When Was Jesus Crucified?

[JoeMo]

While leading worship the Sabbath before Easter,  I made the comment that Passover in 2019 occurred just like it did when Jesus was crucified - Jesus died on Friday; that evening was the traditional Passover and beginning of Sabbath, and Jesus rose on Sunday.  After the service I was chastised by one of the saints for spreading a lie.  According to this person, the Bible proves that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday; or else He could not spend 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb.

I looked up the day of Passover in 30 AD and 33 AD - the most acceptable dates of Jesus' crucifixion.  Passover in 30 AD was a Wednesday allowing for Jesus to spend a literal 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb.  Passover was on a Friday in 33 AD, allowing for the traditional position that Jesus died on Friday, rested in the tomb on Sabbath, and rose on Sunday.

I don't think this is salvational.  What is salvational is that Jesus was crucified for our sins, died, and rose again proving who He was and that He was victorious in His mission.  Nonetheless, I found the discussion interesting (although we agreed to disagree).  I would appreciate others' opinion on this - just for the sake of discussion.

[phkrause]

I agree that Jesus was crucified on friday, rested on Shabbat and rose on the first day of the week!! If I'm not mistaken I believe the book of Luke confirms this better than the other gospel books?? Also there is a sermon, lecture, video of a minister, theologian that speaks to the three days three nights issue! These are not 24 hour periods as we in the west see 3 days 3 nights!! Anyway if I can find the video I will post!!

[Gregory Matthews]

Without getting into a discussion of the actual year that Christ died, there are two issues:

1)  In the time of Christ, the Passover was celebrated on a couple of different dates by the different Jewish sects.  I think.  I should probably look more into this.

2)  Hebrew culture in that time considered the phrase "three days and three nights" to fit the Friday to Sunday schedule.

It is the same type of thing as if I were to say:  It has been raining cats and dogs.  Few would misunderstand me.

 

 

[JoeMo]

On 6/1/2019 at 5:05 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

Hebrew culture in that time considered the phrase "three days and thee nights" to fit the Friday to Sunday schedule.

I guess the question arises from what Jesus said in Matt. 12:40:

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

How does a late Friday afternoon burial and an early Sunday resurrection adds up to portions of three days and three nights?  It's the three nights that seems to be a hurdle - Friday night and Saturday night ... where's the portion of the third night?  Not a challenge; I want to give this person a legitimate answer.

[Gregory Matthews]

It does not add up as we understand it.

I can refer you to 5SDABC, 1980 edition, pages 248 through 251, which provides an extensive discussion of this issue.  I Do not think that I     could give a good summation of    what it says there in a post here.

[JoeMo]

I read the stuff you sent me; and it was very helpful.  I will pass it on to the person who confronted me with this.  I personally now have no doubt that Jesus was crucified on a Friday and rose on Sunday.

[Gustave]

April 3, 33 A.D.

John 2, 13

John 6, 4

&

John 11,55

Excludes 30 AD as being a contender for the year.

[Gregory Matthews]

Seventh-day Adventist  scholars have generally believed that the exact date for the crucifixion of Christ can  not be absolutely determined.

*  They have ruled out a date founded in ancient tradition of 29 CE  (AD)

*  They have generally held that the crucifixion probably occurred during either 30 CE, or 31 CE or 33 CE.

*  As early as the 13th century, the crucifixion was thought to have occurred in 33 CE.  Today, this is a minority view.  The evidence is considered strong for a rejection of this view.  Part of the reason for the rejection of this is that it was based upon what we now believe to be a faulty understanding of the Jewish calendar.  There are also other reasons for rejecting t his date.

*  CE 30 has probably been the most common current belief as to the crucifixion.  But, this date is based upon some assumptions that are rejected by some scholars.

*  CE 31 has more generally been accepted as the date for the crucifixion by SDA scholars.  

*  However, the data is not  conclusive.  The actual date  can not be established from what we know about the lunar-calendar system of the Jews.    

 

My personal position is:  1)  We do not conclusively know.  2)  I am comfortable with and date in the 30 - 33 range.  3)  This is not an important issue that matters.  4)  In my personal ministry I lean toward the 31 date.

 

 

 

 

 

[APL]

Quote: In the spring of A. D. 31, Christ the true sacrifice was offered on Calvary. {DA 233.2}

Quote: “And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” In A. D. 31, three and a half years after his baptism, our Lord was crucified. With the great sacrifice offered upon Calvary, ended that system of offerings which for four thousand years had pointed forward to the Lamb of God. Type had met antitype, and all the sacrifices and oblations of the ceremonial system were there to cease.  {GC88 327.3}

And this would have been the year based on the 2300 day and 70 week prophesy. 

As to the reckoning of time, Christ was taken into captivity on what we call Thursday evening, and raised from the dead Sunday,  6th day evening and morning, 7th day evening and morning, 1st day evening, raised early morning, 3 days and 3 nights. 

[Gustave]

6 hours ago, APL said:

Quote: In the spring of A. D. 31, Christ the true sacrifice was offered on Calvary. {DA 233.2}

Quote: “And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” In A. D. 31, three and a half years after his baptism, our Lord was crucified. With the great sacrifice offered upon Calvary, ended that system of offerings which for four thousand years had pointed forward to the Lamb of God. Type had met antitype, and all the sacrifices and oblations of the ceremonial system were there to cease.  {GC88 327.3}

And this would have been the year based on the 2300 day and 70 week prophesy. 

 

John 2, 11: This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him. After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days. And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6,2: And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased. And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples. And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.

John 11, 53: Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples. And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.

That's three Passovers St. John counts which coincides with Jesus' 3+ year public Ministry (it's actually closer to 3.5 years) and the only years between A.D. 29 and AD 34 that included a 6th day preparation day was April 7 in 30 A.D. & April 3, 33 A.D.

In 31 A.D. the Passover would have been what today is called Tuesday, March 27. The early Adventists KNEW THIS and were required to appeal to a different calendar.  

That comes from the 7th Month June 1883 Seventh Day Adventist Yearbook. It says: 

"Those who disbelieve in the seventh-day Sabbath bring against it numerous objections, all of which are readily answered with the exception of ONE, - THE CROSS. This is the great, the unanswerable objection to the Bible Sabbath".

What they appear to be saying here is that they believe that they have an answer for every argument / objection against the Sabbath EXCEPT FOR ONE - specifically that they adopted a successive weekly sabbath that contradicts the form of Sabbath that was used to establish or justify their prophetic origin in that for 1844 to be correct Christ had to die in A.D. 31 on the preparation day (Friday) AND that it was also the Jewish Passover. 

. 

 

 

 

 

[Kevin H]

The Wednesday Crucifixion is very popular among those who want to find the bazaar and show that others are wrong, they also tend to be anti education. Herbert W. Armstrong was one of the major pushers of this view. A lot of this (as well as views of perfection that plague our church) is reading the words of the Bible but through speculation instead of education, and being westerners we tend to filter our speculations through Greek thinking as opposed to Eastern/Hebrew thinking. 

 

[Gustave]

This Evangelical guy spent quite a bit of time studying the Star of Bethlehem and made a movie out of it. He claims Scripture and science affirm it was April 3, 33 A.D.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

There is a problem with the post above that APL made a few posts back:  Many SDAs,  who present that argument in doing so engage in circular reasoning.

 

[Aliensanctuary]

Most people see the star of Bethlehem as a real star, capable of changing direction and hovering over a Temple and a nondescript little house.

Much more likely is that the "star" is a UFO, sent to guide the Magi to their destination in order for them to finance Joseph and Mary's journey to Egypt.

[Gregory Matthews]

 

[Gustave]

3 hours ago, Aliensanctuary said:

Most people see the star of Bethlehem as a real star, capable of changing direction and hovering over a Temple and a nondescript little house.

Much more likely is that the "star" is a UFO, sent to guide the Magi to their destination in order for them to finance Joseph and Mary's journey to Egypt.

LOL! Right, who doesn't like Ancient Aliens? 

[APL]

AD 31 and the Friday Crucifixion

[JoeMo]

7 hours ago, APL said:

AD 31 and the Friday Crucifixion

That article was very convoluted and proved nothing IMHO.  I'm in favor of the 30 AD or 33 AD year. Passover occurring on a Wednesday (as it did in 31 AD). doesn't fit the bill. 

Another thing - the article said "Though many Protestants and the Catholic Church believe that Christ was crucified on a Friday in AD 33, Seventh-day Adventists believe, and have always believed, it occurred in AD 31".  I've been an SDA for over 45 years; and I have never heard that before.

[pierrepaul]

Many SDAs I know feel "bound" by the 31 AD theory as this date is cited in Desire of Ages. The church has never articulated a coherent theory on the validity of specific historical data cited by Ellen White in her writing; the church likely cannot do so without upsetting large segments of the membership. Many members hold to a verbal-inspiration, inerrancy, infallibility view of her published writings. Their close cousins are the "if she's wrong about this trivial detail, nothing she wrote can be trusted" members who seek to disparage her entire ministry.

[Gustave]

11 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

Many SDAs I know feel "bound" by the 31 AD theory as this date is cited in Desire of Ages. The church has never articulated a coherent theory on the validity of specific historical data cited by Ellen White in her writing; the church likely cannot do so without upsetting large segments of the membership. Many members hold to a verbal-inspiration, inerrancy, infallibility view of her published writings. Their close cousins are the "if she's wrong about this trivial detail, nothing she wrote can be trusted" members who seek to disparage her entire ministry.

It's my understanding that 1844 required that Jesus be killed at the Jewish Passover in 31 A.D. AND that this coincided with Jesus being put on the cross on the preparation day (what we would call Friday). This paradox is what the SDA yearbook in 1883 states is an "unanswerable objection" because if Christ indeed died in 31 A.D. Saturday can't be the Sabbath. 

"Christ was crucified, in the Spring of 31 A.D." Ellen White GC page 410 of the 1911 edition

Nisan 14 (in 31 A.D.) was a Tuesday. 

But Ellen White maintained the day after Jesus was killed was the Jewish weekly sabbath. This requires that Passover in 31 A.D. be a Gregorian Wed YET understood by the Jews of Jesus day to be the weekly Sabbath. 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

*  Gustave has correctly cited EGW's statement.  She did believe that Christ was crucified in the Spring of 31 AD.

*  The 33 AD date that Gustave proposes has been a popular date that goes back to the 13th century and was proposed by Roger Bacon.  It is a date often found in the margins of the KJV Bibles.

*  This 33 AD date is based in part upon the assumption that the  Jewish calendar of the 1st century AD was exactly the same as the revised version that has come to us today.

*  As I understand it, this assumption has some conflicts with what we know about the a  needed coordination with a Babylonian cycle at that time and also with the Elephantine papyri.

*  An AD 30 date has been popular among  some Christians today.  However, this date would not have had a Friday Passover with a Nisan date in April.

*  Gustave   has some support for his proposed Nisan date in 31 AD.  But, it is not conclusive, in my opinion.

*  A major problem is that actually a date can not be conclusively established by either astronomical or calendrical data.   

*  One of the issues is that we can not be positive as to the exact boundaries of the lunar calendar system used by the 1st century Jews.

*  Some SDAs will consider their understanding of the prophecy of the 2300 days to be a factor to be considered in the date of the crucifixion.  This is circular reasoning.   Further, in my opinion, this view is based upon one understanding of the 2300 days when in actual fact that 2300 day prophecy may allow for some additional understandings.  IOW, I am not going to tie the "midst of the week" to a rigid, concrete specified number of days.  If I were to say that I will telephone you in the middle of next week, that might mean Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday.  It would not be limited to Wednesday.

*  The bottom line, in my opinion is:  The exact date for the crucifixion can not be determined with certainty.  All proposed dates are based upon some assumptions/conjectures.      This is not an issue of salvation.  No important Biblical doctrine is based upon a determination of the exact date for the crucifixion of Christ.

NOTE:  This is an exceedingly complex issue.  There is  much that can be said that I have not posted due to space limitations.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Kevin H]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

 

*  Some SDAs will consider their understanding of the prophecy of the 2300 days to be a factor to be considered in the date of the crucifixion.  This is circular reasoning.   Further, in my opinion, this view is based upon one understanding of the 2300 days when in actual fact that 2300 day prophecy may allow for some additional understandings.  IOW, I am not going to tie the "midst of the week" to a rigid, concrete specified number of days.  If I were to say that I will telephone you in the middle of next week, that might mean Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday.  It would not be limited to Wednesday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gregory's post has the important information. Where I quote him above is especially important for Adventists to understand.

An additional point, the Jews did not agree on when it would have been and celebrated Passover on different days of the same week. This explains how Matthew, Mark and Luke have the last supper be on Passover yet John has Jesus Crucifixion on Passover. It was based on two different ways the Jews had figured out when Passover was, with the last supper being the Essene Passover and the Crucifixion being on either the Temple or another Jewish sect Passover about  3 days later.  

[JoeMo]

Another question for me concerns the 2,300 "days".  Many translations call them 2,300 "evenings mornings".  In Hebrew, the word "day" is "yom".  In Daniel 8:24, the Hebrew word is "ereb boger" which literally means evening/morning".  It is the only time this term is used in scripture.  Could this possibly refer to the daily evening/morning sacrifices?  If so, 2,300 sacrifices would be equivalent to 1,150 days; which fits with the 1,260 days - just the opposite of the 1,260 days fitting into the 2,300 days.

[Gregory Matthews]

Kevin is absolutely correct when he essentially tells us that in the time of Christ, Passover was observed differently  according to the specific sect  to which one subscribed.

 

I may differ from my friend Gustave, as to which date I prefer.  I may think that my choice is a better one.  But, the bottom line is, as I understand it, none of the suggested dates can be determined to absolutely correct.  Just as I may suggest that Gustave is wrong, so also may he say the same for my preferred date.

 

[JoeMo]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The bottom line, in my opinion is:  The exact date for the crucifixion can not be determined with certainty.  All proposed dates are based upon some assumptions/conjectures.      This is not an issue of salvation.  No important Biblical doctrine is based upon a determination of the exact date for the crucifixion of Christ.

Great bottom line!  Thanks Gregory!