The 7 Last Plagues - When? What?

[JoeMo]

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." (1 Thess. 4:17)

"Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." (Zech 14:3-5)

One could infer from these verses that Jesus' Second coming happens in 2 phases:

1. Jesus comes in the sky to gather his saints from the earth. After that, the 7 last plagues fall.

2. Jesus comes to earth to destroy or subdue the remaining wicked; and all His saints return with Him.

 

[8thdaypriest]

23 hours ago, JoeMo said:

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." (1 Thess. 4:17)

"Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." (Zech 14:3-5)

One could infer from these verses that Jesus' Second coming happens in 2 phases:

1. Jesus comes in the sky to gather his saints from the earth. After that, the 7 last plagues fall.

2. Jesus comes to earth to destroy or subdue the remaining wicked; and all His saints return with Him.

 

#1 and #2 may be separated by 500 to 1000 years. 

#1 could be the start of the 49th year (also a 7th year)

#2 could be the start of "the Jubilee" which began half way through the 49th year. 

The Jubilee year was not actually the 50th year.  The 49th year was shortened by six months.  

After the Jubilee year, the cycle started over. 

 

 

[JoeMo]

20 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

#1 and #2 may be separated by 500 to 1000 years. 

On the other hand, it might be only a matter of days or weeks. It all depends on whether you believe the Millennium is on earth or in Heaven.

[8thdaypriest]

On 10/23/2019 at 2:09 PM, JoeMo said:

On the other hand, it might be only a matter of days or weeks. It all depends on whether you believe the Millennium is on earth or in Heaven.

Or maybe you believe half the millennium is spent "in the Father's House" and half back on earth, to prepare for the resurrection of "the rest". 

[8thdaypriest]

the effects of the last bowl plagues are so powerful, no one (left on earth) could survive them 

No clean water  (unless bottled beforehand), fish all dead

No oxygen

No trees or grass or other plants (hence no food unless preserved ahead of time), animals/birds all die from lack of oxygen and no food

all the while suffering from boils/sores all over

the sun scorching with "great heat" and "fire"  (during day?)

"the throne of the Beast" completely dark (at night?)  (does this mean the electric grid has failed)

greatest earthquake ever to occur levels mountains, and islands sink  (Richter scale of 12+)

100 pound hail stones fall (great volcanic activity?)

Beast and False Prophet are both consumed as the earth burns (Satan's entire false network - of religious and civil power)

 2Peter 3:7  "The heavens and the earth which now exist are kept in store by the same word, reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 

The SDA scenario puts the "perdition" of  the "ungodly" 1000 years after the Glorious Return.  I personally put it AT the Glorious Return.

2Peter 3:10-13   "But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with great heat;  both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.     . . . .  "looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?  . . . Nevertheless we, according to His promise look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." 

1000 years AFTER this event, the "rest of the dead" will be resurrected on a "new earth" (a restored earth?).  Many will come to know the LORD.  The majority will rebel against Christ and His government.  They will be destroyed by "fire" when they come up to attack Israel/Jerusalem/Christ and His ruling priesthood. 

[8thdaypriest]

Reminds me of the creation/evolution debate.  Both sides looking at the same sets of data.  Interpreting them differently.  Evolutionists saying that processes we currently see, are the same as they have always been.  Creationists saying a worldwide flood event caused the thousands of layers of sediment with fossils in them (buried rapidly which avoided decomposition).  Two explanations for starlight reaching the earth.  Two explanations for the ice age.  Etc. etc. 

Joe, you read the same passages I do.  You believe the terrible plagues will effect only a limited area of the earth.  Some areas will be spared, resulting in survivors.

I believe the plagues will be worldwide, because the Beast will rule over the entire world and people the world over will worship the Beast and his image.  And people the world over will persecute the people of God, who have His "seal". 

I keep looking for a verse that says "The people of God will spend 1000 years with Christ in the Father's House."  There is no verse like that.  There's also no verse that says, "The saints will then live for 1000 years on the earth, before 'the rest' 'live again'.  No verse like that either. 

I guess the LORD didn't want us to have concrete "proof" either way. 

 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I keep looking for a verse that says "The people of God will spend 1000 years with Christ in the Father's House."  There is no verse like that.  There's also no verse that says, "The saints will then live for 1000 years on the earth, before 'the rest' 'live again'.  No verse like that either. 

I guess the LORD didn't want us to have concrete "proof" either way.

This is such a true and insightful observation, Rachel.  It's the reason I try to never call someone wrong (except one person who thinks Michael Pence is the Michael of Daniel 12).  Even though there are no explicit Bible verses to "prove" either side of the argument, there are sound and robust scriptural arguments to support either side, as far as I'm concerned.  I just side with the Millennium on earth proponents.

[8thdaypriest]

18 hours ago, JoeMo said:

This is such a true and insightful observation, Rachel.  It's the reason I try to never call someone wrong (except one person who thinks Michael Pence is the Michael of Daniel 12).  Even though there are no explicit Bible verses to "prove" either side of the argument, there are sound and robust scriptural arguments to support either side, as far as I'm concerned.  I just side with the Millennium on earth proponents.

So when do you think "heaven and earth will pass away"?  Where do you put that - time wise?

[phkrause]

6 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

So when do you think "heaven and earth will pass away"?  Where do you put that - time wise?

So how do you read Revelation 21:1?

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

[phkrause]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:22 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

I keep looking for a verse that says "The people of God will spend 1000 years with Christ in the Father's House."  There is no verse like that.

I don't see any verse like that either, but I do see Rev 20  RSV (My Harper Study Bible)

This Section is called:  I. The binding of Satan

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain.

2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.

J. The millennial reign of Christ

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

K. The loosing of Satan

7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison

8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

9 And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

L. The great white throne judgement

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.

13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;

15 and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

[TrevorL]

Greetings 8thdaypriest,

8 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

So when do you think "heaven and earth will pass away"?  Where do you put that - time wise?

The present heavens and earth, figurative language for the present rulers of the Kingdoms of men and those ruled is soon to be replaced by the Kingdom of God, the new heavens and earth, where Christ and the resurrected believers will rule as King / Priests for the 1000 years upon the earth.

Isaiah 65:17–25 (KJV): 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. 24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

As far as the 7 vials, I believe we are in the midst of the 6th Vial, just before the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and before the battle of Armageddon.

Revelation 16:12–16 (KJV): 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Kind regards
Trevor

[JoeMo]

20 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

So when do you think "heaven and earth will pass away"?  Where do you put that - time wise?

Just my opinion, but I think that the present "heaven and earth" will pass away; and a new heaven and earth will be created after the 7th Millennium and sin and death are destroyed.  Sin will exist until just before the heavens and the earth are made new and "clean".

[JoeMo]

11 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Christ and the resurrected believers will rule as King / Priests for the 1000 years upon the earth.

AMEN!

[8thdaypriest]

9 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Just my opinion, but I think that the present "heaven and earth" will pass away; and a new heaven and earth will be created after the 7th Millennium and sin and death are destroyed.  Sin will exist until just before the heavens and the earth are made new and "clean".

So sometime during the 8th millennium, after the Gog/Magog Battle

[8thdaypriest]

23 hours ago, phkrause said:

I don't see any verse like that either, but I do see Rev 20  RSV (My Harper Study Bible)

This Section is called:  I. The binding of Satan

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain.

2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.

 

Rachel:  Satan is bound by Christ (the "fit man") at the start of the 7th millennium.

 

J. The millennial reign of Christ

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

Rachel:  The redeemed reign with Christ (doesn't say where) for 1000 years (could be on the earth).  The 24 Elders do say they "will reign on the earth" as "kings and priests".  One wonders why the need for priests, if no one else will ever come to Christ. 

 

K. The loosing of Satan

7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison

(also "the rest of the dead" will "live again")

8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

9 And they (the nations) marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were (were thrown at the SC), and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

L. The great white throne judgement

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.

 

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.

13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.

Those to be judged appear to be "dead".  I don't see a third resurrection mentioned.  The nations have already been "consumed".  They are already in Hades (the abode of the dead).

 

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;

 

Sheol (Hades) contains "the dead".  If Hades is thrown into the "lake of fire", all "the dead" are thrown in.  It's just a way of saying that all "the dead" (those not presently living) are thrown in to be permanently destroyed.  God's memory of them, the record of them - is destroyed.  If these persons are already dead - "consumed", then they are not conscious.

15 and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Question is:  Will any persons - resurrected after the 1000 years - come to know Christ and serve Him?   I believe YES.  Some will.  Most will not. 

[8thdaypriest]

Matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." (NIV)

Isaiah 34:4  "All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree." (NIV)

Hebrews 1:10  "And the heavens are the works of Thy hands; 11 They will perish, but Thou remainest; And they all will become old as a garment, 12 And as a mantle Thou wilt roll them up; As a garment they will also be changed." (NAS)

Revelation 21:1 "Then I saw 'a new heaven and a new earth,' for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea." (NIV)

Revelation 6:12 "And I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 14 And the sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come; and who is able to stand?" (NAS)

This is the Second Coming.  Right?  But it sounds just like Isaiah 34:4.  It looks like this earth and the heavens as presently known, will "pass away" at the Second Coming. 

So then the resurrection of "the rest of the dead" will happen after Christ as created "new heavens and new earth" ???

Or is this present earth simply restored ???

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

So sometime during the 8th millennium, after the Gog/Magog Battle

?

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

So then the resurrection of "the rest of the dead" will happen after Christ as created "new heavens and new earth" ???

Or is this present earth simply restored ???

My read of Rev. 20 and 21 (assuming it is chronological) says the rest of the dead are resurrected, they take sides, and those who choose satan are destroyed.  Then satan, sin, and death are thrown into the lake of fire, and sin reigns no more.  THEN God makes (not creates) a new heaven and earth.  I infer from this that God reforms and revives the universe using existing matter. I looked up Rev. 21:5 in every English translation; and every one uses the word "makes"; not one uses the word "creates".

[8thdaypriest]

21 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I looked up Rev. 21:5 in every English translation; and every one uses the word "makes"; not one uses the word "creates".

Good point.  I think it very possible Christ will heal and restore this planet.  But what about the "new heaven" ?  Different stars?  Or just different atmosphere around this planet? 

[8thdaypriest]

I think it makes more sense that this present earth will be completely devastated by the last plagues, leaving it uninhabited. 

On the DAY that Christ returns in glory:

1.  All the saved will be removed from this earth  (both resurrected and translated) to meet Christ in the air

2.  All the rebellious wicked will be resurrected to hear judgment pronounced against them  (raised to shame and everlasting contempt Dan 12:2-3)  The wicked will see the righteous ascend to meet Christ. 

3.  The Beast and the False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev 19:20)

4.  The 7 vial/bowl plagues will begin  ("Therefore shall her plagues come in one day"  Revelation 18:8).

5.  Babylon burns

6.  Satan (Scapegoat) and his angels will be bound in the "uninhabited place"  (This is DAY of Atonement fulfillment)

The DAY that Christ returns for His own, will be DAY of Atonement.   Jubilee began on the DAY of Atonement. 

Christ will BOTH go before the heavenly court to receive the kingdom, AND come forth from heaven to receive His waiting people - on the SAME DAY. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

I still think it more likely that the last plagues kill every living thing on this planet.  This planet remains the "uninhabited place" for the 7th millennium, with Satan and his angels imprisoned here. 

REASON:  The effects of the last plagues are too devastating to allow for survivors.

REASON:  During the 7th year, no sowing or reaping was to be done  - hence no sowing of the Gospel and no harvest of souls during the 7th millennium - because the earth is uninhabited. 

REASON:  In the TYPE, Aaron and sons were commanded to remain within the Tabernacle for 7 days, as part of their initial consecration.  They did not begin their ministry as priests until the 8th day.   

The "true Tabernacle" is "heaven itself".  Which would mean that those who are to become "priests of God and of Christ" must remain within the true Tabernacle, until "the 8th day".  With the LORD a thousand years is as a day.  The 8th "day" would be the 8th millennium. 

Leviticus 8:33 "And you shall not go outside the doorway of the tent of meeting for seven days, until the day that the period of your ordination is fulfilled; for he will ordain you through seven days." (NAS)

Most do not realize that Nadab and Abihu were killed by fire for their entry into the MHP, on the very day they - with their Father Aaron - began to minister as priests, the 8th day.  To me they were a TYPE of Satan, who sought a place he had not been appointed to. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

On 10/21/2019 at 5:27 PM, JoeMo said:

"Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." (Zech 14:3-5)

I think this could well be the LORD coming to fight against the army of Gog/Magog (during the 8th millennium).  He has come to fight against "the nations" attacking Jerusalem.   The Army of Gog thinks they have the righteous boxed in, but the LORD provides a way of escape, when He splits the Mount of Olives. 

[8thdaypriest]

Isaiah 13:13  “Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth will move out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts and in the day of His fierce anger.”

I think it possible that this planet will be knocked out of its present orbit at the second coming.  

 

[JoeMo]

22 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I think this could well be the LORD coming to fight against the army of Gog/Magog (during the 8th millennium).  He has come to fight against "the nations" attacking Jerusalem.   The Army of Gog thinks they have the righteous boxed in, but the LORD provides a way of escape, when He splits the Mount of Olives. 

IMHO, the Word has very little to say explicitly about the 8th Millennium and eternity.  About the only thing we know for sure is that we will forever be with the Lord in a New Heavens and New Earth; and there will be no more sin or death.  Other than that, we probably know less about the new creation than we do about the antediluvian world.  Many things that Rachel may apply to the 8th Millennium I still apply to the Second Coming and a Millennium here on earth.  I accept the 8th Day resurrection of the rest of the dead as a test or trial of sorts for those who never had the opportunity to make an informed decision concerning God and His Son because I can't see the fairness of it any other way. But I still believe the 7th  millennium be here on earth; and that Ezekiel's Temple will be the Throne of Jesus Christ here on earth; while the sanctified saints clean up the mess, bury the bodies, and evangelize the remnant left here on earth from the 7 Bowls of God's Wrath.  I even think it's possible that there will be some sort of training or discipline for those who did not complete the race (the sanctification process) talked about by Paul here on earth.

[stinsonmarri]

On 10/21/2019 at 2:32 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

John is seeing events as they are happening.  He has been carried into the future.  The text does not say, "those who will have the victory" - in any translation. 

Rachel: At first, I was trying to understand what you were disagreeing about. What I want to know it who said "those who will have the victory," you didn't quote anyone that made that statement. Now the Bible stated:

"...those who had come off victorious from the beast and from his image," (NAS) Now, that is the version you quoted.

"...them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image," (KJV) This the version I quoted along with yours. Yes, John did see in the future, and he also quoted what had already taken place; which was in the past as well by that time. In other words, the 144,000, were the ones he saw and also could relate how they became victorious. So he saw the future past!

You also stated:

"I think the argument CAN be made, that the saved will be standing before the throne in Heaven,JUST BEFORE the last plagues are poured out.  Why?  Because the sealed are NOT MENTIONED during the 7 bowl plagues.  They ARE MENTIONED during the trumpet plagues. 

It is not an argument, to me maybe to you! To me is to prove or to present the truth. The 144,000 were sealed first in Revelation 7:1-8. Then the Bibles talks about a great multitude that no man could number in Rev 7:9-12; but there is more. On of the elders asked; John who these people from every nation that were array in White Robes were, and where did they come from.

 One of the elders asked me, "Who are these people dressed in white robes, and where do they come from?" Rev 7:13 GNB

I selected a more modern version so you would not think, I just made it up! John didn't know and he told the elder he knew.

The elder gave three evidences of where they came from:

1. great tribulation,

2. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more,

3. neither sun nor any scorching heat will burn them.

So the Seven Trumpets are the great tribulation and the fifth angel who blew his trumpet a star [an angel] with a key ( I know you know stars are symbolic of angels! The proof is instead of star it said angel with the key in Rev 20:1), unlock the bottomless pit! What was release was told by THE MOST HIGH, "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal," of YAHWEH! In Rev Chapter 8 the sun and the moon was hit, also the drinking water was infected. During that time the GM felt thirst and hunger before they were sealed. In Rev 16:8 it stated that all flesh during that time felt "the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire." Now that's what the Bible said and not me, I presented it!

Finally, you stated: NOTE:  Mrs White says the saints will be on earth during the 7 last plagues.  She also says "these plagues are not universal".  Now which plagues might those be?  Answer:  the trumpet plagues.  (NOTE:  I do not personally believe in her "gift of prophecy".)  Those who want to support her writings argue for the bowl plagues before Christ appears."

Let me say this kindly, we do not have to argue, about anything, we stand on her gift as a messenger. She had dreams as Act 2:14-17 stated, would take place on sons and daughters also, older people as well. I believe in the Spiritual gifts as they are recorded in the Bible. EGW was correct the saints will be on the earth when both the Trumpets and plagues are poured out! Noone has to argue what the Bible says. People can choose to believe or not they have that right. I feel enough should be said by a woman who cannot speak for herself. Do not say she have a gift or not!  My Bible makes it very clear all of HIS people will have one of THE GIFTS of THE HOLY SPIRIT which includes you and I if we follow what the Bible says! The main gift is love for THE MOST HIGH, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT; this also includes our neighbors. EGW is our neighbor and she is asleep and I feel, she lived, up and obeyed to all she knew. I do not know, but only feel in my heart, she will be saved!

I do not agree with everything she wrote and she said; if something once believed to be believed as the truth and you find it to be in error, stand for the truth. I stand in truth for all of her visions because you will find them in the Bible. But many other things that was written they all believed at that time were not correct. Just, like they found the Sabbath and to keep all YAHWEH's Commandments; today others will find other truth that she did not understand that the Bible itself will reveal!

Blessings! If you see any mistakes let me know! Happy Sabbath!