Did God create Jesus?

July 16, 2006

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rudywoofs said:

Geez...that all really makes me feel special. God really didn't create me...I'm not made in His image...I was just a seed within a seed within a seed within a seed, ad infinitum.

just a domino of sin... great..

yep. really special..

Would you rather make God responsible for making sinners?

God created your life "in Adam" in His image after His likeness. It is Adam that fell and since your life resided in him your substance fell too.

Romans 5:18 "... through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

Adam's one sin ruined the human race within him. This life he passed on to you and me. The good news is, however, that Christ's one act of righteousness "resulted" in the justification of life to all men. We need to accept this by faith.

Rob

July 16, 2006

I guess I prefer to look at people as *people*...not sinners, not saints.

I prefer to look at God as the Creator of my life and soul and that of everyone else's.

I do not believe God was the creator of sin. I don't know that sin CAN be created. Sin, to me, is only a word that defines certain actions and attitudes that separate a person from God. Perhaps I am dead wrong.. []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

July 16, 2006

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rudywoofs said: I prefer to look at God as the Creator of my life and soul and that of everyone else's.

He did create you, but "in Adam". Let's look at Gen 2:1-2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

The 7th day symbolized not 1 day off, but a perpetual Sabbath. God didn't start creating again the first Sunday after creation. Why? His work was perfect it was complete. Nothing needed to be added.

Today the Sabbath of creation no longer points to God's perfect creation. Why? Because it has been ruined by the fall. Hence God's perfect work of redemption "in Christ Jesus" the 2nd Adam.

Here's the reality of things after the fall:

Romans 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

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Sin, to me, is only a word that defines certain actions and attitudes that separate a person from God. Perhaps I am dead wrong....

The essence of all sin is "self". There are a number of ways to look at this. Essentially sin is self-seeking, pride, and selfishness. All outward sins are motivated by these inward principles.

July 21, 2006

Robert did you read what I wrote? Did I say anything of me is righteous? Righteous and wicked and in between are all preserved in some way of course. I will repeat for you. All that makes you an individual is preserved when you die. I didn't say that meant you will be aware or alive. There is no reason to insist that the "spirit" is the breath. The life principal is not the breath. I'm only suggesting that a liberal dose of common sense would help to clarify the doctrine.

mel

July 21, 2006

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rudywoofs said:

I'm confused. (I know...everyone's doing this: []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_rolleyes.gif[/] )

Since Jesus was human as well as God, then wouldn't the human part need to be created? But if He was created, then He wasn't always I AM. Except He *had* to be because He says He was. []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

Hey Pam. I have been away for a while. How you goin? Trinty is a very difficult teaching as it is man trying to understand, even explain God. Like a fish trying to explain a man. He gets in the water, swims around, but doesn't belong there. How can a fish understand breathing, walking, picking fruit off a tree and sleeping in a bed? How can man understand God, the Universe which He created, the Son whom he sent to do a job? How can man understand the Holy Spirit when he can't even see Him. We want to understand things (science) so that we can control them. We will never understand or control God and we need to accept out position. We must have faith. The Bible says Jesus was human (mother) and God (father). I don't understand it and thats OK. Jesus, as man is now in Heaven working for me to save my sorry soul. Thank you Lord <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/luxhello.gif" alt="" /> This is what righteousness by faith is all about. I have to just believe. Paul says it is a mystery and it is. I love your questions! They make me clarify my own understanding of things. Well done. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

July 21, 2006

Rudywoofs said:

"I'm confused. (I know...everyone's doing this: )

Since Jesus was human as well as God, then wouldn't the human part need to be created?"

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Everyday said:

"The Bible says Jesus was human (mother) and God (father)."

=======================================================

Was Jesus Human the Son or the Son of Human, was He God the Son or the Son of God? Was Mary a biological or a surrogate mother of Jesus?

July 21, 2006

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everyday said:

Trinity is a very difficult teaching as it is man trying to understand, even explain God.

[:"red"] "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?

It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?" [/] Job 11:7,8 KJV

[:"red"] "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" [/] John 14:9 KJV

July 21, 2006

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law [i.e., under its curse]

2 Cor 5:21 "He [God] made him to be sin who knew no sin...."

As God, Jesus knew no sin, but as man He was "made" sin. Why? Because the humanity He assumed came from Mary's womb.

Job 15:14 “What is man, that he should be pure, Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Since the humanity He asumed is our humanity we can say with Paul, "One died for all, therefore all died...." [2 Cor 5:14]

July 22, 2006

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yongttay said:

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wouldn't the human part need to be created?"

======================================================

Seems that is what the Word says.

[:"red"] "Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says," SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME..." [/] Hebrews 10:5 NASB

Emph theirs LHC

July 22, 2006

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melvin mccarty said: I will repeat for you. All that makes you an individual is preserved when you die.

Great....Since I am a sinner my sinfulness will be reserved for me.

July 22, 2006

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LifeHiscost said:"Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says," SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME..." [/] Hebrews 10:5 NASB

From where was this life...this body formed? Mary's womb!

Romans 1:1 ...concerning his Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh [Greek: Sarx]

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren....

July 22, 2006

Aren't there aspects of a person that have nothing to do with *sinfulness*?

If everything that makes a person an individual is SIN then, WHOA, Let me off the train! Whatever happened to "Blessed are the pure in heart?" "Blessed are the meek?" "Blessed are the merciful?" "Blessed are the peacemakers?" If no one has those characteristics, then why on earth did Jesus bother to say it? Just giving a list of heavenly attributes that have nothing to do with humans?? A beatitudinal pie in the sky? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

July 22, 2006

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"Blessed are the pure in heart?" "Blessed are the meek?" "Blessed are the merciful?" "Blessed are the peacemakers?"

These are the some of the qualities needed to join the Kingdom of God. Unfortunately, we've programmed our brains to think and act in certain ways, and only with great difficulty can we reprogram to include those behaviors we lack.

Those who possess one or more of these qualities may have a special niche in the future life, positions in which these attributes are extremely beneficial.

Meekness, peacemaking, pureness, mercy, etc., may be found even in those who don't attend church. Jesus is looking for people who can get along, since everyone joining his Kingdom will be stuck with each other forever.

July 22, 2006

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yongttay said:

Rudywoofs said:

"I'm confused. (I know...everyone's doing this: )

Since Jesus was human as well as God, then wouldn't the human part need to be created?"

======================================================

Everyday said:

"The Bible says Jesus was human (mother) and God (father)."

=======================================================

Was Jesus Human the Son or the Son of Human, was He God the Son or the Son of God? Was Mary a biological or a surrogate mother of Jesus?

Jesus's humanity (that is, his human body) was of course made in Mary's womb the same as your and my body were made in our mother's womb. Mary was a biological mother-- that is, Jesus inherited her human DNA. How can I be sure of this? Well, the Bible plainly establishes that Jesus "as to his human nature was a descendent of David" (Romans 1:3). This could not be true if Mary was merely a surrogate mother. To make sure we get the point, the Bible goes into great detail about Jesus' ancestors in Matthew 1. To understand why Jesus came to live among us with human DNA, study carefully Hebrews 2: 9-18; 5:2,7,9; Romans 8: 3,4; and Phil. 2: 7,8. The latter verses show that Jesus Christ was "the God-Man," truly God and truly human.

July 22, 2006

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rudywoofs said:

If everything that makes a person an individual is SIN then, WHOA, Let me off the train! Whatever happened to "Blessed are the pure in heart?" "Blessed are the meek?" "Blessed are the merciful?" "Blessed are the peacemakers?" If no one has those characteristics, then why on earth did Jesus bother to say it? Just giving a list of heavenly attributes that have nothing to do with humans?? A beatitudinal pie in the sky? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes some people find it hard to accept the obvious when spoken by Jesus. Who would have ever thought that Jesus would take a horrible way to die, and make it the cornerstone of our salvation.

We, the human race, are so fragmented by our association with the sinfulness of mankind, only a decided miracle of the Holy Spirit's intervention into our lives makes us capable of understanding the miracle of the new birth that paves the way for the reality of the beatitudes.

[:"red"] "For all of us have become like one who is unclean,

And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;

And all of us wither like a leaf,

And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." [/] Isaiah 64:6 NASB

[:"red"] "Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'" [/] John 3:3 YLT

Good behavior appears to be ours, but the heart reveals whether they are ordered by/of the Lord.

[:"red"] "...so that, just as it is written, " LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

" [/] 1 Corinthians 1:31 NASB

[:"red"] "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith" [/]

Gal 5:22

Yes, you can receive of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is only necessary to ask.

[:"red"] " ...for every one who is asking doth receive, and he who is seeking doth find, and to him who is knocking it shall be opened." [/] Matthew 7:8 YLT

[:"red"] "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." [/] Luke 12:32 KJV

Keep looking up!!

July 24, 2006

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John317 said:

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yongttay said:

Rudywoofs said:

"I'm confused. (I know...everyone's doing this: )

Since Jesus was human as well as God, then wouldn't the human part need to be created?"

======================================================

Everyday said:

"The Bible says Jesus was human (mother) and God (father)."

=======================================================

Was Jesus Human the Son or the Son of Human, was He God the Son or the Son of God? Was Mary a biological or a surrogate mother of Jesus?

Jesus's humanity (that is, his human body) was of course made in Mary's womb the same as your and my body were made in our mother's womb. Mary was a biological mother-- that is, Jesus inherited her human DNA. How can I be sure of this? Well, the Bible plainly establishes that Jesus "as to his human nature was a descendent of David" (Romans 1:3). This could not be true if Mary was merely a surrogate mother. To make sure we get the point, the Bible goes into great detail about Jesus' ancestors in Matthew 1. To understand why Jesus came to live among us with human DNA, study carefully Hebrews 2: 9-18; 5:2,7,9; Romans 8: 3,4; and Phil. 2: 7,8. The latter verses show that Jesus Christ was "the God-Man," truly God and truly human.

Jesus Humanity was as important to us as His Divinity (His God bits). To be the messiah according to prophecy He had to be of the seed of David and Abraham, literally, physically. And He was through Mary. Jesus was like a person with two cultures, like an African person living in OZ. Only the differences are totally different. He new Heaven perfectly, and He grew up on Earth knowing man as well as any man. He was sexually mature, knew finance and culture, languages, and a physical body with all of it's limitations and pains and emotions.

He was different to us, for sure, but He also knows what it is like to be truely human, like my African person who lives half of their life in Africa and half in OZ. They learn the language, the finance, the culture etc., but they don't forget where they came from and who they are.

We need to accept that Jesus was and is and always will be different. But that does not mean He did not feel everything we feel while He was here. No-one can say to Jesus, "You would never understand", as He has been there, poor, suffering, greive, anger, and joy. He knows what it means to forgive and that is what we need to know. Grace.

July 24, 2006

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rudywoofs said:

Aren't there aspects of a person that have nothing to do with *sinfulness*?

If everything that makes a person an individual is SIN then, WHOA, Let me off the train! Whatever happened to "Blessed are the pure in heart?" "Blessed are the meek?" "Blessed are the merciful?" "Blessed are the peacemakers?" If no one has those characteristics, then why on earth did Jesus bother to say it? Just giving a list of heavenly attributes that have nothing to do with humans?? A beatitudinal pie in the sky? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Pam I am not sure what you are looking for. I see good in you, and I know you can be bad. Paul says sin lies in waitin to catch us. Paul actually sets sin apart from self like a thing living inside a believer that constantly tries to catch them out and make them feel guilty. (Rom 6,7) Rom 7:17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. For the believer it seems that sin takes on a life of it's own and we can stand outside of oursevles and see sin at work. This way we can with the Holy Spirit address it.

July 24, 2006

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rudywoofs said:Aren't there aspects of a person that have nothing to do with *sinfulness*?

No, all you can do is sin! Now as you learn to "walk in the Spirit" a change will be seen "in you", but it's not you for it is Christ!

Proof:

Gal 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me.

21 “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

So it's not you, but Christ working through you. All that we can produce is sin and self-righteousness.

July 28, 2006

rudywoofs asked:

Did God create Jesus?

Yes. When Adam was created, Jesus was created in him. If God did not created Adam, Jesus would not have been born, Mary would not have been born, you and I would not have been born. There would be no human race. Jesus was born to undo the damage that Adam had done to the human race.

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