Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 4, 2006 Members Posted July 4, 2006 I'm confused. (I know...everyone's doing this: []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_rolleyes.gif[/] ) Since Jesus was human as well as God, then wouldn't the human part need to be created? But if He was created, then He wasn't always I AM. Except He *had* to be because He says He was. []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/] Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Robert Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Heb 10: 5 Therefore, when He [Jesus] came into the world [i.e., through the incarnation], He says, “Sacrifice and offering Thou hast not desired, But a body Thou hast prepared for Me.... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word [Jesus as God], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. verse 14 And the Word [Jesus as God] became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jesus was never a created being. He is 1/3 of the Trinity. He is God. The humanity that Christ took into himself was created from Mary's womb. Like the Author of Hebrews says, "a body Thou hast prepared for Me...." Hope that helps, Rob Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 5, 2006 Author Members Posted July 5, 2006 So....the *body* of Jesus was created, but not the part of him that makes Him God? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
melvin mccarty Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 Created in the same sense and in the same way that our children are created. No mystery. mel Quote
Robert Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> rudywoofs said: So....the *body* of Jesus was created, but not the part of him that makes Him God? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> The divinity of Christ has no beginning and no ending. He was never created; He will never die. That's Christ as God. The body that was created for Christ's Divinity to dwell in was our human life. That life came from Mary's womb and it was created for Christ, but it wasn't Christ as God. Jesus didn't change Himself into a human, but instead He remained Himself while dwelling within our human life. It's deep, but try to think of it another way. When you became converted the Holy Spirit, who is God, came and resided in you. I know that seems strange, but the Bible teaches it. Did you become the Holy Spirit? No. Did the Holy Spirit become you? No. So the Holy Spirit wasn't changed when He entered into your human life. He remained Himself (God), yet He entered your life. Rob Quote
Robert Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> melvin mccarty said: Created in the same sense and in the same way that our children are created. No mystery. mel <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes and no.... The humanity was the same, but Christ as man was conceived or born "spiritually alive". This means that from the moment of conception the humanity that Christ entered never sinned. This wasn't true with us for we were born spiritually dead. We were born without God in us. Hence was were born sinful (as David says in Ps 51:5) <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/focus.gif" alt="" /> Quote
Robert Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Robert said:Hence was were born sinful (as David says in Ps 51:5) <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Correction: Hence we were born sinful (as David says in Ps 51:5) Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 5, 2006 Author Members Posted July 5, 2006 I always thought there was a little bit of God in everyone... made in His image... and that was why you should always treat people with respect - not because of anything inherent in their nature, but because of the inter-relationship between God and people.. But maybe I'm way off base. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
aldona Posted July 5, 2006 Posted July 5, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> rudywoofs said: I always thought there was a little bit of God in everyone... made in His image... and that was why you should always treat people with respect - not because of anything inherent in their nature, but because of the inter-relationship between God and people.. But maybe I'm way off base. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I don't think you're off base...I'm with you on this one. Our Quaker friends describe it as everybody having "that of God" within them, and our job as we relate to others (including our enemies) is to look for it, find it and help to bring it out and cultivate it. aldona Quote www.asrc.org.au (Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Melbourne)Helping over 2000 refugees & asylum seekers each monthIMSLP/Petrucci Music LibraryThe Public Domain Music Score Library - Free Sheet Music DownloadsLooking for classical sheet music? Try IMSLP first!
Robert Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> rudywoofs said: I always thought there was a little bit of God in everyone... made in His image... <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Before the fall: Gen 1:27 "And God created man [i.e., mankind] in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. After the fall: Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years [after the fall], and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth. 2:1 And you were dead [spiritually speaking] in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spiritual. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’ Gal 4:3 So also, when we were children, we were in slavery [bondage] under the basic principles of the world. John 8:34 Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. EGW: Through sin the whole human organism is deranged, the mind is perverted, the imagination corrupted. Sin has degraded the faculties of the soul. Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil. [MAR 91] We are from birth void of God's spirit. Hence we are born spiritually dead. At the proper time the Spirit begins to impress the mind. When received we become "born again", which simply means now our mind/heart is being renewed, but that's after conversion. Rob Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 6, 2006 Author Members Posted July 6, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> We are from birth void of God's spirit. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I don't buy that. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm still a heathen. I'm sorry, but I would not want to serve a God who would shake the dust from His feet in front of a newborn who has barely had a chance to let out a whimper. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Robert Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> rudywoofs said:...I would not want to serve a God who would shake the dust from His feet in front of a newborn who has barely had a chance to let out a whimper. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Who said God did this? I didn't! Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 6, 2006 Author Members Posted July 6, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Robert said: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> rudywoofs said:...I would not want to serve a God who would shake the dust from His feet in front of a newborn who has barely had a chance to let out a whimper. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Who said God did this? I didn't! <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> No one said God did this. It is the mental image I get of God when someone says that God's spirit (or a *part* of God) is not in anyone at birth. I would not want to serve a God who could somehow create a person but then from the very get-go withhold Himself from that person....until that person has said the *right* thing - and then, but ONLY then, would there be a flicker of God in that person. That seems uncomfortably like a summoning to me. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Robert Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 You can thank Adam for our predicament, not God. God must be invited, otherwise we have a God who forces Himself on us. As you say, I could not worship such a God. Rob Quote
bevin Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 This is an area where saying the right words gets you club membership, saying the wrong ones gets you kicked out, and nobody can actually say what the words mean with enough precision to be useful. Before asking "Did God create some part of Jesus", let us try for something much more concrete and simple. Let us try to decide "Who created my fingernails?" /Bevin Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 6, 2006 Author Members Posted July 6, 2006 I guess I'm going to be kicked out. Was Jesus a DIRECT descendent of David, or was He not? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
bevin Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Was Jesus a DIRECT descendent of David, or was He not? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Culturally or genetically? Is the child of a daughter a direct descendent of her father? There are societies where you can be a direct descendent of a male who has not been within 100 miles of the mother for 4 years preceding your birth! We are very scientific and genetic about this, other societies it is enough for the parent to acknowledge the child. /Bevin Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 6, 2006 Author Members Posted July 6, 2006 ::sigh:: genetically, a bloodline lineage, is what I was referring to - based on what is written in the Bible. But, since there is no way to do a genetic testing survey on Jesus, I guess the whole topic is moot. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Robert Posted July 6, 2006 Posted July 6, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> rudywoofs said: Was Jesus a DIRECT descendent of David, or was He not? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Rom 1:3 concerning his Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh... 2 Tim 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, of the seed of David, according to my gospel..... Yes, according to the Bible. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted July 8, 2006 Posted July 8, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> aldona said: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> rudywoofs said: I always thought there was a little bit of God in everyone... made in His image... and that was why you should always treat people with respect - not because of anything inherent in their nature, but because of the inter-relationship between God and people.. But maybe I'm way off base. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I don't think you're off base...I'm with you on this one. Our Quaker friends describe it as everybody having "that of God" within them, and our job as we relate to others (including our enemies) is to look for it, find it and help to bring it out and cultivate it. aldona <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"red"] "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing..." [/]Romans 7:18 KJV [:"red"] " Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ." [/] Ephesians 2:11-13 NASB [:"red"] "For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him." [/] Romans 5:7-9 NASB <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" /> Blessings!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Aliensanctuary Posted July 9, 2006 Posted July 9, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> "I always thought there was a little bit of God in everyone... made in His image... and that was why you should always treat people with respect - not because of anything inherent in their nature, but because of the inter-relationship between God and people.. But maybe I'm way off base." Heathen Pam, Ex-Club Member <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> If God knows what we need before we even ask him, we must in some way be "bugged". What if, in our DNA, is a program creating a "spirit", a sort of communication interface with God and his Messengers. This spirit records our every thought and word, and we can do nothing to alter it. When a person dies, even newborns, their spirit then returns to the Land of God for storage until Court Convenes and the Judgment Begins. I hope there will be a lot of babies in the Kingdom of God. Babies can bring out the best in us. If Jesus also had a spirit within his first body, even though this body was destroyed when his spirit was inserted into a tiny human embryo, he was still Jesus, but in a human body. His DNA could very well have come from both Joseph and Mary, but not in the usual manner through intercourse. We might think, "artificial insemination", but on a level beyond our current laboratory technology. What a great honor, holding a baby possessing the memories of the Son of God. The Kingdom of God is so amazing. Too bad religion blinds us and we get the wrong ideas about it. We all need to stop being heathens and join the Ultimate Club. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 9, 2006 Author Members Posted July 9, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Aliensanctuary said: Heathen Pam, Ex-Club Member <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Robert Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Aliensanctuary said: When a person dies, even newborns, their spirit then returns to the Land of God for storage until Court Convenes and the Judgment Begins. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Heresy! You need to understand that the Bible is full of metaphors. Quote
melvin mccarty Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 Robert I wonder who gets to decide exactly which passages are metaphors and which are not. What is your insight on that? When there is a plain statement that the spirit returns to God why do we need to wish it away? mel Quote
Parade Orange Posted July 10, 2006 Posted July 10, 2006 AlienSanctuary Hi! what u have said bears some investigating. Can u share more? It may not be fleshed out completely like that to many here but it does sound like you are onto something. I love it when we can bring the scriptures to frame it. God Bless Gay4JESUS Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
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