Human Suffering Ethics and Questions

[John317]

Originally Posted By: gina i

The ruler of the earth is the devil. God is in control of the earth.

That's a direct contradiction!

The Bible actually teaches both, that Satan is the god of this world and that he rules his evil empire here, but it also teaches that God is in ultimate control. That is, God has allowed Satan to rule within limits for a certain period of time. As in the story of Job, God will only allow Satan to go so far and then God will step in and say no more. In the meantime, God does interfere at times in the affairs of this world, as He did during the time of Christ, when God gave power to Christ to perform signs, or miracles. Afterward God worked through the apostles to do other miracles. Today God still is a God of miracles. That is why we pray, because we believe Jesus' words that God responds to our petitions.

My father, Vaughn Allen, was healed in the Loma Linda University Medical Center through anointing and prayer. His doctor, Dr. Thompson, was about to perform exploratory surgery because my father was running a temperature and had evidence of severe infection after undergoing an appendectomy. His appendix had ruptured on the operating table and they had given him massive amounts of antibiotics. So before performing another operation, my father, an associate pastor at the Highland SDA church, requested that the Sr. pastor there as well as members who had faith would come and anoint him and pray for healing. Only a few hours beforehand a blood test had revealed a high white blood count and for several days he had also had a continuously high fever. The surgeon was there when about a dozen Bible-believing Seventh-day Adventists came with their pastor into the hospital room. My father was anointed and the pastor and a few others prayed that God would heal him. Shortly after the last prayer was offered, my father was taken back down to the laboratory where another blood test was administered. Both his blood count and his fever were determined to be normal. Dr. Thompson was able to cancel the surgery. James 5:14 is not a lie but God's truth.

Before Jesus returns there will be many such miracles, and even many, far greater ones. Do you believe that?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

That's a direct contradiction!

God has allowed Satan to rule within limits for a certain period of time. As in the story of Job' date=' God will only allow Satan to go so far and then God will step in and say no more. [/quote']

"Allow" in what sense? Is God and the devil in copartnership? The story of Job is written like a play. In someway it is like a parable trying to get a point across. Do you really believe that a conversation went on in the exact way Job chapter one presents it? Let's look:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”

Okay, what kind of question and answer is that? Then out of the blue the Lord just brings up Job:

8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 “Hast Thou not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

Odd coversation (like a play), but from this we see that God and Job had a personal relationship. Since God was in his life Job naturally had protection and other blessings.

11 [satan to God] “But put forth Thy hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse Thee to Thy face.”

12 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.

Two things:

1] Satan doesn't say, "stay thy hand" as in remove your protection. No, he says you touch him. And in verse 16 we see God getting the blame as if He did it: "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them...."

2] God, as you say, "allowed" Satan limited access to Job. How? He partially removed Himself from Job's life. The hell that ensued was the result of God retreating. That's how you should define "allowed".

So it is not like God is working with the devil. It's more like because God is rejected He removes Himself either partially or fully from the scene. Is there a Biblical example? Yes:

Numbers 12:9 So the anger of the Lord burned against them and He departed. 10 But when the cloud had withdrawn from over the tent, behold, Miriam became leprous, as white as snow.

Did God do it? No, He temporarily removed Himself from Miriam's life. Apparently God was protecting her from this disease. Disease comes either directly or indirectly from Satan.

So instead of saying "allowed" it more like if you have God in your life you have certain blessings and protection, but if you insist that God should take a hike and get out of your life those goodies go with Him. So it is a passive act rather then an active one.

The lesson? Keep God in your life....The lesson Job learned is not to get self-righteous with God. Job had a somewhat limited problem as the Jews did fully. Its called legalism! Only in the case of the Jews they were annihilated by the Romans in 70AD. God completely retreated because His Son was fully rejected. God being love couldn't force Himself on them.

Robert

[Robert]

The lesson? Keep God in your life....The lesson Job learned is not to get self-righteous with God. Job had a somewhat limited problem as the Jews did fully. Its called legalism! Only in the case of the Jews they were annihilated by the Romans in 70AD. God completely retreated because His Son was fully rejected. God being love couldn't force Himself on them.

Matt 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house [your city/your temple] is left to you desolate. [Why? Because you are rejecting me!]

[Robert]

The lesson Job learned is not to get self-righteous with God. Job had a somewhat limited problem as the Jews did fully. Its called legalism!

By Jack Sequeira:

...Let’s look at another case study of repentance from self-righteousness. This one may create a bit of a problem in your mind, because I want to give a nontraditional interpretation to a familiar person in the Bible. Let’s look at the story of a man who appears in the oldest book of the Bible – the book of Job.

I’ve wrestled with the book of Job for a long time. I could never see why God allowed Satan to mistreat Job so badly and why Job had to go through all those terrible crises without any purpose other than to prove to Satan that God was right. To me, that didn’t seem to be enough; the whole story somehow didn’t seem to fit with what I knew of God’s character. Then one day I was reading The Desire of Ages, and I came across these words: “The history of Job had shown that suffering is inflicted by Satan, and is overruled by God for purposes of mercy” (471). But Ellen White didn’t say exactly what that merciful purpose was in Job’s case. The only way I could find out was to read and study and wrestle with the book of Job for myself.

When I began studying the book closely, I discovered that Job himself had a problem. At first, it was hard to accept what I was learning, because it completely contradicted what I had always understood about Job. I had always had the picture that we get from the very first verse of the book. It say that Job, “was blameless and upright, and one who feared god and shunned evil" (Job 1:1, NKJV). This description of Job is repeated in verse 8 when God is having a dialogue with Satan. “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears god and shuns evil?” (NKJV)

And Satan replies, “Yes, but he does all this because You have built a hedge around him. Remove Your protection, and give him into my hands. You’ll see what he will do then. He will deny You and reject You. He will turn his back on You” (se verses 9-11).

So God said, “You can have him. Everything he possesses is in your power, but you can’t touch his body. You can’t kill him.” Immediately, Satan set out to destroy everything Job had – including his children (see verses 13-19). How would you react after losing your children and everything you owned? Job “tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshipped”. And he said, “naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave and the lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the lord.” (Verses 20,21, NKJV).

Job didn’t turn his back on God. He was righteous person. But this is the crucial question: Was his righteousness the righteousness of faith, or was it the righteousness of works? We need to look closely at his experience in order to determine the answer to this question, because I believe we will find in Job’s story similarities to your own situation as Laodicea.

In chapter 2, God and Satan have a second conversation regarding Job. Satan says to God, “All right, Job hasn’t rejected You yet. But let me touch him – not just his possessions or his children. Let me get his own body in my hands, he will deny You then!” And God replied, “Go ahead. He is in you hands, but you can’t kill him.”

Satan caused Job to break out in terrible boils from head to foot. At this point, Job’s wife had had enough. “Do you still hold to YOUR integrity?” she asked. “’Curse God and die!’” (Job 2:9, NKJV, emphasis supplied). But Job didn’t listen. “In all this Job did not sin with his lips” (verse 10, NKJV).

Three new characters enter the story, the so-called friends of Job – Eliphaz, Bidad, and Zophar. The arguments of these “comforters” are typical of the Eastern mentality regarding human suffering. All through the book, they are arguing that Job’s intense sufferings are the result of some secret sin in his life. “You wouldn’t be in the condition, Job, if there wasn’t something wrong in your spiritual life. God wouldn’t be punishing you like this otherwise.”

Does God punish us like that? Does He cause us to suffer physically for our sins? No. We need to remember that the arguments of Job’s friends are based oh human reasoning, not biblical truth. That is why God rebukes them in the end. They were misrepresenting His character. But the important element in this story is Job’s reaction to all this. He doesn’t reject their reasoning regarding punishment for sin, but instead he defends his righteousness. That is why Job is so puzzled. Like his friends, he, too, believes that the wicked will suffer and the righteous prospers in this life. Yet he is suffering in spite of being righteous! That is what Job cannot understand.

“Teach me, and I will hold my tongue, cause me to understand where in I have erred.’”…He defends his righteousness before his friends. He is saying, “Where have I gone wrong” Show me what sin you are accusing me of. I am blameless, even though I am suffering.”

By the time we reach chapter 10, Job is defending his righteousness to God Himself. “I will say to God, ‘Do not condemn me; show me why You contend with me….You know that I am not wicked.’” Actually, Job is quite confident that his righteousness is perfect. “God,” Job says, “these friends of mine are accusing me of some secret sin. Show me where I am wrong. I would really like to know what my sin is.” Of course, Job was convinced of his righteousness; he didn’t think he was guilty of sin.

Was there some secrete sin in Job’s life that was the cause of his suffering? No. But did Job have a problem? Yes.

Job continues to insist on his own righteousness and to defend himself against the accusations of his friends. They keep saying, “Job, you must have some secret sin in your life; look how you’re suffering.”

And Job argues back, “No, I have not sinned. I have kept God’s commandments; I have held to my integrity.” Notice what he says in chapter 23. “My foot has held fast to His steps; I have kept His way and not turned aside. I have not departed from the commandment of His lips; I have treasured the words of His mouth more than my necessary food’” (verses 11,12 NKJV)

Does this sound like a man who has been justified by faith? Or does it sound like a man who is confident of his own righteousness, who is self-righteous?

By chapter 31, Job is strongly defending his own righteousness. He calls upon God to judge him. ”Let me be weighed in a just balance, that God may know my integrity.” (Verse 9, NKJV). He goes onto list the good works he has habitually done – fed the hungry, clothed the naked, cared for orphans and widows, and opened his home to the homeless. This chapter is Job's final argument against the accusations of his three friends. “So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1, NKJV).

This was Job’s problem – he was righteous in his own eyes. He was sincere; he was honest. But he had a problem he didn’t recognize. The book of Job is a historical account of God’s first lesson on righteousness by faith. Let’s see how this is so.

[color:"red"]After Job’s three friends quite arguing with him, a fourth man steps in – Elihu. He asks Job, ”Do you think this is right? Do you say, My righteousness is more than God’s?” (Job 35:2, NKJV) Elihu has put his finger on an important point. He isn’t trying to convince Job that his problem is sin, as did the other three friends. He is trying to convince Job that his problem is self-righteousness. And he continues this argument until chapter 38, when God steps in at last to settle the matter.

If you read from chapter 38 to the end of the book, you’ll find that God rebukes Job’s three friends for their mistaken theology. They argued, “Job, you must be a sinner. The fact that you are suffering is proof of sin in your life because God punishes those who do bad things.”….

But God also rebukes Job. “Who is this who darkens counsel by words ("I am blameless") without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.” (Job 38:2,3, NKJV). God rebukes Job for his self-righteous attitude.

And notice that Job repents. ”Then Job answered the Lord and said: Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.” (Job 40:3,4, NKJV) God’s words silenced Job’s pretensions to righteousness. Job’s problem was self-righteousness. His attitude was that of the rich young ruler who came to Jesus saying, “All these things have I kept form my youth up” (Matt 19:20). Job was so focused all the good things he did and the lack of sinful things in his life the he couldn’t recognize the source of his righteousness was self rather than God. But when he came face to face with God, he admitted, “I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know…. Therefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42:3,6, NKJV)

What was it that Job had not understood? He had not understood that his self-righteousness was mere filthy rags in God' sight. But when he came face to face with his self-righteous condition, he abhorred himself and repented....

Repentance from self-righteousness is terribly painful because we have to swallow our pride - our spiritual pride. The things we have looked to as evidences of our goodness, we have to see as monuments to self......

God didn't enjoy putting Job through this crisis, but Job had a lesson to learn, and this drastic method was the only way to teach him. When the lesson was complete and Job was fully converted, God was able to bless him....He restored his health, his possessions and his children.