The 7 Last Plagues - When? What?

[8thdaypriest]

Revelation 15:1-3  "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished. 2 And I saw, as it were, a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had come off victorious from the beast and from his image and from the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of God. 3 And they sang the song of Moses the bond-servant of God and the song of the Lamb, saying, 'Great and marvelous are Thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Thy ways, Thou King of the nations.'" (NAS)

The victorious (over the Beast) are seen standing on "the sea of glass" BEFORE the last seven plagues are poured out.   Makes me think the saints are resurrected/translated BEFORE the seven last plagues are poured out.  Perhaps they are removed from this earth on the same day the plagues begin, or maybe 7 days before the plagues begin - similar to  Noah and the closed door on the ark. 

Same cannot be said of the "trumpets", beginning back in Revelation Cpt 8. 

Trumpets were warnings of worse to come.   Last plagues are "the last". 

[8thdaypriest]

I would like to compare/contrast the trumpet plagues, with the 7 last plagues. 

Anyone up for such?

[phkrause]

I myself have never checked to see if the last 7 plagues in Egypt match the 7 plagues at the end of time!!

[8thdaypriest]

The trumpet plagues are NOT UNIVERSAL. 

The vial/bowl/last plagues ARE UNIVERSAL. 

First Trumpet:  1/3 of trees and all green grass are "burned up"

Such loss of vegetation would seriously effect the planet's supply of oxygen. 

compare

First Bowl:  a foul and loathsome sore came upon those who had the mark of the Beast, and upon those who worshiped his image.

Note:  Rev 13:16 says "He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark", and Rev 13:8 says "And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life".    This makes the first bowl plague universal (effecting the entire world). 

If all those written in the Book of Life have been removed from the earth when the bowl plagues are poured out, then they would not be effected by this universal bowl plague.

 

[8thdaypriest]

15 hours ago, phkrause said:

I myself have never checked to see if the last 7 plagues in Egypt match the 7 plagues at the end of time!!

At the first plague of Egypt, the waters of the Nile "became blood".  

Only the first 3 plagues of Egypt impacted both Israelites and Egyptians.  The last 7 plagues affected only Egyptians. 

The 4th plague of Egypt, brought biting flies.  Those bites could have produced "loathsome sores", so perhaps could see a parallel. 

[JoeMo]

18 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The victorious (over the Beast) are seen standing on "the sea of glass" BEFORE the last seven plagues are poured out.   Makes me think the saints are resurrected/translated BEFORE the seven last plagues are poured out.

EXACTLY!!  I've been preaching this for years! 

All those pre-trib rapturists are gonna be pretty disappointed when they have to face the seals and the trumpets (at least the first four or five trumpets). However, these events could come in rapid succession or even simultaneously.

31 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

At the first plague of Egypt, the waters of the Nile "became blood".  

Only the first 3 plagues of Egypt impacted both Israelites and Egyptians.  The last 7 plagues affected only Egyptians. 

The 4th plague of Egypt, brought biting flies.  Those bites could have produced "loathsome sores", so perhaps could see a parallel. 

The second and third bowls (all waters turned to blood) appear to be more closely associated with the first plague on Egypt.

[JoeMo]

As I compare them, I don't see a strong argument for comparing sequence of the Egyptian plagues with the sequence of the bowls of God's wrath.  I do, however, believe that the plagues on Egypt are a type of the wrath to be visited on the unrepentant - proper sequence or not.

[8thdaypriest]

I believe the Trumpet plagues are instigated, or caused/ or will at least be used by Satan to deceive the whole world into believing that he is Christ returned.  Satan needs to make 7 plagues, preceding his appearance, because every man-on-the-street has heard of the 7 last plagues. 

Not many know there will be 7 trumpet plagues first. 

I believe the LORD has given us a clue to who is behind the Trumpet plagues.  "One-third".   

Satan's tail "drew a third of the stars of heaven". 

The timing:

When the 7th trumpet sounds in Revelation 11:15, "the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ".  It's time to reward the prophets and saints and everyone who fears HIS name (15:18), and it's time for His wrath to be poured out, and time for the dead to be judged.   Sure sounds like the Second Coming to me.   

If "the cup" of the LORD's "wrath" is poured out in 7 final plagues, they will begin at the 7th trumpet.  

Paul said "the dead" will be raised incorruptible "at the last trumpet" (I Cor 15:52). 

[8thdaypriest]

Second Trumpet plague:  "A great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood;  and a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed."  (Rev 8:8-9)

Third Trumpet plague:  "A great star fell from heaven, on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water; and a third of the waters became bitter. 

Algae in the oceans produce 75 percent of our oxygen.  Killing 1/3 of all sea life would severely decrease available oxygen.  Killing 
"every living creature" in the world's "sea" would almost wipe out life on earth. 

The idea of something so powerful, that could wipe out all ocean life - is almost beyond imagination. 

Second bowl plague:  "Then the second messenger poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died."  (Rev 16:3)

This would completely disrupt the water cycle.

Which fits with the third bowl plague.  All rivers and springs of water "became as blood."  The "angel of the waters" then says "You have given them blood to drink, for it is their just due."  "They shed the blood of saints and prophets". 

If this is literal and global, there will be no water to drink, and no oxygen to breathe. 

After only three bowl plagues, I'm wondering how anyone could survive. 

[8thdaypriest]

I remember a video about Noah's flood, and the phd doing the lecture asked, "How do you contain a flood in a local area, or even a large area, when the water covered over all the mountains by 15 cubits?   Wouldn't it spill over?"

This got me to thinking about localized plagues.   How would you contain them?  - especially the ones effecting waters and seas?  Wouldn't currents carry the contamination everywhere with a few years time? 

[JoeMo]

I wonder how much of the "all life on earth" and "1/3 of all the creatures in the sea" is hyperbole (an accepted practice at that time). Does "all" literally mean "all"?  Would it be that much of an exaggeration to say the death off 99.9% is "all"? Assuming a population of 8 Billion when the trumpets and plagues hit (to make the math simple), a remnant of 0.1% of humanity would still be 8 million people. If "all" means 99.99% of humanity died, that would still leave 800,000 people left alive.  An example of this hyperbole os shown in Zeph. 3:

"I have decided to assemble the nations,
    to gather the kingdoms
and to pour out my wrath on them—
    all my fierce anger.
The whole world will be consumed
    by the fire of my jealous anger.  Then I will purify the lips of the peoples,
    that all of them may call on the name of the Lord
    and serve him shoulder to shoulder." (Zeph.3:8-9)

How could the whole world be consumed by His fierce anger, and suddenly He's purifying the lips of the people!  Who are these people?  They are the remnant left on earth after the bowls of wrath.

Could water turning to blood be an allegory for the water becoming too polluted to drink or live in? Or could it be a bloom of red algae that sucks the oxygen out of the oceans, suffocates sea life, and covers the surface of the water with slime, inhibiting evaporation? 

[8thdaypriest]

All possible I think. 

In the Revelation, it is difficult to determine at times, what is symbolism or hyperbole.  So much in the Revelation IS symbolism:  Beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, etc. etc. etc.  Christ stands in the midst of 7 candlesticks that "are the seven churches".  But the "seven churches" could be 7 literal congregations in places around the Mediterranean, or 7 time periods in church history, or 7 types of believers.  Even the time periods have been interpreted to mean different things - literal days, or years. 

How to separate literal from the symbolic, when it comes to warnings about the last judgments/plagues ????

If something is described in Revelation, I think there would need to be at least one other description of the same in another passage of Scripture. 

[8thdaypriest]

16 hours ago, JoeMo said:

The whole world will be consumed
    by the fire of my jealous anger.  Then I will purify the lips of the peoples,
    that all of them may call on the name of the Lord
    and serve him shoulder to shoulder." (Zeph.3:8-9)

"Then" - in the verse quoted, does not have to imply the following event described,  follows immediately after the first event.  It could follow 1000 years later.

My interpretation would be:

Whole world destroyed by fire at the Second Coming.

THEN - 1000 years later

The LORD will purify the lips of the peoples ('the rest of the dead" - resurrected at the 8th millennium)

"The peoples" are not "the people" = Israel.

"The peoples" are "the nations in the four corners of the earth". 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Universal or do you mean global?

[8thdaypriest]

13 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Universal or do you mean global?

I do mean "global", but more than that.  Humans have sent satellites far beyond this planet.  Won't those human creations also be destroyed?  There are human beings living on space stations.  They will also be effected by the plagues.  It would include everything under Satan's dominion.  How far does Satan's dominion reach?  Is it only this one planet, or does his dominion reach beyond? 

God said to His Son, "You LORD in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.  They will perish."   Hebrews 1:10-11.  "They will grow old like a garment, and like a garment you will roll them up."  

How would He "role up" just one planet? 

Hence the need for "new heavens", not simply a "new earth". 

[JoeMo]

"the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time." Romans 8:21-22) 

[Gregory Matthews]

I consider the Earth to be a  part of a unit which is our solar system.  I consider the Earth to be the only planet with intelligent life in this solar system.

 

I suspect that there is intelligent life in other parts of this cosmos.

 

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I suspect that there is intelligent life in other parts of this cosmos.

Like in heaven ...

[8thdaypriest]

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I do mean "global", but more than that.  Humans have sent satellites far beyond this planet.  Won't those human creations also be destroyed?  There are human beings living on space stations.  They will also be effected by the plagues.  It would include everything under Satan's dominion.  How far does Satan's dominion reach?  Is it only this one planet, or does his dominion reach beyond? 

God said to His Son, "You LORD in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.  They will perish."   Hebrews 1:10-11.  "They will grow old like a garment, and like a garment you will roll them up."  

How would He "role up" just one planet? 

Hence the need for "new heavens", not simply a "new earth". 

Though I would think this solar system (around our sun) could be "rolled" (swirled) into a black hole. 

[8thdaypriest]

20 hours ago, JoeMo said:

"the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time." Romans 8:21-22) 

I like that.  "bondage to decay".   Decay is what happens when things slow down, run down, break down - without the input of divine energy. 

[8thdaypriest]

I was looking for other passages that describe disasters similar to those described by John in the Revelation trumpet plagues.

Joel Cpt 1-2  Descriptions of things happening just as "the day of the LORD is at hand" seem similar to the trumpet plagues. 

The land dried up,  pastures dried up, trees withered or stripped bare,  animals starving.

v.19-20  ""For fire has devoured the open pastures, and a flame has burned all the trees of the field".  "The water brooks are dried up."

So 1/3 of grass and trees burned up.

I had a thought about the streams "turned to blood".   Our dirt here is red.  Our dried mud looks a lot like dried blood.  Hmmm?   

v.9  "The grain offering and the drink offering have been cut off from the house of the LORD"

2:3  "A fire devours before them and behind them a flame burns;  The land is like the Garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness;  Surely nothing shall escape them. 

"Them" it seems would refer to the hordes/army under Satan's leadership, if Joel's prophecy parallel's the Revelation. 

Joel 2:4-9 reminds me of the "locusts" in Rev Cpt 9, under the 5th trumpet.   We know this must be prior to the SC, because these hordes are commanded not to harm anyone with the seal of God.  Those sealed of God are not rescued from this earth until His glorious return.

I do realize that Babylon fulfilled many of these these prophecies.  But this could be a duel prophecy - with application also to the time just prior to the SC.  The things that happened to Israel, will happen to the whole world. 

 

[JoeMo]

12 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I do realize that Babylon fulfilled many of these these prophecies.  But this could be a duel prophecy - with application also to the time just prior to the SC.  The things that happened to Israel, will happen to the whole world. 

I agree.  Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn wrote a best-selling book ("The Harbinger") that goes into this concept in great detail.

[stinsonmarri]

On 10/15/2019 at 5:18 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

The victorious (over the Beast) are seen standing on "the sea of glass" BEFORE the last seven plagues are poured out.   Makes me think the saints are resurrected/translated BEFORE the seven last plagues are poured out.  Perhaps they are removed from this earth on the same day the plagues begin, or maybe 7 days before the plagues begin - similar to  Noah and the closed door on the ark. 

Same cannot be said of the "trumpets", beginning back in Revelation Cpt 8. 

Trumpets were warnings of worse to come.   Last plagues are "the last". 

Well, I am sorry to disagree and allow me to let the Greek words provide their meaning. Sometimes we use other Versions that provide their perception to show how people would easily believe in something that is not factual or true.

Looking at the NAS version you provided and the KJV both show one particular truth!

And I saw as it was, a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had come off victorious from the beast and from his image and from the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of God.  Rev 15:2 (NAS)

 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Rev 15:2

Here we see the word “had,” which is past tense, and the victory occasion was repeated earlier in more depth:

 And I looked, and, lo, a LAMB stood on the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred forty and four thousand, having HIS NAME and HIS FATHER’S NAME written in their foreheads. And I heard A VOICE from Heaven, as THE VOICE of many waters, and as THE VOICE of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:  And they sung as it were a new song before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the LAMB whithersoever HE goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto ELOHIYM and to the LAMB. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault. Rev 14:1-5 

Now, these special virgins were in the Temple standing before THE FATHER and HIS SON called THE LAMB!

When you follow prophecies, we must remember HIS WAYS and THOUGHTS are not like ours! So, what are you saying Marrian? When we write we always give the conclusion at the end of the story! YAHSHUA gives it first and then shows how it came about! HE also repeats it and each time gives more detailed information. And I will provide it in my presentation. So, the word in Verse 5 states: "And after that..." Now that you see the sign of those who got victory over the beast and his image! Now, time goes back to see the wrath of THE FATHER over the beast and his throne.

Someone stated the 7 last plagues appear to be related to the plagues of Egypt and they are right except just a couple the sun and the great earthquake. Notice that these plagues are explained why they were giving, who they targeted and the time they were given. I have stated clearly many times that the time hour was given a lot!

Saying with a loud voice, Fear ELOHIYM, and give Honour to HIM; for the hour of HIS Judgment is come and Worship HIM that made Heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Rev 14:7 

For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness for in one hour is she made desolate. Rev 18:17, 19 

Now, I said also that the hour in these verses is prophetic time and actually is 60 days when the beast rules and there is no intercession. So twice repeated that YAHSHUA would come as a thief if we are not watchful! This Version simplified it for a better understanding!

So, Remember therefore how thou hast received taken and heard, and hold fast guard , and repent. if therefore So whenever thou shalt not watch, I will shall come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not no way know what hour I will shall come upon thee. Rev 3:3  exeGeses ready research Bible

The Seven last plagues like Egypt the wicked had sores, blood, frogs, darkness, and hail! What is given in the OT, the New shows that it agrees. When you look at all of the Scriptures below notice that more detail are given when it repeats. Also realize that the great city is Jerusalem and for the third and final time, it will be destroyed. You will also realize that Armageddon is a battle between to foes, the whore, and the beast. The whore army does not have the mark of the beast. What you say! Think about it the saints are being care for just like Elijah! Dan Chapter 12 compliments the Book of Revelation you must combine 7 -12 with it to get the complete picture. I cannot understand why it is not understood that Babylon the great city is Jerusalem. I have asked show me who killed the prophets. Only the Children of IsraEL went after the prophets and final killed THE GREATEST PROPHET- YAHSHUA!

Finally, the Bible is clear the 144,000 and those in Dan 12:2 who will awake. Some to assist the 144,000 and the others for everlasting contempt. I do not see anywhere that there is going to this so call rapture. Why state something that the Bible does not say. If EGW said if she believed something in the past that is found to be wrong and not to hold on to it; then why do, we need to believe other writings who do not even keep all of the Commandments? I just want you to please think about it! The Bible in 1Co 15:51; 1Th 4:15-17; Rev 1:7 states clearly that all saints who remain on the earth alive will be caught up together with those who are resurrected. The Bible also states every eye shall see YAHSHUA coming. Look at the Scriptures below and make your decision wisely and prayerfully!

And I heard A GREAT VOICE out of the Temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of ELOHIYM upon the earth. And the first went and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O YAHWEH, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, YAHWEH EL SHADDAI, true and Righteous are THY Judgments. And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed THE NAME of ELOHIYM, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give HIM Honour. And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain and blasphemed THE ELOHIYM of Heaven because of their pains and their sores and repented not of their deeds. And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of EL SHADDAI. [Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a GREAT VOICE out of the Temple of Heaven, from the Throne, saying, IT IS DONE. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before ELOHIYM, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of HIS Wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of Heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed ELOHIYM because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Rev 16:1-21

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, fall on us, and hide us from THE FACE of HIM that sitteth on the Throne, and from the Wrath of THE LAMB: For the great day of WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 6:14-17 

And they heard A GREAT VOICE  from Heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to Heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were terrified and gave honour to the ELOHIYM of Heaven. The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our SOVEREIGN, and of HIS MESSIAH; and HE shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before ELOHIYM on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped ELOHIYM, Saying, We give thee thanks, O YAHWEH EL SHADDAI, which art, and wast, and art to come; because THOU hast taken to THEE THY  GREAT POWER, and hast Reigned. Rev 11:12-17 

Job 38:22; Isa 28:2, 17 (hail the final plague).

Blessings!

[8thdaypriest]

KJV  Revelation 15:2 And <2532> I saw <1492> (5627) as it were <5613> a sea <2281> of glass <5193> mingled <3396> (5772) with fire <4442>: and <2532> them that had gotten the victory <3528> (5723) over <1537> the beast <2342>, and <2532> over <1537> his <846> image <1504>, and <2532> over <1537> his <846> mark <5480>, and over <1537> the number <706> of his <846> name <3686>, stand <2476> (5761) on <1909> the sea <2281> of glass <5193>, having <2192> (5723) the harps <2788> of God <2316>. (Rev 15:2 KJV)

3528 nika,w nikao {nik-ah'-o}
Meaning:  1) to conquer 1a) to carry off the victory, come off victorious

5723 Tense - Present (See 5774) Voice - Active (See 5784) Mood - Participle (See 5796) Count - 2549
There are no notes for this verse.

John is seeing events as they are happening.  He has been carried into the future.  The text does not say, "those who will have the victory" - in any translation. 
 

[8thdaypriest]

I think the argument CAN be made, that the saved will be standing before the throne in Heaven,JUST BEFORE the last plagues are poured out.  Why?  Because the sealed are NOT MENTIONED during the 7 bowl plagues.  They ARE MENTIONED during the trumpet plagues. 

NOTE:  Mrs White says the saints will be on earth during the 7 last plagues.  She also says "these plagues are not universal".  Now which plagues might those be?  Answer:  the trumpet plagues.  (NOTE:  I do not personally believe in her "gift of prophecy".)  Those who want to support her writings argue for the bowl plagues before Christ appears. 

Jesus is described as coming at least FOUR TIMES in the book of Revelation (probably six).  The story is told again and again, each time giving different details.  The Book of Revelation is not sequential from 1:1 to the end.  It's called a chiastic structure.

Rev 6:12-17 is Christ coming.

Rev 11:15-19 is events in Heaven on the day Christ leaves for earth

Rev 14:16  the earth is reaped

Rev 19:11-2-:6  Christ on the white horse arrives to tread the winepress of God's wrath.  Beast and kings of the earth gathered.  Beast captured and also False Prophet.  Both thrown into the Lake of Fire.  Dragon bound in bottomless pit

From Wikipedia:  Chiastic structure, or chiastic pattern, is a literary technique in narrative motifs and other textual passages. An example of chiastic structure would be two ideas, A and B, together with variants A' and B', being presented as A,B,B',A'. ... It may be regarded as chiasmus scaled up from clauses to larger units of text.