Problems In The White Community

[lazarus]

People who work as guards at schools where there is a history of racial violence. I saw this statement quoted only a short while back in a newspaper by one supervisor of guards at a high school in Riverside County. I have also found that it coincides with my personal experience of 20 years working in an institution where we deal with youth of various races that often get into confrontations with each other. I am the father of two hispanic girls and my oldest, age 18, who just graduated from high school, also says that the blacks and hispanic kids at her school confront one another all the time before reporting incidents, whereas white kids are more likely to report things without first confronting.

Are you seriously basing your bold assertions about over 50 million black and hispanic people on......

some people who work as guards in some schools.

A quote by one supervisor in one school

your personal experiece

your girls.

come on!

[John317]

There are a number of links for this study...

Children's Hospital between 1994 and 2000. PHILADELPHIA --

Minority children are more likely to be evaluated for physical abuse and reported to authorities than white children with comparable injuries, say researchers who studied hospital records at an urban pediatric hospital. Researchers at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia found that African-American and Latino toddlers with accidental injuries were over five times more likely than Caucasian toddlers to receive a skeletal survey, an examination ordered when a physician suspects abuse.

OK, I find that interesting. I didn't know.

Did I tell you that I have reported two incidents? One was against my own brother, who I heard through reliable sources was sexually molesting his daughter. (He's adopted, by the way.) She had told her boy friend that her father was molesting her at night, and the boy friend told an Adventist evangelist. When I found out, I called the authorities in the state where he lives. My brother's daughter lied to the state investigators and said nothing happened. My adopted brother's real brother was also molesting his own daughter and he told me after he pled guilty to child moltestation that while he was staying in my adopted brother's house, he saw my brother molesting his daughter. My brother also had shown sexual interest in my sister as well as in me while I was growing up.

Then a few years ago, I reported the Mexican husband of a friend of my wife's who was physically abusing his son and daughter. He had been arrested once before for doing the same thing, and I found out that he had put feces in his daughters hair and had spanked her with a large wooden spoon. He ended up doing over a year in jail for that offence, and he is actually doing a lot better now as a result of that punishment. To this day he and she do not know who turned him in, and of course I am not going to tell them.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: John317

People who work as guards at schools where there is a history of racial violence. I saw this statement quoted only a short while back in a newspaper by one supervisor of guards at a high school in Riverside County. I have also found that it coincides with my personal experience of 20 years working in an institution where we deal with youth of various races that often get into confrontations with each other. I am the father of two hispanic girls and my oldest, age 18, who just graduated from high school, also says that the blacks and hispanic kids at her school confront one another all the time before reporting incidents, whereas white kids are more likely to report things without first confronting.

Are you seriously basing your bold assertions about over 50 million black and hispanic people on......

some people who work as guards in some schools.

A quote by one supervisor in one school

your personal experiece

your girls.

come on!

Personal experiences are the best. Other stats can be very misleading and incorrect. When it happens to you ... you can know it is true.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

People who work as guards at schools where there is a history of racial violence. I saw this statement quoted only a short while back in a newspaper by one supervisor of guards at a high school in Riverside County. I have also found that it coincides with my personal experience of 20 years working in an institution where we deal with youth of various races that often get into confrontations with each other. I am the father of two hispanic girls and my oldest, age 18, who just graduated from high school, also says that the blacks and hispanic kids at her school confront one another all the time before reporting incidents, whereas white kids are more likely to report things without first confronting.

Are you seriously basing your bold assertions about over 50 million black and hispanic people on......

some people who work as guards in some schools.

A quote by one supervisor in one school

your personal experiece

your girls.

come on!

Yes. I cannot deny my own 20 years of experience. What am I supposed to do-- tell myself that I am imagining things? Are you going to deny that hispanics and blacks trust the police and authorities less than whites? I watch the reaction of blacks and hispanics and whites on a daily basis. I don't need to await the results of some study to tell me what I am seeing. I make my living being able to predict reactions of these boys. I see it constantly, every day. I know which boys are likely to get into it without coming to staff first and which ones wouldn't ever come to report anything to staff but would get it on right then and there.

[John317]

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OK, Laz, you asked for this: (please don't take offense here; I don't mean it personally) I am not defending whites for starting wars

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Oh but you are!

I think you are mistaking explanation for a defense. I am explaining why whites started WWs and blacks did not. I am saying it is not because one race is better than another but rather that whites were able to and blacks were not. I am saying that blacks are not better because they have never started a WW. The fact is that wars amongst blacks are just as evil as white wars. The only real difference is that blacks did not have the know-how to kill as many as the technology of the whites made it possible for them to kill. Whites living today are no worse than whites of ancient times. They have more powerful weaponry and that is the reason they have killed many more in the 20th century than they did centuries before. That is my argument.

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but look at it this way: blacks have not produced any great generals or great scientists or great weapons with which to fight a World War. Nor does Africa have any national causes that could start a WW. So the reason blacks have not started a World War is not for want of trying but for want of opportunity and technological capability. Blacks couldn't start a WW. Africa has been involved in tribes slaughtering each other since about the beginning of time but they just can't successfully attack anyone beyond their own continent. Also, when Africans fight and kill each other, no one really cares or hears of it or takes it seriously. After all, the weapons they use are all obsolete and ancient except for those they get from white people.

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I guess Germans can take comfort in the fact they were able to be so efficient in killing so many Jews. Those Africans are so backward that they could have only killed about 2,000. We did 6 million! Oh and they didn't have th technology to gas them and torture them the way we did. They would have only managed to do it with spears!

No one that I know is taking comfort in those things. I am glad they brought the criminals who did that to judgment and they got what they deserved.

My close friend, Ron, went to the concentration camps of Poland recently and took these excellent pictures there. The link includes many other great photographs made by my friend. http://homepage.mac.com/ronaldrobertgrantham/PhotoAlbum1.html / We have been friends since 1971. These pictures made at the concentration camps reveal only a fraction of the true horror of those places. (Be sure to click on them to enlarge.)

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I guess wiping out 100,000 Japanese in seconds. It would have taken Africans years to kill so many Japanese if they could kill any at all.

Question: Do you think that African Hutus would have killed more Tutsis in 1994 if they had had more powerful weaponry or technological ability? As it was all they had were spears and baseball bats and rifles. Was it because they were any better morally than whites that they didn't kill more or was it because they couldn't kill any more?

When it comes to the 100,000 killed in Japan, would you have wanted a million or more Japanese killed, plus a million Americans killed? That is what would have happened had the United States not dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As bad as the bomb was, since it was dropped over 2 million people lived that would otherwise have been killed. Also you have to consider the whole Pacific war, not just a few minutes of it. If you look at what the Japanese did to the Chinese and Koreans and to the British, Australians and Americans, 100,000 people killed in Japan was only like a handful compared to the number the Japanese killed.

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By the way, do you think whites have an obligation to go to the rescue of Africans when they fight and enslave each other and are dying of AIDS? Why does Africa have so many profound and seemingly unsolvable problems? Can't Africans take care of their own problems?

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Of course there is no obligation. Its clear that we just find it so hard to talk about the white community without pointing out the negative aspects of the black community. Its like a reflex action. Perhaps its a defense mechanism. Maybe it a cultural aspect of white society, theres always some group that worse than us. Its the attitude that just won't die.......like this thread I suppose!

Actually I am trying to understand these things from your perspective. But you are right, this is probably not the right thread to discuss the problems of Africa and Haiti, etc. (I have a daughter who went a few years ago on a mission to teach the poor of the Dominican Republic about health and the gospel of Christ.)

All races have problems, including whites, of course, and I have pointed out some of those problems that I believe exist in the white community. The challanges in the white community are not as desperate as those in the black community, nor do they stand out as obviously. That is my opinion after watching a lot of discussions among black thought-leaders, reading a lot of books on the subject, and walking down a lot of American streets in black neighborhoods.

But for myself, I would much rather start concentrating now on the good things that I find in both the black and the white communities, and there are many. The good in my mind far outweighs the negative in both communities.

[Naomi]

[Naomi]

And, Amen!

[Kountzer]

interesting article:

http://www.ebonyjet.com/nword.aspx?id=2556

[lazarus]

the thread that just won't die...

U just can't resist posting can you!

[Woody]

Regarding "the thread that just won't die... "

And as long as there are race problems and challenges ... this thread should NOT die.

[John317]

interesting article:

http://www.ebonyjet.com/nword.aspx?id=2556

Yes, I understand it. I am sure I would be angry, too, if I was called those things. I don't fault blacks for being angry about being called the "n-word." I have never called anyone that, and as a matter of fact, it's been years since I heard a white person using it except on TV or in a book. At my work I often have to tell blacks not to call each other "niggah" because it also is a denigrating word. They often call each other that when very angry, even during physical altercations. Sometimes they even call me "niggah" when the use of "you there" would work just fine. I understand it is not the same as the "n-word" as used by other races against blacks, but it is related to it and reminds people of the "n-word" every time it is used. I agree with Jesse Jackson, who said that it would be better if no one used either of those words.

But having said that, I think we need to move beyond the justified rant against name-calling and discuss what can be done to bring the various races in this country together, particularly whites, hispanics and blacks.

Is it realistic to think that the day will come when blacks, for instance, will be as integrated into our American society the same as all other groups who have come to this country, groups who initially were scorned and hated and discriminated against? What does "fully integrated" mean? What is keeping it from happening? Am I wrong to assume that it has not already happened for the majority of blacks? Am I perhaps wrong to assume that this is what the majority of blacks even want in the first place? Or am I showing a lack of perception to even ask the last question?

[Woody]

Regarding :

"it's been years since I heard a white person using it except on TV or in a book"

I have never heard a White person use the N word on TV or in a book. But, I regularly hear Blacks use the word as either a term of endearment for each other or for a word they use in anger.

Can you tell me where you heard a WHITE person using this word on TV . Perhaps 40-50 years ago. But not in recent history.

[John317]

Regarding "the thread that just won't die... "

And as long as there are race problems and challenges ... this thread should NOT die.

I agree. It's good to get everything out in the open and air this stuff out. It's always better to express anger or ignorance than hold it in, because how can someone find out he's ignorant if he doesn't hear it from others in feed back, and how can a person ever get over his anger unless he finds out that maybe he's angry over nothing or something unimportant or illusory? I really believe strongly in working hard at communication because I know that's what it takes to do it successfully. Sometimes it may hurt and sometimes people get mad but in the end if they keep at it I've never seen the time when it wasn't worth it.

By the way, has anyone here ever read the play, Zoo Story? It's about the failure to communicate and how one guy stabs another guy to death because of it but also in order to do it. A lot of people are desparate to really communicate with someone. So many words yet so little genuine communciation.

[Woody]

John 317 ... You have stated it SO well. Thank you for expressing my feelings better than I can .

[John317]

Regarding :

"it's been years since I heard a white person using it except on TV or in a book"

I have never heard a White person use the N word on TV or in a book. But, I regularly hear Blacks use the word as either a term of endearment for each other or for a word they use in anger.

Can you tell me where you heard a WHITE person using this word on TV . Perhaps 40-50 years ago. But not in recent history.

On TV, you have movies, such as Guess Who's Coming To Dinner; The Long Hot Summer; and many others; but you also have the OJ Simson trial and the blather about Mark Furman's use or non-use of the n-word.

Much of the great literature use the n-word all the time: William Faulkner, Toni Morrison, Ernest Hemingway, Mark Twain, Ralph Ellison, Richard Wright, James Baldwin*, and dozens more. It occurs in the great literature because great writers are not generally concerned with political correctness but are out to "tell the truth mostly", as one of them said, and they try to show life as they've personally experienced it.

*(I don't consider Baldwin in the same league with the others, but he was awful good sometimes, such as in Go Tell It On the Mountain.)

[Woody]

My point is that current TV shows regularly put the N word in the scripts for Blacks to use but would not think of having a White person say those words. In general Whites do not use the word except for very rare occasions. But the Blacks use the word very frequently. If a White person uses it ... he will lose his job and suffer severe consequences. But it is socially acceptable for Blacks to use it.

Sounds disproportionate to me !!!

[Woody]

I also think it is important to note HOW the word is used. For instance ... Richard Wright used it to describe how hard it was for a "Black Boy" to be called this word especially after the abuse of living in an Adventist home which was so legalist.

Check out the book "Black Boy" to read about all the abuses this boy had with a Seventh day Adventist home in the South.

But again ... the book was written some 60 years ago.

[John317]

My point is that current TV shows regularly put the N word in the scripts for Blacks to use but would not think of having a White person say those words. In general Whites do not use the word except for very rare occasions. But the Blacks use the word very frequently. If a White person uses it ... he will lose his job and suffer severe consequences. But it is socially acceptable for Blacks to use it.

Sounds disproportionate to me !!!

You're right there. Of course you realize that you will have a lot of blacks disagreeing with that. They would say it is sort of like the difference between your telling your sister or brother that your mom's a liar and then hearing your neighbor scream the same notion on the street corner. The difference is that you love your mom and it's family and the neighbor maybe hates your mom and certainly is no part of the family.

But I do agree that everyone ought to just stop using it in all its forms. Like Jesse said.

[Woody]

I would say to the Black community ... Lead by example.

[John317]

I also think it is important to note HOW the word is used. For instance ... Richard Wright used it to describe how hard it was for a "Black Boy" to be called this word especially after the abuse of living in an Adventist home which was so legalist.

Check out the book "Black Boy" to read about all the abuses this boy had with a Seventh day Adventist home in the South.

But again ... the book was written some 60 years ago.

Yes I know. Isn't that really tragic? I've read it several times and find it hard to believe he's describing an Adventist home. It was his grandma's home as I recall. She was abusive in that she was very strict and didn't show much love and made him do things he didn't want to do. He probably was describing some things we would consider wrong today, but it is also probable that Richard Wright did not remember everything just exactly the way it was and also that he took some litarary licence in the writing. Nevertheless it is obvious his situation was not a pleasant one and it would have been better for him and a better reflection on the church if Wright had had a good experience in his Grandmother's home. Maybe then Wright would never have become an atheist and communist.

[Amelia]

It's not the word in mainline TV or books that the young people hear, its the words used in todays music and music vidios. The N word and B word in addition to various body part words are used very liberaly and forcefully. IMHO that is the A number one problem. Some of the music also denigrates women and encourages abuse. Remember both whites and blacks listen to this music.

[Amelia]

interesting article:

http://www.ebonyjet.com/nword.aspx?id=2556

[Dr. Shane]

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IMHO that is the A number one problem.

It made my list

• Secular entertainment

[Dr. Shane]

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I know many people choose due to the color of their skin but so many of mixed race will openly say they are black only.

Tiger Woods says he doesn't consider himself black. And I know he had a very dear relationship with his dad.

[Kountzer]

I also think it is important to note HOW the word is used. For instance ... Richard Wright used it to describe how hard it was for a "Black Boy" to be called this word especially after the abuse of living in an Adventist home which was so legalist.

Check out the book "Black Boy" to read about all the abuses this boy had with a Seventh day Adventist home in the South.

But again ... the book was written some 60 years ago.

His so called legalist Grandmother and Aunt treated him a lot better than the communist party.

DB