When Was Jesus Crucified?

[stinsonmarri]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:25 PM, Kevin H said:

Some Jewish sects had different times of reckoning for the feasts of the land. The Essenes tended to have Passover a few days before the official/Temple Passover.

The synoptic gospels have the last supper as Passover, while John has the crucifixion on Passover, and the feast at Simon's 6 days before Passover, and the last supper was 2 nights later. 

Ancient tradition had the last supper on Tuesday night, the feast tended to end well after midnight, then Jesus went to the garden for those horrible hours. He was arrested. Modern tradition, saying that the Passover was on Thursday night has a lot to happen in a short time; and refers to a Jewish law they said was broken in that the prisoner needed to be in prison until the next morning. The older traditions does not have this problem. There was the original hearing before the Sanhedrin quorum (23 Sadducee priests and Caliphas for 24 elders). Then Jesus would have been taken across Caliphas' court yard to the prison, in time to hear Peter's third denial. Spend the rest of Wednesday in the prison, taken out Thursday for more questioning by the Sadduceen court, then taken to Pilate, Herod and back to Pilate; 

Pilate hated the Jews but loved the gods. When he first came to Judea he put images all over. While at chariot races, a large number of Jews came and requested these images to be removed. Pilate said "No, and unless you leave the field I'll start the race and have them run all over you. '" The Jews said that if those were their options, then they chose death and laid down. Pilate then backed down, but hated the Jews ever since and would not pass up the chance to kill a Jew. 

As the 24 Sadducee Elders brought Jesus to Pilate, Pilate originally started out his routine way with a Jewish prisoner. I don't know if it was before or after sending Jesus to Herod that when again questioning Jesus, Pilate came to the horrible conclusion that his greatest love and greatest hate was standing before him. The "something out there" that he was trying to find through the pagan gods was indeed a true God. And this man standing before him was that God. But he was also a Jew. Pilate either had to give up his love for what was out there, or give up his pet sin of hating the Jews. 

Pilate tried to not make a decision and tried things to just let Jesus go, or told Caiaphas and the Sadducees to take care of it them selves. But the Sanhedrin was only allowed to stone people to death. They wanted Jesus hung on a tree since the popular misunderstanding of "Cursed is anyone who hangs on a tree" was that if someone was faithful to God they would not hang on a tree, and thus if someone does hang on a tree they must be God's enemy. The hanging on the tree would ruin the victim's reputation just as surely as if they were caught cheating on their wife or embezzling the church funds. (by the way, the money earned by the money changers went directly to Pilate as a bribe to keep the house of Annas in office). They saw this as a way of not only getting rid of the messenger but also the message.

As Pilate found it was not that easy to just let Jesus go, or just have the Sanhedrin take him and stone him, Pilate turned into a complete and total monster. Jesus is one of only two people who history records as being flogged then crucified. The name of Barnabas was similar to the name Jesus. Pilate knew which one he was going to release. (Oh, the word "Multitude" was a mysterious "misspelling" that they found in the gospels. The gospel writers kept using two different spellings that translators had assumed meant "multitude". But as it was discovered that Hebrew was not a dead language in Jesus' day but alive and well, translators would translate the gospels back not only in Aramaic, but also Hebrew. And what they thought was the misspelling of "multitude" turned out to be a correct spelling of a Hebrew word that meant "Those at hand" or "Those who happened to be there." As they checked this out with the gospels, they found that each of the "misspelled" of "multitude" the context fits a smaller number of those who were at hand, or those who happened to be there. Thus the "multitude" crying "Crucify him!" was probably only the 24 elders. 

Through out the rest of Thursday night Jesus would have been in the prison where Pilate was staying. The solders were treating Jesus horrible; they were probably using him in what they called the King's game, as the game was scratched in the floor by the prisoners. Then Friday morning Jesus was taken out and crucified on the Temple Passover (having already celebrated with his disciples on the Essene Passover). Rested Sabbath in the tomb, and at the feast of the first fruits, early Sunday Morning, he rose from the tomb. 

What amazes me about SDA we just don't follow the Bible. Instead, we base everything on the so call Jews. Let's get this straight there was no J in the time of YAHSHUA! Will please read for yourself that the J came during the Middle Ages. The information you are projecting are the Rabbinic Judaism. This is not the Assembly of YAHWEH called IsraEL, they rejected YAHSHUA or do you believe that or not? So my question to you Kevin why believe things that are a bunch of nonsense or Jewish conspiracy theory against the Truth. The Bible is suppose to be our creed of faith or is that just talk?

I will give you based on the Bible and EGW Desire of Ages, the facts:

 (The MESSIAH the LAMB according to Exodus Chapter 12)

1.   Friday before sunset the 9th: The MESSIAH arrives in Bethany at the house of Lazarus to rest for the Sabbath. Six days before the passover supper. John 12:1; DA p. 557, 558

2.  SABBATH evening 10th: Simon (healed of leprosy), invites the SAVIOR to dinner. Mary embalms HIM for HIS death. Judas angry for being rebuke by YAHSHUA leaves and seeks out the Pharisees. (See Ex. 12:3, the separation of the spotless lamb) John 11:1, 2; 12:2-7, 12-14; DA p. 558-564

3. Sunday 11th: (Palm Sunday): The MESSIAH arrives in Jerusalem on a colt, the people shouts "Hosanna" while laying palms before the SAVIOR and the colt. Matt 21: ; Mark 11:2-10; Luke 19:28-38; 19:45 John 12:12-19; DA p. 569-581, 621-626,

4. Monday 12th: YAHSHUA Curse the fig tree. The final cleansing of the Temple and healing of the sick. The men, women, and children shouting "Hosanna” to the SON of YAHWEH. Mark 11:12-19; John 2; DA p. 581, 590-600,

5. Tuesday 13th: Chief Priest and Scribes plots to kill the MESSIAH. Peter notice the cursed fig tree of the day before it had completely withered. The MESSIAH final confrontation with the Pharisees and Sadducees in the Temple. In the outer courts HE talks to the Greeks. The MESSIAH presents HIS death and HIS second coming to HIS disciple on Mount Olivet. HE also tells the disciples that after two days which  is the passover supper, that HE will betrayed Matt 21:12, 23; 22:25; 24:1;  Mark 11:18, 20, 21; 26:1; Luke 19:47, 20:1, 2, 19, 27; 22:1, 2; John 11: 55-57; 12:20; 13:1; DA p.  593, 621, 629-636,

6. Wednesday 14th: (The final day of the true Passover LAMB the MESSIAH before the lamb was taken to be roasted that evening which would start the 15th the beginning of Thursday evening, see Ex. 12:6; Num. 28:16) No account is mention,

7. Thursday evening the beginning of the 15th: Unleavened Bread begins; the last passover supper is taken always at night, the MESSIAH institutes the MESSIAH'S Supper to be taken on this night just before midnight. The SAVIOR'S last epitaph, HE becomes the "PASCHAL" LAMB in Gethsemane at midnight. During late night around 2 to 3:o'clock the pretrial of Ananias, and the first Sanhedrin trial (illegally done) under Caiphas the High Priest. Peter denial and Judas commits suicide. The second Sanhedrin trial Thursday morning after the sun comes up. The first encounter with Pilate is late in the afternoon, the MESSIAH is then sent to Herod late Friday night the beginning of the 16th. Matt 26:17-20, 36-42, 57, 77; Mark 14:17-18, 32, 36-40, 53, 72; Luke 22:7-14, 39, 40-45, 54, 61-66; Luke  23:1, 6-7  John 13:2; 14:31; 17; 18:1-3, 15, 19, 24, 27-28,  

 8. Friday 16th: THE  SAVIOR and mob returns to Pilate  judgment hall at midnight (Roman time now calls it Friday), Pilate had be awaken from his sleep. The priest and scribes refuse to come into the Judgment Hall  they had not eaten the passover supper, they busy try to killed YAHSHUA, that they did follow the Scriptures.They had not eaten the supper so they could not come into the Judgment Hall it was consider unclean, how foolish and full of sin. Pilates goes back and for talking to YAHSHUA and outside the hall to the priest and scribes.  Early morning Friday at the rising of the sun Pilate’s wife relates her dream to him that she had last night. Pilate now asked the people to choose between Barabbas and the MESSIAH. THE MESSIAH is killed on a tree at (12 O'clock Noon). He has become the burnt offering. The MESSIAH saves the thief on the tree. He dies and the Temple veil is ripped from top to bottom only a hands are seen. The evening lamb or burnt offering escapes all are able to see into the Most Holy Place. The MESSIAH dies and is buried before sunset. The women prepare spices to anoint HIM but the Sabbath has come, they wait until Sunday. Matt 27:1-2, 19, 35;  Mark 15:1, 27; Luke ; 23:13, 33;  John 18:33-40, 19,

9. SABBATH 17th: The MESSIAH rests quietly in the Tomb. Guards are outside guarding the tomb, along with Satan and some of his angels,

 10. Sunday 18th: While it is still dark, the MESSIAH rises from the Tomb! Sees Mary and tells her that HE must wave HIMSELF before HIS FATHER for acceptance of HIS Redemption Work!   Must be accepted to start Salvation Work in Heavenly Sanctuary!

 Conclusion

According to the Bible in Ex. 12:3-5, the unblemished lamb had to be taken from the original flock on the tenth day of the first month, and was place separate or alone by itself up until the fourteenth day of the month of Abib. The MESSIAH stopped HIS work exactly according to the Scriptures, showing that HE was truly the “LAMB OF YAHWEH ELOHIYM,” THE MESSIAH followed the Sacrificial System exactly and it was no longer needed. The Sacrificial System or Moses' book of law (which was "handwritten") was established to show how the MESSIAH would come and die, to redeem man and it showed that at HIS death only (the sacrifices and oblations: Dan 9:27) was taken out of the way and nailed to HIS tree. Colss. 2:14 The MESSIAH completed the assignment by waving HIMSELF before HIS FATHER which now pointed to the Salvation Plan to begin Lev. 23:10-12; John 20:13-17

Now I have said that the Desires of Ages that EGW wrote follow the Scriptures. You can see this for yourself all is there so you read it. Yes it's my belief according to the Scriptures. My faith is SDA not of a church but of the true assembly of YAHWEH! That's my choice, if I stand alone so be it. However, my Bible says this Gospel will be given to all the nations and people that's what I have given. Each individual must make their own choice!

Blessings!

[Kevin H]

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

What amazes me about SDA we just don't follow the Bible. Instead, we base everything on the so call Jews. Let's get this straight there was no J in the time of YAHSHUA! Will please read for yourself that the J came during the Middle Ages. The information you are projecting are the Rabbinic Judaism. This is not the Assembly of YAHWEH called IsraEL, they rejected YAHSHUA or do you believe that or not? So my question to you Kevin why believe things that are a bunch of nonsense or Jewish conspiracy theory against the Truth. The Bible is suppose to be our creed of faith or is that just talk?

I will give you based on the Bible and EGW Desire of Ages, the facts:

 (The MESSIAH the LAMB according to Exodus Chapter 12)

1.   Friday before sunset the 9th: The MESSIAH arrives in Bethany at the house of Lazarus to rest for the Sabbath. Six days before the passover supper. John 12:1; DA p. 557, 558

2.  SABBATH evening 10th: Simon (healed of leprosy), invites the SAVIOR to dinner. Mary embalms HIM for HIS death. Judas angry for being rebuke by YAHSHUA leaves and seeks out the Pharisees. (See Ex. 12:3, the separation of the spotless lamb) John 11:1, 2; 12:2-7, 12-14; DA p. 558-564

3. Sunday 11th: (Palm Sunday): The MESSIAH arrives in Jerusalem on a colt, the people shouts "Hosanna" while laying palms before the SAVIOR and the colt. Matt 21: ; Mark 11:2-10; Luke 19:28-38; 19:45 John 12:12-19; DA p. 569-581, 621-626,

4. Monday 12th: YAHSHUA Curse the fig tree. The final cleansing of the Temple and healing of the sick. The men, women, and children shouting "Hosanna” to the SON of YAHWEH. Mark 11:12-19; John 2; DA p. 581, 590-600,

5. Tuesday 13th: Chief Priest and Scribes plots to kill the MESSIAH. Peter notice the cursed fig tree of the day before it had completely withered. The MESSIAH final confrontation with the Pharisees and Sadducees in the Temple. In the outer courts HE talks to the Greeks. The MESSIAH presents HIS death and HIS second coming to HIS disciple on Mount Olivet. HE also tells the disciples that after two days which  is the passover supper, that HE will betrayed Matt 21:12, 23; 22:25; 24:1;  Mark 11:18, 20, 21; 26:1; Luke 19:47, 20:1, 2, 19, 27; 22:1, 2; John 11: 55-57; 12:20; 13:1; DA p.  593, 621, 629-636,

6. Wednesday 14th: (The final day of the true Passover LAMB the MESSIAH before the lamb was taken to be roasted that evening which would start the 15th the beginning of Thursday evening, see Ex. 12:6; Num. 28:16) No account is mention,

7. Thursday evening the beginning of the 15th: Unleavened Bread begins; the last passover supper is taken always at night, the MESSIAH institutes the MESSIAH'S Supper to be taken on this night just before midnight. The SAVIOR'S last epitaph, HE becomes the "PASCHAL" LAMB in Gethsemane at midnight. During late night around 2 to 3:o'clock the pretrial of Ananias, and the first Sanhedrin trial (illegally done) under Caiphas the High Priest. Peter denial and Judas commits suicide. The second Sanhedrin trial Thursday morning after the sun comes up. The first encounter with Pilate is late in the afternoon, the MESSIAH is then sent to Herod late Friday night the beginning of the 16th. Matt 26:17-20, 36-42, 57, 77; Mark 14:17-18, 32, 36-40, 53, 72; Luke 22:7-14, 39, 40-45, 54, 61-66; Luke  23:1, 6-7  John 13:2; 14:31; 17; 18:1-3, 15, 19, 24, 27-28,  

 8. Friday 16th: THE  SAVIOR and mob returns to Pilate  judgment hall at midnight (Roman time now calls it Friday), Pilate had be awaken from his sleep. The priest and scribes refuse to come into the Judgment Hall  they had not eaten the passover supper, they busy try to killed YAHSHUA, that they did follow the Scriptures.They had not eaten the supper so they could not come into the Judgment Hall it was consider unclean, how foolish and full of sin. Pilates goes back and for talking to YAHSHUA and outside the hall to the priest and scribes.  Early morning Friday at the rising of the sun Pilate’s wife relates her dream to him that she had last night. Pilate now asked the people to choose between Barabbas and the MESSIAH. THE MESSIAH is killed on a tree at (12 O'clock Noon). He has become the burnt offering. The MESSIAH saves the thief on the tree. He dies and the Temple veil is ripped from top to bottom only a hands are seen. The evening lamb or burnt offering escapes all are able to see into the Most Holy Place. The MESSIAH dies and is buried before sunset. The women prepare spices to anoint HIM but the Sabbath has come, they wait until Sunday. Matt 27:1-2, 19, 35;  Mark 15:1, 27; Luke ; 23:13, 33;  John 18:33-40, 19,

9. SABBATH 17th: The MESSIAH rests quietly in the Tomb. Guards are outside guarding the tomb, along with Satan and some of his angels,

 10. Sunday 18th: While it is still dark, the MESSIAH rises from the Tomb! Sees Mary and tells her that HE must wave HIMSELF before HIS FATHER for acceptance of HIS Redemption Work!   Must be accepted to start Salvation Work in Heavenly Sanctuary!

 Conclusion

According to the Bible in Ex. 12:3-5, the unblemished lamb had to be taken from the original flock on the tenth day of the first month, and was place separate or alone by itself up until the fourteenth day of the month of Abib. The MESSIAH stopped HIS work exactly according to the Scriptures, showing that HE was truly the “LAMB OF YAHWEH ELOHIYM,” THE MESSIAH followed the Sacrificial System exactly and it was no longer needed. The Sacrificial System or Moses' book of law (which was "handwritten") was established to show how the MESSIAH would come and die, to redeem man and it showed that at HIS death only (the sacrifices and oblations: Dan 9:27) was taken out of the way and nailed to HIS tree. Colss. 2:14 The MESSIAH completed the assignment by waving HIMSELF before HIS FATHER which now pointed to the Salvation Plan to begin Lev. 23:10-12; John 20:13-17

Now I have said that the Desires of Ages that EGW wrote follow the Scriptures. You can see this for yourself all is there so you read it. Yes it's my belief according to the Scriptures. My faith is SDA not of a church but of the true assembly of YAHWEH! That's my choice, if I stand alone so be it. However, my Bible says this Gospel will be given to all the nations and people that's what I have given. Each individual must make their own choice!

Blessings!

The above information comes from Hebrew University's Jerusalem Center For Biblical Studies in Jerusalem Israel and from Biblical Resources LLC Not from any Seventh-day Adventist sources. 

[Gregory Matthews]

Stinsonmarri has asked Keven why he has believed a "bunch of nonsense."

The reality is that her response is a "bunch of nonsense."  Yes, sometimes she gets it right.  And, some of what she said is correct.   But, some of what she said demonstrates a failure to understand the issues that Keven has raised.  According to the standard that she has used to judge Keven, some of what she has said is a bunch of nonsense.

 

[stinsonmarri]

13 hours ago, Kevin H said:

The above information comes from Hebrew University's Jerusalem Center For Biblical Studies in Jerusalem Israel and from Biblical Resources LLC Not from any Seventh-day Adventist sources. 

Kevin: I did not see one Text of Scriptures. Keep in mind although they call their University Hebrew, they are not! They are Ashkenazi's who came from Japheth and not from Shem. Have your read their almanac p.3? The most important thing is they do not believe in YAHSHUA! This is what amazes me. You rather take the word of those who do not believe that YAHSHUA is THE MESSIAH! Wow, Kevin! So, you take their lies over the Bible truth? These people still keep the passover, YAHSHUA in the Bible changed it to HIS Supper so why don't you follow them with all they believe Kevin? 

The Orthodox don't use electricity so they use candles. Funny they still have to light the candles that's work. If they read their Bibles is said servile work. That Kevin is working in the fields back then or working for someone. The Pharisees took it to the extreme! These are the ones YAHSHUA had to deal with. If you read your history after the Temple fell, they rose up and prospered under the Roman Empire that was still in place!  Their religion is the one that existed today, The House of YAHWEH was called IsraEL, not Rabbinic Judaism!

And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the *feast of unleavened bread unto YAHWEH: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an *Holy Convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. Lev 23:6, 7

Now the first day of the *feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to YAHSHUA, saying to HIM, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? And the disciples did as YAHSHUA had appointed them; and they made ready the passover. Now when the even was come, HE sat down with the twelve.  And as they did eat, HE said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray ME.  Mat 26:17 , 19-21  *That's a pagan word, the correct word is Holy Convocation, and for Set Appointed Time. Lev 23:1 This word is the tradition of man and not the WORDS of YAHWEH!

Pastor Matthew I did not judge Kevin, what I stated is why would he accepted the voices or writings of people who rejected YAHSHUA! It is not true and it is nonsense because they don't believe what we as SDA are suppose to believe. Do they believe in YAHSHUA? The SDA Churches there is very small, don't believe me, check it out with the SDA General Conference:

THE ISRAEL FIELD REPORTS A MEMBERSHIP OF NEARLY 900 MEMBERS AMID A POPULATION OF 7.7 MILLION.

I do not know why you can state what I claim is a bunch of nonsense and I have given Scriptures to back it up! Let me make this clear as well according to the Scriptures:

Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, And consulted that they might take YAHSHUA by subtilty, and kill HIM.  But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people. Mat 26:3-5;  Mark 14:1, 2;  Luke 22:1, 2

The Elders and Pharisees could have stone HIM after they judge Him! They tried to do it with Mary Magdalene; but  YAHSHUA wouldn't let them.

Then said Pilate to them, Take ye HIM, and judge HIM according to your law. The Jews therefore said to him, *It is not lawful for us to put any man to death: That the saying of YAHSHUA might be fulfilled, which HE spoke, signifying what death HE should die. John 18:31, 32  * Tamper not Hebrew or their correct grammar

This is where Scriptures have been tampered with. Because at the end of the first Scriptures where the Hebrew was telling Pilate that they wanted him to kill YAHSHUA for two reason, they feared the people and the second the type of death they wanted. They wanted it to appear that the Gentiles was killing YAHSHUA! The Bible actually said that as well. 

My suggestion to you and Kevin is to read EGW in the Chapter 59: Priestly Plottings she provided the information very well just like the Bible said and I provided. Now, she did not understand everything and believe that they came to Pilate once. But, also went along with her old Methodist view. But she said always if find error even with her writings, take the Bible! However, she got some correct the Pharisees and Sadducees (the elders), feared the people and wanted YAHSHUA'S death to be by the Romans and not just stoning as I stated. Then they felt that the people would accept that. The crowd that came were with them and Satan stir them up for YAHSHUA to be crucified! DA p.538-542, 275

You can make me out as troublesome and against the church, but I stand before YAHWEH! HE is my JUDGE and being a SDA by faith and standing on the Bible as my creed, it's alright.

Again, no one has provided me Scriptures, I have given you plenty. Believe the Jews or believe the Bible that's you choice. The date AD 31 shows that the 15th was on Thursday and the Bible said very clear that YAHSHUA ate the passover meal with HIS disciples and that Pastor Matthew, sir is the facts! 

Blessings to you Pastor and to Kevin!

[stinsonmarri]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:25 PM, Kevin H said:

The synoptic gospels have the last supper as Passover, while John has the crucifixion on Passover, and the feast at Simon's 6 days before Passover, and the last supper was 2 nights later. 

Kevin: John did not say anything about the crucifixion. It was six days before the Unleavened Bread that was the Holy Convocation. This what John wrote:

Then YAHSHUA six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. John 12:1  

All of the synoptic gospels (which also includes John) agreed. What had been twisted and taught today that the passover was a day it was not it was the meal Matthew, Mark and Luke proved it but Luke show and explain the truth.

 Now the first day of the *feast of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to YAHSHUA, saying unto HIM, Where wilt THOU that we prepare for THEE to eat the passover? Mat 26:17

 And before the day of Unleavened Bread, when they were wont to kill the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? Mark 14:12

 Now the feast of Unleavened Bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.  Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, when the passover must be killed. Luke 22:1, 7

And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of IsraEL shall kill it between the evenings. Ex 12:6  

In the fourteenth day of the first month between the evenings is Yahweh's passover. Lev 23:5

The supper was just before midnight on Thursday but the meal was prepared and eaten on the first day of Unleavened Bread! The Pharisees was to busy plotting YAHSHUA'S death and they clearly said that the did not want it on the day the called passover but it was the Unleavened Bread! That's why they did not eat the meal. Possible like you said the Essene eat it two days, history shows they had a seder one and two. If read the Samaritans would light the fires off and so they would have two suppers. I suspect they did not eat the correct one and decided to eat seder two Sabbath evening after they make sure YAHSHUA died before the Unleavened Bread Sabbath that is called an high day! Now, that's the priest pompous day to glorified themselves. Remember Judas left before the meal was changed to YAHSHUA Supper! He only ate the passover meal with them. EGW did not understand that the washing of the feets was not in the passover meal. The reason is when it the passover meal was introduced; they had to gird their feet and eat the meal, but be ready to go! The washing of the feet separated the two meals and Judas sop or dipped with HIM. That's the key word also! What YAHSHUA told him to do quickly was to bring the band to the Garden. Judas knew where YAHSHUA was going to be found! Again, these places were not very close and they had to walk!

Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, And consulted that they might take YAHSHUA by subtilty, and kill HIM. But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.  Mat 26:3-5  

 After two days was the *feast of the passover, and of Unleavened Bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put HIM to death.  But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people. Mark 14:1, 2

If you read the story in John; he speaks more deeply about the Supper at Simon's house. Simon also, lived in Bethany. He knew Mary, Martha and Lazarus (whom YAHSHUA raised from the dead). Now, YAHSHUA lodge at Lazarus and his sister's home. HE went back to Jerusalem on what we called Palm Sunday but return in the evening to Bethany.

 And YAHSHUA entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when HE had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve. 
And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, HE was hungry: Mark 11:11, 12

Listen Kevin, I am not judging you at all. I am amazed that you and the church would accept the words of the Jews. They were never IsraEL! They accept the teachings and practices of the Pharisees. I truly wish that Pastor Matthew would stop saying I am judging anyone. Yes, I reproof you and you should do the same thing to me if I state things not true! The Pastor have reproved me and I have accepted and each time apologized and he knows that. Joe and others' know it too! I have reproved him too, but I don't think he liked it very well.  I am sorry but we all must accept truth in these last days.

I am a sinner like all of us and expect to be judge by THE FATHER. My prayer is to continually change by allowing THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead me. I know I will stop sinning. Then YAHSHUA will stand before THE FATHER for me and say MY BLOOD FATHER has made her whole! THE FATHER Will accept HIS SON'S Plead! YAHSHUA Will then write my name in the Book of Life! That is all I want along with being one of the 144,000. Assisting  in finishing the work so HE can come!

Blessings and Happy Sabbath!

[Gregory Matthews]

Stinsonmarri has multiple times commented on how someone has used the word "Jew" in a post.  The basis for that comment can probably be found in the following post:

http://esau.today/origin-of-the-word-jew/

However, current meanings of words in any language are not limited to their etymology, as she would like to tell us.  Rather they tell us how a word is currently used in the language.   In actual fact, words often have multiple meanings.  

The following is a current use of the word "Jew."  She may not agree, but it is a fact.

Quote

1. a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to Abraham.

    

 

 

[GHansen]

I was told by a leading rabbi in Los Angeles that Herman Wouk's "This is my God" is an excellent resource that describes just what a "Jew" is or believes. "The King of Schnorrers" by Israel Zangwill offers a humorous point of view [certainly the funniest book I have ever read]. That same rabbi suggested in a public meeting that the Jewish community should ask itself what roll they played in bringing about the Holocaust. Elderly Poles with whom I spoke said that the Jewish communities in Poland's countryside abhorred the presence of non Jews, that a Gentile couldn't get even a drink of water while passing through. Basically, Polish Jews hated non Jews in the WW2 era; apparently, the feeling was mutual. Perhaps these folks were simply trying to excuse or justify their behavior. A Polish Jew I knew in the San Fernando Valley escaped during transport to a camp. He was  saved by a Nazi physician who performed a bilateral transmetatarsal amputation i.e., he cut off the frozen front part of both feet. The survivor couldn't walk very well but married a Polish Gentile lady and was still alive in the 1990s. The only place I miss more than the Jewish area of L.A. is the beach.

[stinsonmarri]

19 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

http://esau.today/origin-of-the-word-jew/

Pastor Matthew: I don't agree because it is not the fact. Why provide a racist website. This website may have bits of truth but say IsraEL, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians were the Britons,  Saxons and Scots. It is a site that is overwhelmly White Supremacy! Here is proof:

100 Reasons Israelites Are White, That Is Racist!, Merchants of Sin with Aryan Narrations, Phoenician Origin of Britons, Scots, and Anglo-Saxons (1924)

This is what this website is spreading:

The descendants of Jacob  -later renamed Israel- are white people as we know it today; the Anglo-Saxons, Celtic, Germanic, Slovic, you-name-it White people of today.  The descendants of Esau, whom God despised, are todays jews. ((They)) are Esau Today.

This article will break down how we can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.  While the jews are descendants of Esau, who was born White, he violated the laws of God and took foreign wives, namely Hittite and Hivite women.  He race-mixed all Adamic blood out of his progeny.

Are you serious?

Here is a non bias articles you could have pick:

https://theconversation.com/ashkenazic-jews-mysterious-origins-unravelled-by-scientists-thanks-to-ancient-dna-97962

The word Jews is a modern English word.

Modern Ashkenazi Jews are not the Hebrews/Eber Children of the Bible! – 1980 Jewish Almanac “Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew.” (1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3)

Ashkenazi Jews (/ˌæʃ-, ɑːʃkəˈnɑːzi/ ASH-, AHSH-kə-NAH-zee), also known as Ashkenazic Jews or, by using the Hebrew plural suffix -im, Ashkenazim[a] are a Jewish diaspora population who coalesced in the Holy Roman Empire around the end of the first millennium.[20] Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (3rd ed.), Nationalism and economic development in modern Eurasia

A people of Turkish origin whose life and history are interwoven with the very beginnings of the history of the Jews of Russia. The kingdom of the Chazars was firmly established in most of South Russia long before the foundation of the Russian monarchy by the Varangians (855). Jews have lived on the shores of the Black and Caspian seas since the first centuries of the common era. Historical evidence points to the region of the Ural as the home of the Chazars. Among the classical writers of the Middle Ages, they were known as the "Chozars," "Khazirs," "Akatzirs," and "Akatirs," and in the Russian chronicles as "Khwalisses" and "Ugry Belyeu." CHAZARS: Jewish Encyclopedia

I don't agree because just quoted something but the above come from the Jews themselves. If you read the Virtual Jewish Library: They believe the story of Abraham and the Bible a traditional myth:

 According to biblical tradition, the Hebrews are peoples descended from Shem, one of Noah's sons, through Eber, the eponymous ancestor, and Abraham. Gen. 7:22 f., reports that the flood destroyed all life except that in Noah's ark; consequently, the whole human family descended from Noah and his sons: Japheth, Ham and Shem. As yet, not all of the names of eponymous ancestors in the family lines can be identified,1 but some probabilities are listed in Chart 6.

The descriptions of Abraham are not uniform: at times he appears as a lonely migrant, at others as a chieftain, head of a large family, or as a warrior. Factual details about the patriarch are difficult to establish, for his real significance lies in what is often called "inner history," through which those who looked to Abraham as a forefather gained understanding of themselves as "people of the promise" and attained, a sense of destiny and an appreciation of their particular relationship to their deity. We have noted earlier that some Abrahamic traditions coincide with information coming from Nuzi, which would place Abraham in the Middle Bronze era.

These people do not truly believe in the Bible. I know I lived there! However, the Orthodox Jews are extremist and they accept the Talmud more so than the Bible. I guess you can say that they have ways like the Catholics who believe the pope over the Bible!

Hezekiah’s aim was not only to bring a nation together for a celebration, but to reunite a broken family. He desired to see his family (12 tribes of Israel) around one table, with one Father.

All the tribes of Israel joined in the two week gathering, in which there was great gladness and celebration. Though the kingdom was divided, and people had many differences, this was a time of unity where they could enjoy the Lord and one another.

In this passage, we see King Hezekiah call the entire nation to worship the Lord in Jerusalem. It was during this two week celebration that the people of both the Northern and Southern kingdoms came together as one body, with one heart. Hezekiah & Hephzibah: Study Notes by Marvin Williams, Jr

Their were no lost tribes, Hezekiah through THE MOST HIGH brought back together with true worship. If you read Chronicles and Kings you will find that the priest, the Levites and then the people moved to the Kingdom of Judea. This is before Assyria brough people from other nations they conquered; who mixed with the people who stayed in the Kingdom of Israel. If you continue to read, you will find that YAHWEH came to the mix people and at first the Samaritans was worshiping correctly but they begin to revert back to their old pagan deities mixing it up with false Judaism of the time. 

You will not find the word Jew in the original Hebrew Text or Manuscripts of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not even in the third century Bibles, as some have told. The word ‘Jew’ appeared in both Douay and the KJV well known editions in their 18th century revised versions for the first times. Now, Pastor Matthew this was simple to find. I was very disappointed what website you chose. This website is prejudice even though it gives a fraction of the truth to end up of telling a lie.

This is truly Sad! 

[JoeMo]

Marri,

I refuse to comment on any more of the racist stuff you post.  You are more prejudiced than most white racists I know. You turn almost all posts to which you respond into a racial issue.  I refuse to respond. You are the main reason I post on this site so infrequently any more.

[stinsonmarri]

30 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

Marri,

I refuse to comment on any more of the racist stuff you post.  You are more prejudiced than most white racists I know. You turn almost all posts to which you respond into a racial issue.  I refuse to respond. You are the main reason I post on this site so infrequently any more.

Joe: I do not know who you are anymore. Did you look at the website? If you did you would see what they said and not me. If you would take the time and read Gen 5: 2-5 instead of accusing me of such a ridiculous statement. I stand by that the website is prejudice and give you what they said and not anything I have said. So, kindly my suggestion to you is to read the website! Stop judging before you read the site.

You once were my friend and we never in the past said anything racial and you know it. After Trump then all the racial overtone came out! You have changed from the person I used to know and that is sad to me. I lost my friend!?

[Gregory Matthews]

Stinsonmarri:

Often the truth is hard to listen to.

Jo Mo has accurately described how many others in this forum see you.  It may be that you are not any of what he has said.  However, you seem to work very hard to present yourself in that manner.

It is not just that you seem unable to engage people in a civil manner.  it is that you often engage people on issues unrelated to their posts and which seem to be the same hobby-horses that you return to in just about every post that you make.

In actual fact, those who run this forum have given you more leeway than others would likely have received if they had posted in the manner that you post.

Yes, you are often wrong.  But, you also often have a valid point to make.  But, because of your aggressive, rude manner in which you state it, your point is lost and not considered.

You do it to yourself, by your inability to engage in polite conversation.

 

[stinsonmarri]

20 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Stinsonmarri:

Often the truth is hard to listen to.

Jo Mo has accurately described how many others in this forum see you.  It may be that you are not any of what he has said.  However, you seem to work very hard to present yourself in that manner.

It is not just that you seem unable to engage people in a civil manner.  it is that you often engage people on issues unrelated to their posts and which seem to be the same hobby-horses that you return to in just about every post that you make.

In actual fact, those who run this forum have given you more leeway than others would likely have received if they had posted in the manner that you post.

Yes, you are often wrong.  But, you also often have a valid point to make.  But, because of your aggressive, rude manner in which you state it, your point is lost and not considered.

You do it to yourself, by your inability to engage in polite conversation.

 

Pastor Matthew: I have never been rude. It is just you do not like what I have to say. I will stand for truth. I am not rude but if that's what you want to believe because I have disagreed with you that is fine. What's the problem with some of you are you don't like the things I present. Many in  the email have warned me of the false claims about me. They were concern. I stand for truth and I also defended the lies Trump have stated, and racial hatred and the many false things that were said. To be honest you and others have been rude and judgmental. I am sorry that you have become this way. When have I said something wrong? You and I know the reason for this change. You know what you have accuse me of in my email here.

But you know it's alright, the Bible said to love your enemy and those who say all manner of evil against you for MY sake. I still love you all, but I going to provide the Bible and what its states. I have a right to comment if I don't agree. I am not rude, you just don't like what I have said. Sad thing is not one of you that claim I am rude, showed in the Bible what I have said that is incorrect.

You will come and say constantly that what I commented on is not of the SDA Denomination. That is correct but I have never said that I always agreed with the church. But, what's so funny so have many of the others complain about the church. Some have even left the church and they are okay but me. Interesting!

Finally, Pastor show me what have I said that was rude. Being a history major, knowing my Bible, just what? If I am what you have accuse me of then are you going to tell me what I said that was rude or how I said it!

Thank You!

[stinsonmarri]

6 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

You are the main reason I post on this site so infrequently any more.

Nothing should keep you from posting. I have seen many comments you've post. Anger with me having stopped you. You are not being honest at all. I never said anything racial on this site! I could not understand why Pastor Matthew wanted to use a website that is racial to connect it with what I said. I said that THE WORD JEW IS NOT THE ANCIENT HEBREW! Now, I have said this when we were once friend and stated like I always had the J was made up in the Middle Ages! I said and still say even now that the Hebrews which means Eber children come from Shem. Been saying that a long time when were friends. Ashkenazi's themselves in their Almanac say they were not the ancient Hebrews. What is racial about that. Yes, I have stood up for the Canaanites and their language that Moses wrote! Why because they come from Ham? What is racial about that please tell me. 

All of this anger comes from what I said about Trump and what you and others accuse Black Lives Matter. So, let's be honest. I have moved on a you and others are stuck in the mud because you choose to do so. I wrote about the Topic what date was YAHSHUA CRUCIFIED. I gave Scriptures and said nothing racial. Until, Pastor Matthew wanted it to appear that I was accepting information from that website. I was not going to let that happen. It is not true! So, I wrote and put the correct information and not a racial website.

I will not let anyone accuse me of something I did not say or do! If you felt I said anything wrong about the subject that's fine.

Thank You!

[stinsonmarri]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:22 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to Abraham.

Pastor Matthew: I come to apologize because this statement is correct. I was upset about the website that I did not read this carefully as I should. I will always stand up when I have done something wrong. I was wrong and I am truly sorry.

The traditional religion is correct this is Judaism that YAHSHUA Spoke of. This traditional religion started during and after the Babylonian exile.

The original Hebrew do trace their origin back to Abraham. So, the quote is correct. I must do the right thing.  I am not perfect and THE HOLY SPIRIT leads me to do the right and honest thing. To admit my mistake! Forgive me!

Blessings!

 

[Theophilus]

I understand the problem with the website. I wished I'd never looked at it.

 

[stinsonmarri]

5 hours ago, Theophilus said:

I understand the problem with the website. I wished I'd never looked at it.

 

I wrote on the subject. I did tell Kevin that he was taking the Rabbinic Jewish belief that is a bunch of junk. Why; they do not believe that YAHSHUA is THE MESSIAH. They don't believe that the passover is over when THE SAVIOUR became the Burnt Offering on the tree! HE instituted HIS Supper in the place of the passover. HIS BODY IS the Unleavened Bread and HIS BLOOD represents the wine we drank. This point us to the Salvation Plan. The Redemption Plan was complete when HE became "THE LAMB that taketh the way the sins of the world." Rabbinic Judaism do not teach this. YAHSHUA Said this:

Ye hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto ME with their mouth, and honoureth ME with their lips; but their heart is far from ME. But in vain they do worship ME, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.  Mat 15:7-9  

They keep the Talmud and not the Bible and all of its writings. I was not referring to Kevin, I was referring to his sources. I could not understand why do he rely on sources that teaches against the Bible and truth? The quote that Pastor Matthew gave was correct:

Jews are a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is  (Rabbanic) Judaism and (Judah does) trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of IsraEL to Abraham. Judaism was not practice by IsraEL it is a false religion.

Please, I beg every one do not take my word. Be like the Bereans search the Scriptures and see what I provide is so. Come back and show the Biblical and historical sources that I made an error. I will gladly stand up and admit it. But you cannot include my saying with a racial website that is wrong!

Blessings!

[Theophilus]

I'm talking about the  esau.com website. Talks about problems with racial mixing, says that Israelites are white== Looks like a "christian identity" website to me.

[GHansen]

אַךְ טוֹב לְיִשְׂרָאֵל אֱלֹהִים לְבָרֵי לֵבָב

Truly God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart. Ps. 73:1

There has always been just one true Israel, comprised of the pure in heart

When Jesus saw Nathaniel, he said  "Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!" John 1:47

God's concern has always been a spiritual one. The guileless, the pure in heart, those are they who comprise the True Israel.

[stinsonmarri]

11 hours ago, Theophilus said:

I'm talking about the  esau.com website. Talks about problems with racial mixing, says that Israelites are white== Looks like a "christian identity" website to me.

They were from Shem, who was olive brown. They did mixed with the children of Ham especially the Canaanites. Abraham married Deborah after Sarah died. The Midianites, came from this union and, who did worship at first, YAHWEH! Moses married his daughter and Jethro's wife was a Cushite! Lot married a woman from Sodom and she was a Canaanite. Judah son married Tamara and you need to read the story. In the end Judah had twins from her and one of the twins was the line of Jessie, David, Solomon to YAHSHUA! Rahab married Salmon from the tribe of Judah who had Boaz. They had Obed who married Ruth. Ruth came from Lot and one of his daughter who formed the Moabites. They had Jessie, who had David, who had Solomon. Solomon mother. Bathsheba's people were Canaanites who worked with IsraEL. They were in their armies and worked in the palace doing all types of administrative work. 

When Israel left Egypt a "mix crowd," left with them. These were all types of Afrikan people. Later when Persia took over who were Aryan people from Japheth, IsraEL and Afrikan mixed with them. Iran means Aryan and this Tribe were the Persians. They were the ones who stayed in Babylon. The Chaldean was the ruling class of Babylon at this time, but this city was a Black city. IsraEL who came back from Babylon did not mix with Japheth children as much due to biases. They felt that they were better and that's why all should read Acts Chapter 11 and 12.

After the temple failed, Tyrus send these people to Spain, Egypt (Greece was ruling now), other parts Afrika and Europe. A lot of Israel became Catholic and Islamic during this time. All of this is part of history. I pray that all would read their history and you can start with the book of Esther. A lot of mix people joined with Israel then. Persia conqueror many nations from parts of Greece, Afrika, India, Arabia and more.

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

14 hours ago, GHansen said:

אַךְ טוֹב לְיִשְׂרָאֵל אֱלֹהִים לְבָרֵי לֵבָב

Truly God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart. Ps. 73:1

There has always been just one true Israel, comprised of the pure in heart

When Jesus saw Nathaniel, he said  "Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!" John 1:47

God's concern has always been a spiritual one. The guileless, the pure in heart, those are they who comprise the True Israel.

What is a pure Israel? Now, the True IsraEL were the Hebrews. Exactly as the quote Pastor Matthew gave, the Jews are a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is  (Rabbanic) Judaism. True IsraEL was never Rabbinic Judaism or just Judaism. The name of the kingdom was call Judah not Judaism! They were call IsraEL all the way to the time of YAHSHUA. If you notice EL was in the name which was their belief. YAHWEH called:

 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to YAHWEH, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it;  and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. Exo 12:38, 45, 48, 49

Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to YAHWEH, to serve HIM, and to love THE NAME of YAHWEH, to be HIS servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of MY Covenant;  Even them will I bring to MY Holy Mountain, and make them joyful in MY House of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon MINE altar; for MINE House shall be called an House of prayer for all people. Isa 56:6, 7  

There was no unified Judaism in the Second Temple period (circa 500 B.C.E.–70 C.E.), no institution governing membership, liturgy, or confessional statements, as is common in modern religions. Some scholars suggest that we cannot speak of ancient “Judaism” as a religion: people of this period perceived themselves as a belonging to an ethnic group—“Judeans” or “Israelites” strongly connected to their homeland—rather than a religious group. However, even this distinction between “religious” and “secular” institutions may not have existed in ancient Israel and Judah.  Society of Biblical Literature

Now can you find in the Old KJV Scriptures or the Dead Sea Scrolls where it was call Judaism please. I hope I will not be accuse of being rude by asking you a question!

Thank You!

 

[stinsonmarri]

14 hours ago, GHansen said:

אַךְ טוֹב לְיִשְׂרָאֵל אֱלֹהִים לְבָרֵי לֵבָב

I forgot, GHansen: This is the modern script; this is not the ancient script! Again, it came from the Phoenicians, a Canaanite Tribe!

Be bless!

[GHansen]

4 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I forgot, GHansen: This is the modern script; this is not the ancient script! Again, it came from the Phoenicians, a Canaanite Tribe!

Be bless!

I'd like you to provide an example of what you mean by "ancient script."

[Gregory Matthews]

GHansen:  The answer to your question may be found at:

History of the Hebrew alphabet - Wikipedia

 

[GHansen]

14 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I forgot, GHansen: This is the modern script; this is not the ancient script! Again, it came from the Phoenicians, a Canaanite Tribe!

Be bless!

Stinsonmarri, While you're gathering a sample of that "ancient script," I'd also like to know what books of the Bible were originally written in that "ancient script" i.e., what archaeological evidence there is that proves books of the Bible were written in an "ancient script" i.e., a script different from that in which the earliest Biblical transcriptions were written. I would expect you to know that there are many different Hebrew fonts representing different styles of the Hebrew alphabet. Whether the style is a modern style or an older style, the message they convey is the same. Regardless of the type face, Psalm 73:1 says that the pure in heart comprise the Israel of God. John 1:47 conveys a similar message by identifying a true Israelite as a guileless person. Obviously, if there were "true Israelites" there were also false ones. These were the people that Jesus described as having the devil for their father rather than Abraham. In John 8, Jesus  told the Jews they were not really the children of Abraham but the children of Satan the murderer. To be a child of Abraham was/is to evince the faith of Abraham. Because the Jews of Jesus day were children of the father of lies, they could/would not believe the truth Jesus taught. All their pretensions to religiosity were lies.

[Gregory Matthews]

GHansen:  Stinsonmarri can respond to your questions, but I will step in here with a response.

*  We do not have any autographs of any Biblical book.  Therefore, we do not have any proof as to  the script used to write any Biblical book.  Yes, for books that we can date as to authorship, such as the New Testament, we can assume a specific alphabetic script that was in use on that date.

*  Alphabetic script is not related to font.  Over hundreds/thousands of years, all alphabets have changed the manner in which their letters were written.  The English language is written by using Roman/Latin script.  If you want to see how this script has changed over the years the following is a good article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_script