Reaching Post-Moderns & Ed Dickerson

[Stan]

Was at some meetings this weekend..... Jon Pauline...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Paulien

Made an interesting statement... that a certain

ED DICKERSON was the most brilliant mind we have in our Church for meeting post-moderns...

Anyone ever heard of this guy?

Even heard he has a book coming out from the Pacific Press

[Gail]

LOL

We have had nothing but raving reports about Paulien all day as our Conference workers head home from their retreat

Stan, did you jump up and down and tell him that you know this Dickerson guy?

[Amelia]

Quote:

meeting post-moderns...

What are those?

[bevin]

That is a very powerful recommendation! Congrats Ed

/Bevin

[Naomi]

Quote:

meeting post-moderns...

What are those?

young adults

[Naomi]

Yes, Ed, congratulations!

[cricket]

Perhaps Mr. Dickerson can tell us what is meant by the term "post-modern".

[there buster]

I've been away from my computer for half a day and this sort of thing pops up.

Where were you, Stan? What was Jon's topic?

as for me. . .

How does one reply to such things?

I am, of course, deeply gratified, but also deeply humbled.

[cricket]

Here's what was said on another Christian forum regarding "postmodern":

Quote:

Postmodernism simply doubts that any of us have ALL the truth, because we see things from different perspectives. It doubts metanarratives, while giving due credit to individual narratives. It is the philosophical equivalent to the scientific discoveries of such people as Einstein, Heisenberg and Schrodinger.

A postmodernistic preacher would offer insights, realizing that we are all at different places on our spiritual journey, and we all help each other along the way. Thus, he or she would also tend to be more open and respectful to the insights of others, rather than acting like God's Word to the church flows only through him.

Postmodernism is not a doctrine that all beliefs are equally "valid" or true. Postmodernism is not so dogmatic as to make such an assertion.

Perhaps that helps, Amelia.

[Jerry D Thomas]

Congratulations, Ed. I really did enjoy your manuscript and I agree with Jon Paulien's sentiment. Sorry I was too slow to be helpful with an endorsement.

Everyone else--get Ed's book when it's available. The world has changed and if we don't, we won't have a message anyone can relate to.

[there buster]

There is academic postmodernism, which is taught in university philosophy classes, and then there is cultural postmodernism, which is a different animal.

Just as there is academic Evolution, and cultural belief in "progress." These are related, but quite different ideas.

Cultural postmodernism we deal with on an everyday basis, but may not recognize it.

Virtually anyone under 35-- even SDA's-- have been influenced by it. An excellent online article, written by an evangelical young woman, will give you the general feel for it. Talking to Generation X

Although she specifically addresses Generation-X, much of it applies also to their younger, less negative siblings, who are called, variously: Millennials, echo-boomers, generation-Y

If you know someone who gets Sabbath School Leadership Magazine, I've had a series of articles in that publication describing postmoderns and how to reach them.

If people really desire it, I can put parts of some of those articles here.

The most important thing I can say is this: As in most important things, balance is the key.

On the one hand, it's easy for us, as Adventists, thoroughly modern in our thinking, and adherents of "absolute truth," to spend our energy de-bunking and tearing down postmodern thought. It's not particularly difficult to do.

But we cannot reach culturally postmodern people--nearly everyone in the advanced world under age 40-- by criticizing their thought patterns.

Nor can we bring the gospel to postmoderns by adopting their thought patterns. More than a few Christians have fallen into this trap.

We DO have to understand how they think, and approach them in ways that speak to them where they are.

It's very much a task of understanding an alien culture and language. They speak English, but it means different things in postmodern settings.

There are online postmodern discussion groups. Listening in on them is like Alice's trip through the looking-glass-- unless you are yourself postmodern.

[there buster]

Thank you, Jerry. I really appreciate your evaluation. YOu're familiar with the process, I'm sure. They kept putting me off, and then it was "right now!" Thank you for taking the time to read the MS.

As you know, there's still time for publicity material up until the last of February.

[D. Allan]

Quote:

Here's what was said on another Christian forum regarding "postmodern":

Quote:

Postmodernism simply doubts that any of us have ALL the truth, because we see things from different perspectives. It doubts metanarratives, while giving due credit to individual narratives. It is the philosophical equivalent to the scientific discoveries of such people as Einstein, Heisenberg and Schrodinger.

A postmodernistic preacher would offer insights, realizing that we are all at different places on our spiritual journey, and we all help each other along the way. Thus, he or she would also tend to be more open and respectful to the insights of others, rather than acting like God's Word to the church flows only through him.

Postmodernism is not a doctrine that all beliefs are equally "valid" or true. Postmodernism is not so dogmatic as to make such an assertion.

Sounds good to me!

~d.allan

[Amelia]

Thank you Ed. That answered my question. I wanted to know to which generation the "postmodern" tag was hanging on.

[there buster]

Just as "modernism" was a way of thinking for many generations, postmodernism may be also. So far, it applies to anyone under 40-- and I've heard it from people older than I am.

The transition from one way of thinking to another is never neat or hard-edged.

I personally believe that what we now call "postmodernism" will be remembered as the early stages of something else-- not being a prophet, I can only guess what it will be called--but so far "postmodernism" is much like the Earth before Creation: without form, and void. Postmoderns themselves tend to be more adamant about what they're not than what they are.

Christians who consider themselves postmodern use the term "emerging," as in, "there's a new kind of church emerging." Although I have severe reservations about the "emergent" movement, I think they're basically correct about that. The next form the church will take will "emerge," it won't be decreed or planned, it will happen -- is happening-- in spite of us.

[cricket]

The next form the church will take will "emerge," it won't be decreed or planned, it will happen -- is happening-- in spite of us.

I've one thing to say to this: Amen!

(And yes, I'm a post-modernist thinker.)

[Amelia]

But it means that Im an old fuddy duddy. And here I always thought I was a postmodern thinker. Phooey

[there buster]

Quote:

(And yes, I'm a post-modernist thinker.)

I don't know. That's a pretty strong affirmation for a postmodern. Usually they would say:

"If there is a thing called postmodernism, I resonate more with it as I understand it, than with modernism, so, I guess I am a postmodern. Sort of."

(just kidding-- sort of)

[Stan]

HI Ed..

It was Pastor's retreat at the British Columbia Conference, Jon spoke for the past number of days..

He also spoke about Grame?? I believe he may be a member here as well.

[there buster]

Hi, Stan,

Just a guess. Jon and Graeme Bradford of Australia are working on a Revelation outreach project. I've acted as consultant, and may be further involved in that as well.

If it's not Graeme Bradford, then I can't think who it might be.

[bevin]

I read yesterday the latest Adventist World mag (or whatever the right title is for the Ad Rev World Ed) and it had an article on the reaching post-moderns

Unfortunately the result is going to be exactly the same as today, except it will take longer to get there. The process will get people into the SDA church, and when they find out what the real beliefs actually are, they will leave again

The SDA church needs to actually consider CORE CHANGES - what a radical thought - it doesn't help to put up a nicer street sign and pave the drive-way if, when you get into the house, it is dilapadated inside

It is good that Ed is working on reaching people - let us hope someone is working on having something bearable to give them once they are reached

I have my doubts - the monthly mag arrived from the Atlantic Union today. It had a terrifying traditional article on sex, marriage, and homosexuality and threatened an even worse series of articles in the month's to come

/Bevin

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

(And yes, I'm a post-modernist thinker.)

I don't know. That's a pretty strong affirmation for a postmodern. Usually they would say:

"If there is a thing called postmodernism, I resonate more with it as I understand it, than with modernism, so, I guess I am a postmodern. Sort of."

(just kidding-- sort of)

[Bravus]

Just wanted to add my congrats to Ed, and note that I too look forward to reading the book.

I'd argue that, while age is a reasonable rule of thumb, there are a fair few young modernists and some olde postmodernists too.

[cricket]

When I claim to be post-modern, it's by my own definition, of course!

I prefer the term seventh-day post-modern euanthropist Christian. (SPEC)

[D. Allan]

Quote:

It is good that Ed is working on reaching people - let us hope someone is working on having something bearable to give them once they are reached

Yes, that would require a big change of attitude.

Postmoderns are likely to see through an organized system of religion as through a window looking onto a scene of manipulation and power over the poor pewsetters.

They might go for an unconventional religion based on actual experiences in life rather than a systematized dogmaticism that requires every person to submit their thought and souls to the authority of "leaders" in a church.

~d.allan