The Promise of the Land to Abraham and his Seed Genesis 13:14–15

[stinsonmarri]

On 9/6/2018 at 12:10 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Stinsonmarri,

I was asking you to compare the corresponding phrase in Hebrews 10:5 with that in Psalm 40:6:

Psalm 40:6 (KJV): Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV): Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

I was not disagreeing with what Paul states in Hebrews 10:5. I was disagreeing with your interpretation of what Paul says. I suggest that we need to understand Psalm 40:6 first, then this gives the basis to understand what Paul is saying in Hebrews 10:5. Your view in inconsistent with Psalm 40:6 and hence your view of Hebrews 10:5 is incorrect.

Matthew 1:20 (KJV): But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg: Gr. begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Kind regards Trevor

Trevor kindly I do not interpreter the Bible. "but A BODY hast THOU prepared ME. " Paul is talking about YAHSHUA and HIS sacrifice was the real thing. That animals could never take away sin only a sinless body. Paul now quotes who, himself? No YAHSHUA which is the what the Text is referring too. I read a BODY, do you read something different? I also read that YAHSHUA clearly says THOU, referring to HIS FATHER who prepared for HIM  A BODY! So how can I change these words? Have you not read Isa. 53 and Heb 4:15 clear states HE was without sin.  Adam was created perfect and he then was without sin. But he disobeyed with Ms. Adam and the man became sinful. Our blood is contaminated, YAHSHUA had to become flesh like the first two Adam's and HIS BLOOD had to be pure without sin. HE did not have contaminated blood, both Mary and Joseph did. Now you show anywhere in the Bible where HIS BLOOD contain sin. You can't because you stated it but you did not provide an Scripture.

I did not need to compare Psalm 40:6 to Hebrew 10:5 and I gave you the reason why I knew you was going to choose it. So I will make even more clear Paul was talking about YAHSHUA  being THE SACRIFICE that David quoted. He quoted David showing that he was correct and the Paul let it be known that YAHSHUA'S BODY was prepared. What is there to compare, David first spoke and Paul confirm it!

Joseph was told take Mary to be his wife  then there was a colon. You do know what happen when a colon is used it used to introduce. What was introduce? For THAT was conceived in her is of THE HOLY SPIRIT. This verse did not say it was conceived by her but "in" her. This is plan simple English Grammar. In her womb THAT was conceived is of or from THE HOLY SPIRIT. No that's simple. I will say it again Mary could not conceived a child alone, an egg and a sperm is how ALL human beings are conceived! The Bible says so and it was NOT AN IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. THE BODY was already prepared and like the Bible said in her and not by her!

Shalom my brother and blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

On 9/6/2018 at 7:15 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Luke 2:21 "And when eight days had passed, before His circumcision, His name was then called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb."

Please forgive, I meant conceived by Mary! Forgot to say Mary, my mistake!

Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

On 9/9/2018 at 8:46 AM, stinsonmarri said:

Trevor kindly I do not interpreter the Bible. "but A BODY hast THOU prepared ME. "

I am really confused as to how you read this because you seem to be saying that Jesus was not literally the son of Mary his mother. Are you saying that God the Father prepared a body and then implanted this body in the womb of Mary? For my part I believe that God the Father is the father of Jesus and that this was achieved by the power of the Holy Spirit, and Mary is his mother.

On 9/9/2018 at 8:46 AM, stinsonmarri said:

Have you not read Isa. 53 and Heb 4:15 clear states HE was without sin.  Adam was created perfect and he then was without sin. But he disobeyed with Ms. Adam and the man became sinful. Our blood is contaminated, YAHSHUA had to become flesh like the first two Adam's and HIS BLOOD had to be pure without sin. HE did not have contaminated blood, both Mary and Joseph did. Now you show anywhere in the Bible where HIS BLOOD contain sin.

Yes, Jesus never sinned. Where we differ here is that I do not believe that Jesus had different blood to us. Blood is not the source of sin, neither do I believe that our blood is contaminated with sin, except that sin does have some effect upon our body, and thus we may reveal some weaknesses and sickness, even at birth. But if a sample of our blood is compared with the blood of Jesus, then it would be the same and hypothetically either could have been used in blood transfusions and the patient would be no better or worse off with either sample.

On 9/9/2018 at 8:46 AM, stinsonmarri said:

I did not need to compare Psalm 40:6 to Hebrew 10:5 and I gave you the reason why I knew you was going to choose it.

The language of Psalm 40 is alluding to the practice of piercing the ear of a Hebrew bondservant.

On 9/9/2018 at 8:46 AM, stinsonmarri said:

For THAT was conceived in her is of THE HOLY SPIRIT. This verse did not say it was conceived by her but "in" her. This is plan simple English Grammar. In her womb THAT was conceived is of or from THE HOLY SPIRIT. No that's simple.

Again, I do not understand what you are saying. Mary was Jesus’ mother, and therefore it was her egg that was used. Conception occurred when the Holy Spirit power came upon the egg of Mary.

Kind regards Trevor

[8thdaypriest]

If Mary was NOT Jesus actual physical mother,  then Jesus was NOT "the Son of Man".   That would mean He was ONLY the "Son of God".   Jesus frequently referred to Himself as "the Son of Man".   

This is why I believe that a NEW BEING was brought into existence, when the Christ was conceived in the womb of Mary.   He would forever be "the Son of Man".  He would never loose His humanity.   

[stinsonmarri]

5 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I am really confused as to how you read this because you seem to be saying that Jesus was not literally the son of Mary his mother. Are you saying that God the Father prepared a body and then implanted this body in the womb of Mary? For my part I believe that God the Father is the father of Jesus and that this was achieved by the power of the Holy Spirit, and Mary is his mother.

54 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

If Mary was NOT Jesus actual physical mother,  then Jesus was NOT "the Son of Man".   That would mean He was ONLY the "Son of God".   Jesus frequently referred to Himself as "the Son of Man".   

This is why I believe that a NEW BEING was brought into existence, when the Christ was conceived in the womb of Mary.   He would forever be "the Son of Man".  He would never loose His humanity. 

 

Trevor and Rachel: The Bible does not lie; you two want to say something that it does not state at all. Having you heard of a surrogate mother that has an implantation in her uterus a fertilized egg. By law even today she is still recognize as the mother. John 19:27  I do no need to go into more details. Adam did not have neither a mother nor a father, he was created. It seems that THE CREATORS have to do things our ways and not HIS WAY to suit us! Sin is in the blood, Mary was still born in sin, and she was not made perfect. Mary has sinful blood and again that is why Immaculate Conception is a lie.

The Immaculate Conception is the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that God acted upon Mary in the first moment of her conception keeping her "immaculate." Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia

So the Immaculate Conception is the belief that Mary was protected from original sin, that Mary did not have a sin nature and was, in fact, sinless. Here is proof that Mary was not without sin"

Eccl 7:20; Rom 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5

Rachel, Nebuchadnezzar said that YAHSHUA was THE SON of man in Daniel. HE was through Mary but as the Bible state and not me: "but A BODY hast THOU prepared ME. " I clearly understand the English language and take a stand on what it said. No disrespect to either of you.

YAHSHUA'S BLOOD had to be without sin and HIS BODY also had to be perfect like Adam. Why would HE be call THE SECOND ADAM or THE SON of man and THE SON of ELOHIM if HE did not fit all of these known TITLES. Mary came from Adam and YAHSHUA was place in her womb which make the two above TITLES correct and THE FATHER SAID; This is MY BELOVED SON! I rest my case! Now keep in mind, you have a right to choose how you believe!

Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri,

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The Bible does not lie; you two want to say something that it does not state at all. Having you heard of a surrogate mother that has an implantation in her uterus a fertilized egg.

I find no Biblical evidence to indicate that Mary was a surrogate. Jesus in the womb is not what we normally would call a body, but a developing foetus, and we never call an egg a body.

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

YAHSHUA'S BLOOD had to be without sin and HIS BODY also had to be perfect like Adam. Why would HE be call THE SECOND ADAM or THE SON of man and THE SON of ELOHIM if HE did not fit all of these known TITLES. Mary came from Adam and YAHSHUA was place in her womb which make the two above TITLES correct and THE FATHER SAID; This is MY BELOVED SON! I rest my case! Now keep in mind, you have a right to choose how you believe!

Luke 1:30-35 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

This clearly teaches that Jesus is a descendant of David through Mary his mother, and that God the Father is the father through the power of the Holy Spirit. Blood does not convey sin. Sin is transgression of the Law and Jesus did not sin. He came in human nature to overcome sin in all its manifestations and consequences. He crucified the flesh with its affections and lusts. Jesus is also the seed or direct descendant of Abraham Genesis 13:14-15 and Eve Genesis 3:15.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

5 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I find no Biblical evidence to indicate that Mary was a surrogate. Jesus in the womb is not what we normally would call a body, but a developing foetus, and we never call an egg a body.

Luke 1:30-35 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

This clearly teaches that Jesus is a descendant of David through Mary his mother, and that God the Father is the father through the power of the Holy Spirit. Blood does not convey sin. Sin is transgression of the Law and Jesus did not sin. He came in human nature to overcome sin in all its manifestations and consequences. He crucified the flesh with its affections and lusts. Jesus is also the seed or direct descendant of Abraham Genesis 13:14-15 and Eve Genesis 3:15.

If you mean fetus, then it is already a baby. The Bible never said a fetus, neither have I because I take the Bible as it says. Matter of fact Judah second oldest son was kill because a baby would have been produce and he stop the act and spew his sperm on the ground and YAHWEH slew him! Gen 38:8-10

Listen Trevor even the Scriptures you gave me when I made a mistake with conceived, is clear.

“for that which is conceived 'in her'          'is of' THE HOLY SPIRIT.”

I never said anything about an egg being a body. What I have said very clearly that YAHSHUA was prepared by THE FATHER and place in her by THE HOLY SPIRIT!!! Isa 55:8, 9 says very clearly what we think and neither our ways are like THE ALMIGHTY ONES! Rom 1:21-23 says how man try to make YAHWEH to be like us and THEY ARE NOT! YAHSHUA became what HE first created a perfect human being without sin. The Bible said that THE FATHER prepare HIS BODY and HE  did not make a fetus when Adam or his wife were created. HE took from Adam's rib and made a woman. I do not question THE ALMIGHTY ONES. I believe what THEY SAY and understand! 

I agree that Mary gave birth to YAHSHUA and I gave you a Scripture that HE recognize her as HIS earthly mother. However, have you read Luke 2:49, 50, when Mary confronted HIM and you know what HE SAID. However, HIS parent's did not understand what HE meant. We do today because we have the whole picture. I also agree with HIM coming under David through both Joseph and Mary. I know by the Bible how that came about! I believe in all of the Scriptures, not just some! However, you cannot find in the Scripture that YAHSHUA had the nature of sinful man. HE did have the nature of Adam before he sin, not after he sin and that why HE IS THE SECOND ADAM. The proof is you can be tempted and not sin because you have a choice. Adam made a choice to sin, he was not force to sin. We now have the power to choose not to sin with THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT. We can be perfect like YAHSHUA and HIS FATHER in Heaven IS PERFECT! Mat 5:48; 19:21; Luke 1:3; 6:40;  John 17:23 I believe and that's where I take a stand. You have to make your own choice.

Blessing and Shalom to you!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

What I have said very clearly that YAHSHUA was prepared by THE FATHER and place in her by THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

I appreciate your comments. I cannot accept your suggestions as I believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus and God the Father is the father of Jesus by means of the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice because he never sinned and his miraculous conception and birth is a significant factor in this, but this did not wipe out his inheritance of fallen human nature with its lusts through Mary. These lusts needed to be overcome and the temptation in the wilderness is an example. Also as death was the punishment for sin, then God's righteousness and God's love for His Son, necessitated that God would raise Jesus from the dead and establish a new basis, forgiveness of sins for those who believed in Jesus and become united with him in his death and resurrection through faith and baptism.

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

12 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

I appreciate your comments. I cannot accept your suggestions as I believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus and God the Father is the father of Jesus by means of the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice because he never sinned and his miraculous conception and birth is a significant factor in this, but this did not wipe out his inheritance of fallen human nature with its lusts through Mary. These lusts needed to be overcome and the temptation in the wilderness is an example. Also as death was the punishment for sin, then God's righteousness and God's love for His Son, necessitated that God would raise Jesus from the dead and establish a new basis, forgiveness of sins for those who believed in Jesus and become united with him in his death and resurrection through faith and baptism.

Kind regards Trevor

The only problem as I have stated you have no Scriptures to prove anything that you have said. I have provided to you in detail what the Bible said, which is very clear and understandable.

1. The Bible said A BODY was prepare,

2. The Bible said that Adam and his wife did not come from a fetus, they were created and they were perfect,

3. The Bible said YAHSHUA became THE SECOND ADAM. What did Adam and his wife have that no other person have? They were made perfect and that's why HE had to be perfect.

4. The Bible never said that YAHSHUA took on sinless man's nature, you have not provided a Scripture. The Bible said HE became THE SECOND ADAM and the first Adam had the nature of ELOHIYM  because he was made in THE LIKENESS of ELOHIYM. The lightness means nature/character. YAHSHUA was also ELOHE and the Bible said EMMANUEL is with us. That means HIS CHARACTER/LIKENESS is identical to the first Adam.

5. The Bible said there was no guile found in HIM!

6. The Bible said HE was sinless,

7. The Bible said the shedding of HIS BLOOD CLEANSE us, it can't be with sin which means HE was born without sin and Mary conceive with in her womb YAHSHUA of/from THE HOLY SPIRIT.

I again provide Scriptures for everything I presented you have not! HE had no inheritance of sinful man nature and you have no Scripture to back this up!

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I noticed in Gen 15:1 that God said the following: "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward."

What was this reward that Abraham was promised? We do know that God promised to be his "Shield" is that what God was promising for Abrahams reward?

The children of Israel never receive the land of promise due to their disobedience. Gen 15:18-21; Deut 1:7, 8; 28:15-68; Josh 9:24 Judges 1:27-35; 2:1-3 They was suppose to have from the Red Sea to the river Euphrates and up to Lebanon and all the cost of the Mediterranean Sea. They never did and the land became Palestine-which mean the land of the Philistine. These too were Ham's children some remain in Canaan the rest migrated to Crete. They were the Minoans who left when the greatest earthquake hit the Mediterranean Sea. They were known as the People of the sea.

And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim. Gen 10:13, 14 

 

The Philistines we encounter in the books of Judges and 1 and 2 Samuel (11th century BC) are well known to us. Not only do we have detailed information about them in the Bible, but we have evidence from extra-Biblical sources as well. Pharaoh Rameses III recorded that the Philistines were one tribe of a coalition of “Sea Peoples” who swept across Anatolia (modern Turkey) and down the Mediterranean coast intent on taking up residence in Egypt. In his eighth year (ca. 1177 BC), Rameses III turned them back at the border and the various tribes of the Sea Peoples were forced to settle elsewhere. The Philistines ended up in one of the choicest areas of Palestine, the southwest coastal region. Archaeologists have been able to track their presence there because of their distinctively Aegean material culture, especially their pottery (Wood 1991). According to the Bible, the Philistines originated in “Caphtor” (Jer 47:4; Am 9:7), identified as the island of Crete (Hess 1992).

The significance of the Phaistos Disk for our purposes is that it connects the Philistines with the island of Crete and places them there at a period far earlier than the 12th century BC. One of characters on the disk, in fact, the one that occurs most frequently, is a warrior with a feathered headdress. It is very similar to the depiction of the later Philistines in reliefs on the walls of Rameses III’s mortuary temple in Medinet Habu, Egypt (T. Dothan 1982: 22; T. and M. Dothan 1992: 35–36). This is not an isolated find, as identical signs, including frontal views of the feathered warrior, have been found inscribed on an axe found in a cave in Crete (Robinson 2002: 306–307).

Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again The Wanderer,

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I noticed in Gen 15:1 that God said the following: "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward."

What was this reward that Abraham was promised? We do know that God promised to be his "Shield" is that what God was promising for Abrahams reward?

I suggest that these are two parts of the one subject. The means whereby Abraham would receive the inheritance would be by trust in God. Even after God’s statement in Genesis 15:1 Abraham enquires about his seed, as he did not have any children. Thus Abraham still held onto the promise of the land and he recognised that this involved his seed, Christ, who would also inherit the land. The aspect of Abraham putting his trust in God is immediately outworked when God reveals that his ultimate descendants would be as numerous as the stars. Abraham believed in Yahweh, and Yahweh accounted his faith as righteousness. He was thus forgiven his sins, and if he died at that time he would be resurrected at the return of Jesus to inherit the land. The Bible teaching of the Kingdom of God is resurrection and inheriting the land, not heaven going of an immortal soul at death, or the SDA version heaven going during the 1000 years.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri,

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The only problem as I have stated you have no Scriptures to prove anything that you have said. I have provided to you in detail what the Bible said, which is very clear and understandable.

No, you have given your specialised interpretation of Scripture, imposing your ideas upon any Scripture that you have quoted.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

1. The Bible said A BODY was prepare,

There is nothing in this Scripture to suggest that God prepared a fertilised egg either inside or outside the womb of Mary and implanted this in her womb to grow. The Scriptures clearly teach that God the Father was the father of Jesus and Mary was his mother. The preparation of the body of Jesus was so that he would be God’s servant / son to do God’s will and become obedient and the perfect sacrifice, including all the offerings depicted in the Law, the trespass, sin, burnt and peace offerings.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

2. The Bible said that Adam and his wife did not come from a fetus, they were created and they were perfect,

They were not perfect as they had yet to be tried. Jesus was made perfect through his trials and sufferings.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

3. The Bible said YAHSHUA became THE SECOND ADAM. What did Adam and his wife have that no other person have? They were made perfect and that's why HE had to be perfect.

He was sinless, but he shared our flesh, our human nature Hebrews 2:14.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

4. The Bible never said that YAHSHUA took on sinless man's nature, you have not provided a Scripture. The Bible said HE became THE SECOND ADAM and the first Adam had the nature of ELOHIYM  because he was made in THE LIKENESS of ELOHIYM. The lightness means nature/character. YAHSHUA was also ELOHE and the Bible said EMMANUEL is with us. That means HIS CHARACTER/LIKENESS is identical to the first Adam.

He was made a little lower than the angels, but he was subject to death as he was a descendant of Adam Romans 5:12. He suffered death so that God would need to raise him from the dead.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

5. The Bible said there was no guile found in HIM!

Yes, you are correct, he had no guile or deceit. He is the way, the TRUTH and the life.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

6. The Bible said HE was sinless,

Yes, you are correct, he never sinned.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

7. The Bible said the shedding of HIS BLOOD CLEANSE us, it can't be with sin which means HE was born without sin and Mary conceive with in her womb YAHSHUA of/from THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Sin is not transmitted by blood. Sin is the transgression of the Law. Jesus had the impulses of sin, but he overcame them and never sinned. You are mixing figurative language with literal language and arriving at a wrong conclusion.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I again provide Scriptures for everything I presented you have not! HE had no inheritance of sinful man nature and you have no Scripture to back this up!

He came in the likeness of sin’s flesh and overcame sin in the very flesh that with all others has sinned Romans 8:3.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Blessings!

Shalom. Have a pleasant day.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

On 9/13/2018 at 10:01 PM, TrevorL said:

There is nothing in this Scripture to suggest that God prepared a fertilised egg either inside or outside the womb of Mary and implanted this in her womb to grow. The Scriptures clearly teach that God the Father was the father of Jesus and Mary was his mother. The preparation of the body of Jesus was so that he would be God’s servant / son to do God’s will and become obedient and the perfect sacrifice, including all the offerings depicted in the Law, the trespass, sin, burnt and peace offerings.

Trevor I never said that YAHWEH prepare an egg at all. The Bible said A BODY was prepared, I am not the Bible. The Bible never said anything about Mary having an egg or a fetus. The Bible teaches that both Mary and Joseph was HIS earthly parents.

And when YAHSHUA HIMSELF began, HE was about thirty years of age, being, as reckoned by law, son of Yosěph, of Ěli, Luke 3:23 TS2009

And all bare HIM witness, and wondered at the GRACIOUS WORDS which proceeded out of HIS MOUTH. And they said, Is not this Joseph's SON? Luke 4:22   

And they said, Is not this YAHSHUA, THE SON of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that HE SAITH, I came down from Heaven? John 6:42  HRB

Now the Bible explains very explicitly to Mary what was going to take place in her womb. The reason was confusing even to her because she had not being with a man, which is how a child is produce. So Trevor please read this so you will know I do not add or subtract from what the Bible says. It is very clear!

And the cherub said to her, Do not fear, Mariam, for you have found grace from YAHWEH. For behold you will receive conception and bear A SON and you will call HIS NAME YAHSHUA. THIS ONE will BE GREAT and will be called SON of THE MOST HIGH. And YAHWEH ELOHIYM will give HIM the throne of HIS father David. And HE will REIGN over the house of Jacob to the ages, and of HIS Kingdom there will be no end. But Mariam said to the cherub, How will this be since I do not know a man? And the cherub answered and said to her, THE HOLY SPIRIT will come and THE POWER of THE HIGHEST WILL REST upon you. Because of this, HE who is to be born of you is HOLY and will be called THE SON of YAHWEH. Luke 1:30-35 HRB

Mary actually Mariam knew she could not produce a child without knowing a man. It is very clear that THE HOLY SPIRIT came with what THE FATHER gave HIM which was POWER and it REST upon Mary. THE HOLY SPIRIT place it in Mary's womb and that's it. I am not going to speculate but take what the Bible said. THE CREATIVE POWER of THE HIGHEST which is what THE FATHER gave to THE HOLY SPIRIT who place THE POWER in Mary's womb. It was not a fetus or an egg so I do not question YAHWEH nor HIS POWER! Sometime we need to leave things alone and accept what is given. Our thoughts and mind nor wisdom are not YAHWEH'S and we try to make something more then what it is. Trevor we cannot match THE POWER of YAHWEH; man thought they did when they start cloning and boy did they look stupid! Creation comes from above and it clearly seen that trees do not need a mate nor do flowers to produce. Frogs can change gender and angels have no gender, they are all manlike. I never read anywhere of one being a womanlike! How does a bee fly with his body or a humming bird. The creation of itself can never be question because the DNA is so genetically coded with billions of code that matches on its own. Explain all of this and yet you want to state how anyone question the miraculous birth of THE MESSIAH? You nor I have a clue but what is given, then we should leave it alone! HE came, HE died, HE rose, HE ascend up to Heaven, HE is our HIGH PRIEST that's what's is important and know if we obey HIS FATHER'S Commandments and HIS Testimony, HE will save us. Amen!

Happy Sabbath and be bless with much peace!

[stinsonmarri]

On 9/13/2018 at 10:01 PM, TrevorL said:

Sin is not transmitted by blood. Sin is the transgression of the Law. Jesus had the impulses of sin, but he overcame them and never sinned. You are mixing figurative language with literal language and arriving at a wrong conclusion.

Trevor I will let the Bible speak:

For this is MY BLOOD of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Mat 26:28 

HE came unto HIS own, and HIS own received HIM not. But as many as received HIM, to them gave HE POWER to become the sons of ELOHIYM, even to them that believe on HIS NAME:  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of ELOHIYM. John 1:11-13 HRB 

whom ELOHIYM set forth as an Atonement, through belief in HIS BLOOD, to demonstrate HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, because in HIS tolerance ELOHIYM had passed over the sins that had taken place before, Rom 3:25  HRB

And this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood is unable to inherit the reign of ELOHIYM, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.  1Co 15:50  TS2009

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Heb 9:22 

On 9/13/2018 at 10:01 PM, TrevorL said:

He came in the likeness of sin’s flesh and overcame sin in the very flesh that with all others has sinned Romans 8:3.

Trevor I will let other commentaries speak on this:

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh - Did that which the law could not do; i.e. purchased pardon for the sinner, and brought every believer into the favor of God. And this is effected by the incarnation of Christ: He, in whom dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily, took upon him the likeness of sinful flesh, that is, a human body like ours, but not sinful as ours; and for sin, και περι ἁμαρτιας, and as a Sacrifice for Sin, (this is the sense of the word in a multitude of places), condemned sin in the flesh - condemned that to death and destruction which had condemned us to both. Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

God, sending his own Son - That is, God did, or accomplished, that, by sending his Son, which the Law could not do. The word did, or accomplished, it is necessary to understand here, in order to complete the sense. In the likeness of sinful flesh - That is, he so far resembled sinful flesh that he partook of flesh, or the nature of man, but without any of its sinful propensities or desires. It was not human nature; not, as the Docetae taught, human nature in appearance only; but it was human nature Without any of its corruptions. Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible

It is so important to understand both Paleo Hebrew and Greek and they are easy to learn today. As I continue to tell you that is why YAHSHUA was THE SECOND ADAM. Adam nature or likeness when first created was sinless and so was YAHSHUA! The use of shedding lamb's blood was an example. The lamb had to be without spot of blemish, it was separated from the flock on the 10th day and on the 14th day at evening which is the 15th day the beginning of the Holy Convocation of Unleavened Bread it became the passover supper. Luke 22:1  The lamb's blood was sprinkle on the doorpost all of this symbolic service represented YAHSHUA as our PASSOVER LAMB. When we take the wine is today is symbolic of HIS BLOOD!

Happy Sabbath and be Bless!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

13 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Trevor I never said that YAHWEH prepare an egg at all. The Bible said A BODY was prepared, I am not the Bible. The Bible never said anything about Mary having an egg or a fetus. The Bible teaches that both Mary and Joseph was HIS earthly parents.

I appreciate your comments. I cannot accept your suggestions as I believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus and God the Father is the father of Jesus. The Bible does not teach that Jesus would be a different creation, a complete new start. The promise to Eve speaks of the seed of the woman, and this is the first indication of the virgin birth, but it also teaches that the child would be a descendant of Eve. The promises to Abraham also were centred in Abraham’s seed, again specifically Jesus, and again a physical descendant. The promise to David also speaks of David’s descendant, but also God was to be his father:

2 Samuel 7:12–16 (KJV): 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Not only does this promise teach that Jesus would be a direct descendant of David, but there are a number of references to Jesus being of the flesh of David, that is his direct descendant.

Luke 1:31–35 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Acts 2:29–32 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Romans 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

The Bible is teaching that both Abraham and David are forerunners of Jesus who would be faithful and whose heart would be like God's heart. There would not be a need for a replacement creation as you indicate. There would be a need for Divine intervention, and this was accomplished by God the Father being the father of Jesus and nurturing His Son up until and throughout his ministry. Jesus is the one who fulfils Psalm 1 completely, but these words also are substantially fulfilled in David, a man after God's own heart. Abraham and David and the faithful of Romans 8:2 speak of the overcoming of the flesh and living by the power revealed in Jesus. See also Galatians 2:20.

12 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

For this is MY BLOOD of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Mat 26:28 

This is figurative language. Elsewhere it speaks of his body given and also he gave his life. His literal blood was poured out when he died.

12 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

He, in whom dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily, took upon him the likeness of sinful flesh, that is, a human body like ours, but not sinful as ours;

 

12 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

In the likeness of sinful flesh - That is, he so far resembled sinful flesh that he partook of flesh, or the nature of man, but without any of its sinful propensities or desires. It was not human nature

I believe that he had our nature, our sinful propensities, but he always overcame the flesh by the word of God. He condemned the sinful propensities in his own flesh, “condemned sin in the flesh” Romans 8:3.

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

On 9/16/2018 at 2:40 AM, TrevorL said:

I appreciate your comments. I cannot accept your suggestions as I believe that Mary is the mother of Jesus and God the Father is the father of Jesus. The Bible does not teach that Jesus would be a different creation, a complete new start. The promise to Eve speaks of the seed of the woman, and this is the first indication of the virgin birth, but it also teaches that the child would be a descendant of Eve. The promises to Abraham also were centred in Abraham’s seed, again specifically Jesus, and again a physical descendant. The promise to David also speaks of David’s descendant, but also God was to be his father:

2 Samuel 7:12–16 (KJV): 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Not only does this promise teach that Jesus would be a direct descendant of David, but there are a number of references to Jesus being of the flesh of David, that is his direct descendant.

Luke 1:31–35 (KJV): 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Acts 2:29–32 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Romans 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

The Bible is teaching that both Abraham and David are forerunners of Jesus who would be faithful and whose heart would be like God's heart. There would not be a need for a replacement creation as you indicate. There would be a need for Divine intervention, and this was accomplished by God the Father being the father of Jesus and nurturing His Son up until and throughout his ministry. Jesus is the one who fulfils Psalm 1 completely, but these words also are substantially fulfilled in David, a man after God's own heart. Abraham and David and the faithful of Romans 8:2 speak of the overcoming of the flesh and living by the power revealed in Jesus. See also Galatians 2:20.

Greeting Trevor: The Bible does teach that YAHSHUA was a NEW CREATION because HE became THE SECOND ADAM. That my friend is what the Bible teaches. If you read your Bible Eve was not given her name until Gen 4:1, never in the Garden.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3:15 

The word "seed," means: that which may be sown; an individual grain of seed; offspring, posterity.

It does not mean fetus, because a tree has seeds also flowers etc. Offspring I accept because THE FATHER PREPARE HIM like HE  prepare Adam. Both Adam's was created without sin but YAHSHUA took on all our sins so we can be heal from sin. That was the promise in the Garden.

Both Joseph and Mary came from Abraham, but I go a news flash, they also came through the Canaanite or Ham seed as well. Rahab and Ruth! I guess you haven't truly understood the custom of the ancient people. Going back to Judah oldest son, who so wicked YAHWEH slew him. His brother took his wife and the first child that would have been born would be call the seed of the oldest brother. The Bible told what happen and Judah thinking he was having sex with a Canaanite whore, it was his older son's wife. She too was a Canaanite, however Judah did not follow the tradition for his youngest son to marry her, so she trick him and he himself realize that she did what was right! Read Gen Chapter 38 My point this tradition was done all the time and Joseph was where the offspring should have come from. All the Scriptures you provided, have you really read them? They prove the truth that YAHSHUA became THE SECOND ADAM, so they say Amen to what I stated about the truth of the Bible.

On 9/16/2018 at 2:40 AM, TrevorL said:

I believe that he had our nature, our sinful propensities, but he always overcame the flesh by the word of God. He condemned the sinful propensities in his own flesh, “condemned sin in the flesh” Romans 8:3.

We have been through this and I stand with the Bible and that HIS NATURE like Adam and his wife was perfect when they first was created, the same with YAHSHUA that is why HE IS THE SECOND ADAM and HIS NATURE was like the first without sin.

On 9/16/2018 at 2:40 AM, TrevorL said:

I believe that he had our nature, our sinful propensities, but he always overcame the flesh by the word of God. He condemned the sinful propensities in his own flesh, “condemned sin in the flesh” Romans 8:3.

Here we agree on the flesh but THE FATHER PREPARE HIS FLESHLY BODY!

Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

12 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

We have been through this and I stand with the Bible and that HIS NATURE like Adam and his wife was perfect when they first was created, the same with YAHSHUA that is why HE IS THE SECOND ADAM and HIS NATURE was like the first without sin.

I appreciate your latest response. I agree that we have exhausted our discussion and differences on this aspect.

Kind regards Trevor