Am I stupid?

[lazarus]

I've been so angered by all the mindless anti-muslim feeling that I perceive on the radio, TV, forums etc I plan to buy one of those "don't hate me because I'm a muslim" Tshirts and wear it next summer. I'm flying to the UK next summer and I plan to wear it on the plane.

Am I stupid? My wife thinks I am.

WWBD?

(what would Bonhoffer do)

[Gail]

It's your funeral! I hope you remember to put this situation in the Prayer forum.

What an interesting experiment!

[Stan]

Muslim means one who worships God.

Makes me a Muslim.....

[Gerr]

And get another T-shirt too for when you go to Islamic countries. Have this printed on it, "Don't shoot me or blow me up because I'm Christian."

Gerry

[Gerr]

If you worship Christ, you are a polytheist according to Muslims.

Gerry

[lazarus]

Hey Gerry thats a good idea! I friend who is pastoring in Kuwait!

[D. Allan]

I think Bonhoffer learned his lesson. WWBD - what would Buddha do?

[Pockey]

Don't do it brother. You're not stupid, but somebody stupid might do something stupid.

Remember that kid that was tasered at UCLA? All his protesting about rights just got his bum handed to him. All I'm saying is that there are people just waiting for an excuse to do something bad.

[Amelia]

My bet would be you wouldn't be let on the plane.

[lazarus]

I think Bonhoffer learned his lesson.

Surely you jest!

(as eugene from Adventures in Odessy would say)

[John317]

Muslim means one who worships God.

Makes me a Muslim.....

I know what you mean, but actually it identifies one who submits to Allah.

The question is, who is Allah? I really don't beleive, as I used to, that Allah and Yahweh are one and the same.

I say this as respectfully as I know how, but the Allah portrayed in the Koran is more like Satan than he is like Yahweh or Jesus. The Koran definitely was not inspired by the God of the Bible, because the Koran comes right out and says plainly that Jesus is not God's Son. In fact, it says that anyone is a liar who says God ever had a Son. It also says that Muhammed, not Jesus, is the foremost prophet.

Muhammed originally believed that the spirit who visited him was a demon but when the spirit visitor came back on several more occasions, Muhammed changed his mind. I personally believe Muhammed's first hunch was correct. This is the origin of the title of a famous book, The Satanic Verses. Muslims do not not like to be reminded of this truth.

The same spirit visitor came to Joseph Smith about 1820 and claimed to be the spirit of a dead man named Moroni. Both visits, separated by over a thousand years, resulted in books purporting to tell the real truth about God, but both flatly contradict the Bible.

[John317]

I've been so angered by all the mindless anti-muslim feeling that I perceive on the radio, TV, forums etc I plan to buy one of those "don't hate me because I'm a muslim" Tshirts and wear it next summer. I'm flying to the UK next summer and I plan to wear it on the plane.

Am I stupid? My wife thinks I am.

WWBD?

(what would Bonhoffer do)

I think you're to be commended for trying to stick up for people whom you think are the downtrodden and the oppressed, but at the same time, I think there are a lot of issues here that you evidently are not aware of. The most I can say is that you are definitely a really nice guy with a loving, generous heart.

[Amelia]

Quote:

I've been so angered by all the mindless anti-muslim

Me too. See the Religious Liberty forum.

[lazarus]

John

I'm trying really hard not to feel patronised

Pray tell what are the things that I'm evidently not aware of.

I can see that you're are really nice guy too!!!!

[Dr. Shane]

When God gave Eve to Adam as a helpmate it wasn't to hold the other end of a 2x4 while he sawed it. Most men would make a lot less mistakes in life if they listened to their wives more.

[John317]

John

I'm trying really hard not to feel patronised

Pray tell what are the things that I'm evidently not aware of.

I may not be able to add much to what your wife has already mentioned.

But let me try.

Please, though, don't be offended by my words because honestly none is intended. I'm only telling you what I know to be true based on study and personal experience. I have a feeling, though, that nothing that I say here will change your mind and you will probably even think I am being unfair and unkind, whereas I am actually only being honest and telling it like it is.

First of all, you are only calling negative attention to yourself, attention you don't need, and which is not really even based on the truth. (I am assuming that you are not Muslim.)

Second, you don't realize that your actions and attitude are not really appreciated even by most Muslims. They're apt to think you're just another foolish Christian who probably lacks the backbone to die for your own religion. That's how most view Christians anyway. That is why they are banking on the West and the US not having the stomach for a long and costly war. They believe they can out-last us and that we will give up as soon as we see it is going to cost us anything substantial. And they are right. They are quite willing to die but they know you aren't. You just want to go out and make some kind of show and foolish demonstration. They wouldn't understand why you are doing it and they wouldn't spend a moment trying to understand it. That's how the average Muslim would view you and your actions.

Third, you don't seem to realize that Muslims do not mind taking your rights away from you. Islamists don't believe in religious freedom. Whenever Muslims are in a majority, they take away the rights of the minority. Just look anywhere Muslims are in a majority and you will see examples of what I am saying. The Koran only allows Jews and Christians the right to practice their religion as long as they don't resist Muslims, but it says that if they do resist, they are to be killed.

Fourth, you are apparently unaware that the Islamic world intends to conquer the West, just as they attempted to do in the 1500s and before. Islamists believe the whole world must eventually bend the knee to Allah.

Despite my having said all that, or maybe even because of it, you will probably go ahead and wear that sign on your shirt, because your doing so has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. Your wearing the sign has to do, rather, with what is in your heart, and that is kindness and a feeling of empathy for those you believe are wronged and maligned. So wear it. Like I say, you're a nice guy.

[bevin]

I heartily recommend "The World From Islam" - which might help to correct a lot of the misunderstandings of Islam in the previous posts.

For instance, the majority of Muslims are no more interested in conquering the west than the majority of Christians are interested in conquering the Islamic countries.

/Bevin

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Surely you jest!

Of course!

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Most men would make a lot less mistakes in life if they listened to their wives more.

Ain't that the truth!

On 2nd thought... There is a time to listen to your wife;

and there is a time to not listen to your wife!

If only we knew when to do which!

[Gail]

Quote:

and there is a time to not listen to your wife!

There is?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

HI Lazarus,

personally I wouldn't do it. 1st you are not single and have a wife and kids? 2nd you can never tell when things will get out of hand. Which brings me back to #1 you have a responsiblity to your family 1st before defending your anger. If something happens to you then they must suffer because of you actions. To me, that's not fair and it's not worth it. It's like Solomon says, "grabbing a dog by the ears", don't do it.

The other thing is that it may come across as anger depending on what slogan you choose. Also, if there should happen to be some kind of attack by those who claim that religion and you are wearing something like that, you will wish that you had not done so. You will see that it is not worth what you and your family may suffer. You may even loose your life as the result of it or some nut might go after your family.

I don't think that you're stupid but I agree with your wife, don't do it. Suffering insult when it's not you're doing developes good character.

Norman

[John317]

I heartily recommend "The World From Islam" - which might help to correct a lot of the misunderstandings of Islam in the previous posts.

For instance, the majority of Muslims are no more interested in conquering the west than the majority of Christians are interested in conquering the Islamic countries.

/Bevin

But unfortunately the Muslim religion has been hijacked by Islamists. Most Muslims are too afraid of the extremists to speak up and take back their religion.

My only answer to the statement that Muslims aren't interested in conquering the West is the history of Islam and the writings by the extremists themselves.

In Iran at this time, I am sure that the average Iranian has no desire to attack and destroy Israel, but it is kind of important that their leader does.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Most men would make a lot less mistakes in life if they listened to their wives more.

Ain't that the truth!

On 2nd thought... There is a time to listen to your wife;

and there is a time to not listen to your wife!

If only we knew when to do which!

Adam & Abraham were damned for listening to their wives.

Gerry

[lazarus]

I may not be able to add much to what your wife has already mentioned.

But let me try.

I'm feeling quite firmly patronised, Now!

Quote:

Please, though, don't be offended by my words because honestly none is intended. I'm only telling you what I know to be true based on study and personal experience. I have a feeling, though, that nothing that I say here will change your mind and you will probably even think I am being unfair and unkind, whereas I am actually only being honest and telling it like it is.

Of course, what I am suggesting is a STUNT. It will not revolutionise the political situation in the middle east or get the US out of Iraq. Its about making a point and admittedly a crude one at that.

Quote:

First of all, you are only calling negative attention to yourself, attention you don't need, and which is not really even based on the truth. (I am assuming that you are not Muslim.)

I already get attention I don't need by we way I look and the way I dress and the fact that I have a religious worker visa. I also have one of those beards without the moustach which to some is a muslim thing. Then when my wife wears her pink Bhurka.....! (just kidding) Coming in and out of the US is not smooth sailing anyway for me. Of course I don't need the attention! There would be a bit or irony there, which I guessed you missed.

Quote:

Second, you don't realize that your actions and attitude are not really appreciated even by most Muslims.

Is that assertion based on a poll, by the fact that you know most of the muslims in the world or what your muslim friends say to you. This assertion helps to illustrate my point. How do you know that millions of muslims would not appreciate my stunt! They would probably think it was a bad idea but not for the reasons you suggest.

Quote:

They're apt to think you're just another foolish Christian who probably lacks the backbone to die for your own religion. That's how most view Christians anyway. That is why they are banking on the West and the US not having the stomach for a long and costly war. They believe they can out-last us and that we will give up as soon as we see it is going to cost us anything substantial. And they are right. They are quite willing to die but they know you aren't. You just want to go out and make some kind of show and foolish demonstration. They wouldn't understand why you are doing it and they wouldn't spend a moment trying to understand it. That's how the average Muslim would view you and your actions.

Don't make the mistake of presenting your own feelings about what I would do as the feelings of the average muslim. Thats a bit arrogant, right?

Its interesting how you dare to speak for the average Muslim man. Do you have polls, other data? Are talking about Iraq, Turkey, Indonesia, Michigan, Nigeria? You talk as if all Muslims are the same and they all have the same attitudes. What do you mean they wouldn't undertand? That says more about your attitude to them than anything else.

Quote:

Third, you don't seem to realize that Muslims do not mind taking your rights away from you. Islamists don't believe in religious freedom. Whenever Muslims are in a majority, they take away the rights of the minority. Just look anywhere Muslims are in a majority and you will see examples of what I am saying. The Koran only allows Jews and Christians the right to practice their religion as long as they don't resist Muslims, but it says that if they do resist, they are to be killed.

Are you kidding me? So because what you say is largely true that means we should not be speak up when Americans stereo-type and act negatively towards Muslims???!

Quote:

Fourth, you are apparently unaware that the Islamic world intends to conquer the West, just as they attempted to do in the 1500s and before. Islamists believe the whole world must eventually bend the knee to Allah.

Did you get this from Michael Savage, Glen Beck, Rick Santorum or the latest prophecy book from the ABC. Is this from Bernard Lewis Where and what is the Islamic world? Is this offcial turkish government policy? Indonecian policy? Is that Musharaf's long term goal in Pakistan? Is this what Hezbollah wants? Is this the long term goal of the Fattah movement? Is this what the Kurds are planning for Are you talking about Islamic extremists although large and growing in number? Is this what the Chechens are fighting for? Is this the considered opinion of the Ulema?

Quote:

Despite my having said all that, or maybe even because of it, you will probably go ahead and wear that sign on your shirt, because your doing so has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. Your wearing the sign has to do, rather, with what is in your heart, and that is kindness and a feeling of empathy for those you believe are wronged and maligned. So wear it. Like I say, you're a nice guy.

Well thanks for the pat on the head!

I'm sorry I don't have the broad knowlege and experience you have.

A bit of friendly advice. If you dispense with the supercillious (look it up) tone/attitude we may learn something from eachother.

[bevin]

Quote:

But unfortunately the Muslim religion has been hijacked by Islamists. Most Muslims are too afraid of the extremists to speak up and take back their religion.

http://www.islamic-world.net/countries/index.htm provides a list of Islamic countries.

There are some very populated ones you might have heard of...

Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Turkey

When did you last hear their leaders wanting to destroy Israel?

Which of these countries do you regard as being taken over by extremists?

You are making wild generalisations that are simply not true of a majority of the Islamic world.

/Bevin