Moderators John317 Posted December 17, 2006 Moderators Posted December 17, 2006 Believing in the Spirit of Prophecy is a vowBelieving that EGW had it is optional There is no requirement on what the phrase actually means I don't think the European SDA have ever accepted EGW in the same way that NAD ones have /Bevin Read pp. 247-261 in Seventh-day Adventists Believe, on The Gift of Prophecy. "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White-- the Lord's messenger. Her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." I wouldn't have chosen to become a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church if I didn't believe this statement. And if I should ever become convinced that Ellen White wasn't a true prophet of God, I would drop out of the church and join some other one because it wouldn't make sense to continue as a Seventh-day Adventist. Why would I want to be associated with a church led by a false prophet, and that is exactly what it would be if Ellen White is not who and what she claimed to be. She claimed that her more than 2000 visions came from God. If I believed she lied about this, I wouldn't give her one more moment of my attention any more than I would pay any serious attention to Paul if I didn't believe Paul's testimony. The fact that many people, such as some Europeans as well as many others, become Seventh-day Adventists even though they don't believe Ellen White's testimony-- which means they believe Ellen White is not who she claims to be-- makes about as much sense as people becoming Christians without accepting Jesus as the divine Son of God as He claimed to be. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
D. Allan Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Quote: The fact that many people, such as some Europeans as well as many others, become Seventh-day Adventists even though they don't believe Ellen White's testimony-- which means they believe Ellen White is not who she claims to be-- makes about as much sense as people becoming Christians without accepting Jesus as the divine Son of God as He claimed to be. Some people believe in Ellen White strongly when they first become members. Later they begin to have doubts due to various reasons. Prophecy is a gift not limited to Mrs White. Paul urged all Christians to desire that gift. Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
Neil D Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Quote: The fact that many people, such as some Europeans as well as many others, become Seventh-day Adventists even though they don't believe Ellen White's testimony-- which means they believe Ellen White is not who she claims to be-- makes about as much sense as people becoming Christians without accepting Jesus as the divine Son of God as He claimed to be. Some people believe in Ellen White strongly when they first become members. Later they begin to have doubts due to various reasons. Hmmmmm.....I don't have a problem with EGW nor with her messenger of God status...I have a problem with how laymembers of the SDA church USE EGWhite. I have a problem when they use her over the bible. And I have a problem when they use her writings over the bible. I have a problem when her words have been elevated to the point of being verbal inspiration. I have a problem when she is the last word on discussion. In fact, I have a problem when she is quoted on a lively discussion, and then the discussion stops when the words "Ellen White says....." That's what I have a problem with....The people and thier usage of a dead prophet. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Administrators Naomi Posted December 18, 2006 Administrators Posted December 18, 2006 Well said, Neil. Couldn't agree more! Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
there buster Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Quote: when her words have been elevated to the point of being verbal inspiration. Oddly enough, often those who become her most bitter critics do so because they believed or were taught verbal inspiration. That's a common theme in websites and many posts here which attempt to discredit her. Having believed one extreme, and found it wanting, they go to the other extreme and totally disbelieve. The fault is not in Ellen White, but in the mindset of the reader. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
D. Allan Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 You're right, Neil. And Ed, you too. Quote dAb O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
Administrators Gail Posted December 19, 2006 Administrators Posted December 19, 2006 You're right, Neil. And Ed, you too. I'm with both of you on those points, too Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators John317 Posted December 20, 2006 Moderators Posted December 20, 2006 Quote: when her words have been elevated to the point of being verbal inspiration. Oddly enough, often those who become her most bitter critics do so because they believed or were taught verbal inspiration. That's a common theme in websites and many posts here which attempt to discredit her. Having believed one extreme, and found it wanting, they go to the other extreme and totally disbelieve. The fault is not in Ellen White, but in the mindset of the reader. I entirely agree with you, too. Ellen White would have been the first to object to people using her writings "over the Bible," and she certainly would never have wanted anyone to use her writings to beat people over the head or to force certain beliefs on people. In fact, I feel sure that that is also an improper way to use the Bible. People are to be persuaded and loved into the truth, not beaten and dragged into it. I myself love Ellen White and her writings, but they are never to be elevated above Scripture. I know she would be terribly disappointed to know the effect of her writings is often to stop discussion. It shouldn't be that way, nor need it be. That is just the opposite of what they were intended to do. Her writings were actually meant to encourage people to study their Bible's. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted December 20, 2006 Moderators Posted December 20, 2006 Quote: The fact that many people, such as some Europeans as well as many others, become Seventh-day Adventists even though they don't believe Ellen White's testimony-- which means they believe Ellen White is not who she claims to be-- makes about as much sense as people becoming Christians without accepting Jesus as the divine Son of God as He claimed to be. Some people believe in Ellen White strongly when they first become members. Later they begin to have doubts due to various reasons. Prophecy is a gift not limited to Mrs White. Paul urged all Christians to desire that gift. All of that is true, of course. I am certainly well aware of the many reasons some people begin to have doubts about Ellen White. Many people also come to the point where they have doubts about the Bible. I don't think having questions and some doubts are all that bad, actually. It's bound to happen eventually with any thinking person. The problem is that so many people stop too soon, before they find answers. I have a cousin who's a physician who did that. He is no longer in the church or even claims to be a Christian, and it all started with questions about evolution and then finally about Ellen White. He heard a lot of quesions and doubts, but he never studied to find out if there are answers. He simply gave up, believing that it's impossible to know what the truth is. It is also true that prophecy is not limited to Ellen White. But at the same time it is really important to understand that the Holy Spirit never inspires one prophet to say one thing and then inspires someone else to say something different or contradictory. All of the true prophets are in complete agreement. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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