They, in their pride, chose death. That night the firstborn died....

Why? God was forced out....

Got God, got life....Get self-righteous, lose God...get death.

[Dr. Shane]

The term good is a relative term - not an absolute term. When someone says bad things happen to good people they are not refering to sinnless people that have no faults or defects of charachter. They are talking about people that have done nothing bad enough to deserve the bad circumstance they find themselves in.

An example of this would be the good people who die on a ship when it sinks, a plane when it crashes or huricane when it strikes. Or the good people that lose their job because a corrupt CEO causes the company to go bankrupt.

We find another such story in John 9:

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1. And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3. Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

4. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

5. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

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[Robert]

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Shane said:

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Unlike the Jews, Job was a subtle legalist. He believed in God, yet he wouldn't give up on his self-righteous. So God had to partially abandon Him.

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This demonstrates the failure to grasp the message of Job.

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Tell me, why did Job repent if something wasn’t wrong with his spotless life?

What was Job's claim?

Answer: Job 31:5 "let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless...."

BTW, that was Saul the Pharisee's claim before becoming paul the great champion of righteousness by faith:

"As to righteousness under the law blameless." [Phil 3:6]

So Job claimed to be "blameless"! As I stated, "Elihu" pin points Job's sin....He justifies himself....That is the sin of self-righteousness!

Finally God has to approach Job: What did Job say to God..."God, I am blameless"? No! Let's read that again:

Job 40:4 “Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth….

Note Job has ceased from bragging of his righteousness! He covers his mouth because he has learned not to brag....

Then he repents:

Job 42:6 “Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”

[Dr. Shane]

Job was not to blame for what happened to him. The book itself tells us that. When Satan showed up in heaven he was challenged by God. When he claimed his right to be there came from his position on earth God pointed to Job who was perfect and upright. It doesn't say why Job was perfect and upright. Maybe... just maybe... he had been redeemed by his Redeemer. Thus he was covered with the robe of Christ's righteousness. Getting caught up in that will cause one to miss the point of the story.

[Robert]

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Shane said:

Job was not to blame for what happened to him.

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Then the Jews, who refused Christ through persistent self-righteousness, were not to blame when they were destroyed in 70AD.

Rob