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In the old days, we had large amounts of people actively discussing many topics. That was way before Facebook, Reddit or even Youtube(?) . I came here after Compuserve. There have been many software updates since then. This version works well. CA was the place to be back then. CA is a safe place. I suspect that many who used to post here have died or lost interest due to old age. That is the problem with getting old. Your friends all die. Keep up the good work, Stan.

We are living in a time when it is important not to be misunderstood. The bottom line is that the murder of Charlie Kirk was a terrible crime. He was not a perfect person, but that does not negate the fact that it was a terrible crime. In an effort to prevent misunderstanding, I am asking that we refrain from commenting on any imperfections that we may think are related to him, regardless of whether they are true or not. Violations of my request will be considered for removal. NOTE: I have discussed this with Stan who is aware of my decision.

Hobie, I understand EGW in light of what the Bible plainly says. I don't try to interpret Scripture in light of what EGW says. It is not unusual for people to do that, hence the confusion over issues such as this. If you read and thought about the Biblical evidence I presented in the above post and still prefer what you think Sr. White said, I'm sorry for that. The Bible is much easier to understand than what she said on this topic. I wish you well in your journey.

I had noticed that Paul often starts and/or ends his letters giving honor to God, Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, so I went through them to check. Here is my report, using the ESV. New Testament books greetings and closings (G = God, J = Jesus, S = Son, H = Holy Spirit) G JS H Romans 1:1-8 G J Romans 16:25-27 G J 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 J 1 Corinthians 16:23 G J 2 Corinthians 1:1-2 G J H 2 Corinthians 13:14 G J Galatians 1:1-3 J Galatians 6:18 G J H Ephesians 1:3, 13 G J Ephesians 6:23 G J Philippians 1:2 J Philippians 4:21, 23 G J Colossians 1:1-2 G JS H 1 Thessalonians 1:1-5, 10 J 1 Thessalonians 5:28 G J 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 J 2 Thessalonians 3:18 G J 1 Timothy 1:1-2 G J 1 Timothy 6:11-16 G J 2 Timothy 1:1-2 G J Titus 1:1-4 J H Titus 3:5-6 G J Philemon 3 J Philemon 23 (Jesus G JS Hebrews 1:1-2 G J Hebrews 13:20-21 G J James 1:1 G J H 1 Peter 1:2-3 G J 1 Peter 5:14 (Jesus) G J 2 Peter 1:1-2 G JS 1 John 1:3-4 G J 1 John 5:20 G JS 2 John 1 G JS 2 John 9 G JS Jude 1 G J H Jude 20, 25 G J Revelation 1:1-2 G J ? Revelation 22:17-21

i suppose it is easy to think that since we may consider Luther to be the Father of the Reformation that he rejected all of his Catholic background. I think that such would be false. I would suspect that he maintained some of his Catholic background. In my experience, I find that converts to Adventism from a Catholic background maintain some of their Catholic faith and practices. In short, I suspect that Luther probably maintained his Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. I suspect that this is what scholars from the Lutheran church would say. NOTE": Catholics and Adventists do not disagree on every aspect of the Christian faith.

Keep in mind that the central purpose of Club Adventist is to provide a place for people of differing views to discuss them in a civil manner. This generally involves a comparison of differing views. So, yes, we do address LGBTQ issues. However, we do ask that such discussion do not use adverse language in reference to such people. God loves all persons including LGBTQ people. On a personal basis, I am probably a bit more conservative than you might think. I welcome civil discussion here on all issues.

Friend Please have a conversation without being insulting. Stan

I believe the earth is around 6000 years old. I believe the creation of this planet happened in 6 days. I believe God created man from the dust of the earth.

There are 7 days in a week. God may be worshiped on any/all of those 7 days. * SDA pastors hold worship services on Saturday and Sunday evenings. Take your pick. One of those is the Biblical first day of the week. * SDA pastors serving in chaplaincy positions hold worship services on Sunday mornings. In my service as a Federal chaplain, I have held more worship services on Sunday morning than I have held on Saturday as a a pastor of a SDA Chruch. * My service as a Fderal Chaplalin was endorsed by the General Conference who was fully awaare that I held Sunday w orship services. NOTE, IF the General Conference had not approved of wah tI did, they could have removed me from my federal position. Federal Chqaplains only serve with the permission of tlheir denominaiton. * The Sabbath is much more than a worswhip service, It is a 24 hour day devoted to God. In all of my life I have kept Saturday, the 7th day, as a Sabbth. I have never kept Sunday as a Sabbath. * If you think that mere worship on a day makes it a Sabbath, you lneed to review the Biblical and SDA teaching, as youy clearly donot understand them.

Researchers at Mass General Brigham have uncovered evidence that the thymus, a small immune system organ long thought to lose its importance after childhood, may play a major role in adult health. Two new studies found that adults with healthier thymuses were more likely to live longer and less likely to develop serious diseases. The research also suggests that thymic health may influence how well cancer patients respond to immunotherapy. The findings were published in two papers in the same issue of Nature and challenge decades of assumptions about the thymus. The results indicate that the organ remains important throughout adulthood and could eventually help guide disease prevention strategies and cancer treatment decisions. "The thymus has been overlooked for decades and may be a missing piece in explaining why people age differently, and why cancer treatments fail in some patients," said Hugo Aerts, PhD, corresponding author on the papers and director of the Artificial Intelligence in Medicine (AIM) Program at Mass General Brigham. "Our findings suggest thymic health deserves much more attention and may open new avenues for understanding how to protect the immune system as we age." What the Thymus Does Located in the chest, the thymus helps train T cells, a type of immune cell that helps defend the body against infections and disease. Because the organ gradually shrinks after puberty and produces fewer new T cells over time, many scientists assumed it played only a limited role in adult health. As a result, the thymus has received relatively little attention in large population studies. Earlier research connected T cell diversity to aging and declining immune function, but those studies were typically small and focused on blood samples. The new research took a much broader approach. Investigators analyzed data from more than 25,000 adults participating in a national lung cancer screening trial, along with more than 2,500 people enrolled in the Framingham Heart Study, a long-running study that tracks the health of generally healthy adults. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260601025352.htm

For generations, scientists have viewed the inability to regrow lost body parts as one of the fundamental limitations of humans and other mammals. While creatures such as salamanders can regenerate entire limbs, humans typically heal injuries by forming scar tissue. New research from the Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences (VMBS), however, suggests that regenerative abilities may not be entirely absent in mammals. Instead, they could be hidden within the body's normal healing machinery, waiting to be activated under the right conditions. "Why some animals can regenerate and others, particularly humans, can't is a big question that has been asked since Aristotle," said Dr. Ken Muneoka, a professor in the VMBS' Department of Veterinary Physiology & Pharmacology (VTPP). "I've spent my career trying to understand that." In a study published in Nature Communications, Muneoka and colleagues describe a new two-step treatment that enabled the regeneration of bone, joint structures, and ligaments. Although the regrown tissues were not perfect replicas of the originals, the researchers believe the approach could eventually help reduce scarring and improve tissue repair after amputations. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260618041508.htm

Researchers in Brazil have created a new biomaterial made from jackfruit latex, pomegranate peel extract, and simvastatin (a statin-based medication) that could offer a more effective way to treat periodontitis, a serious form of gum disease. The team, from the Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences (FCMS) at the Pontifical Catholic University of São Paulo (PUC-SP) in Sorocaba, developed the material as part of an effort to improve treatment options for a condition that affects the tissues supporting the teeth. Periodontitis is a chronic inflammatory disease caused by infection. Over time, it can destroy the structures that hold teeth in place, leading to bone loss and reduced attachment between teeth and surrounding tissues. Current treatments are designed to control infection and inflammation, but they generally do little to regenerate damaged periodontal tissue. Other approaches, including guided tissue regeneration and bone grafting, have been explored, but their results can vary and are often difficult to predict. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260618041508.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ I have a Jackfruit tree in my yard. The fruit is the size of two smaller bowling balls. It is very popular here. When one fruit is ready, we cut it down and cut it up into pieces, then share with the neighbors. Nothing is waisted. Even the seed (about the size of dates) are boiled and eaten. Gum disease is not a problem here.

Adventist Today and Spectrum are two independent publications that do not officially speak for the SDA Church. Each informs as to news that is not easily available, and each evaluates the SDA Church. Both publish a journal that is sent to a few people. Both publish on the Internet that is available to a much larger group of people. Those two publications are different. On May 17, 2026, Spectrum is expected to post a unique article that differs from its past publications in two aspects. You may read that article at: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/opinion/a-catholic-and-an-adventist-disagree-over-trinity-interpretations-yet-find-friendship-online/ * One of the unusual aspects is that the article was written by two different people. I am only one of those people. * The second unique aspect of that article is that the second author is a devout Roman Catholic ho posts on Club Adventist under the name Gustave. Here he freely posts his overall thinking of Adventism. My position is that it is helpful to understand how other people think about us. NOTE: I have decided to unlock this thread even though the article has not yet been posted. I expect that it will be posted later today--Sunday, the 17th.

I would have to lean towards that, and going about and am telling everyone we are near...

There are only two movements in Christianity today with spiritual force behind it, Adventism and the church of Rome. The others are letting go of their foundations and drifting towards Rome or worse..

Why should I believe in the validity of the New Testament? Why should I believe that Christ rose from the dead? Powerful preachers exist in Adventism, whom I never mention in comments that I post in this forum. A new one has arisen on the Adventist scene who cannot be ignored and demands my recognition. That person is Shane Anderson, the senior pastor at Andrews University. The following is an exceptional series of sermons. # 1: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/03/07/part-1-sahara-surprise # 2: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/03/28/part-2-when-knowing-truth-not-enough # 3: https://www.pmchurch.org/service/2026/04/04/part-3-tomb-raider

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? Hebrews 2 New International Version We are warned not to drift away. Over the years, I have seen many people drift away. Studying the word of God every day, keeps us from drifting away. I have never seen someone drift away who was studying the bible every day.

There are many in our church who believe that we have the truth, and that only people who fit a certain mold will be in heaven. Philippines is about 80% catholic. Probably more in my area. There are MANY devoted catholics here. I have had the opportunity to visit, get to know and observe. The faith and dedication to God that some of these people have is humbling. They don't have the truth we have, but they have the faith the bible talks about. Complete trust in God. Sometimes, we are not so smart as we think we are.

Another man with whom he had issues was one who borrowed one of his books and did not return it. Elder Richards retrieved it from his widow. He told me a story about a historical figure who had secured a firearm, something new at the time. When the king paraded through his town, he took aim and fired from a rooftop, knocking the king off his horse. HMS thought that was quite amusing. Not sure why he told me that story. I enjoyed reading the VOP book[let] of the month. I retrieved a bag full of them from the VOP headquarters. One was called "The Occult Explosion." It had a purple and black cover with appropriate illustrations. We had some Hell's Angels in our town at that time. I offered the booklet to one of them. He not only accepted it but thanked me for giving it to him.

It was interesting hearing the former president’s speak at the funeral.

They told their clergy to ensure the will is up to date, as they may end up giving their lives for their neighbours. https://www.npr.org/2026/01/18/nx-s1-5678579/ice-clashes-new-hampshire-bishop-urges-clergy-prepare-wills#:~:text=Bishop Rob Hirschfeld in the,Hirschfeld's comments quickly went viral.

But two years later, on July 4, at the 2025 GC Session in St. Louis, Missouri, out of the almost 2,000 session delegates who had just heard Wilson’s official “President’s Report”—a telling of everything the church accomplished under his 15-year-long leadership—only 188 of the floor delegates voted for him. The vast majority clearly decided that the church can, in fact, survive without him. Wilson was not reelected president, and Erton Köhler succeeded him with over 90 percent approval. In the first 6 months, it appears he is doing what he said he would. More focus on humanitarian efforts and programs. He appears to be reduced intensity. So far he is doing a great job.

The celebration of the Passover is explained by various conversations by the characters in this episode. It informs viewers that do not have a Christian background what was happening during this feast. In one scene the high priest is dining with King Herod. They are discussing Jesus and it is presented in such a way that the high priest is clearly threatened by Jesus while King Herod sees Jesus as harmless. We know that Jesus was not a threat to the civil government of Rome. He was a threat to the Jewish religious leadership. After the resurrection and ascension, the new Christian sect was such a threat to Jewish leadership that they became persecuted. We see in this story the "church" and the "state". Jesus was not a threat to the state but was a threat to the church. The state is all about power and treasure in this world. The church is about power and treasure in the world to come. The episode comes to a climax with the cleansing of the temple. Jesus overturns the tables and runs the livestock and vendors out. It is very forceful. It is noteworthy that the Jewish people were expecting the Messiah to come and free them from Rome. They expected the Messiah to attack Rome. However, the Messiah did not attack Rome. He attacked the erroring Jewish establishment. During the first season, Jesus met with Nicodemus. The light came on for Nicodemus when he realized the Messiah didn't come to free them from Rome but rather to free them from sin. Cleansing the temple is an active illustration of Jesus freeing us from sin. The Jewish religion had become rigid legalism. Rigid legalism traps us in sin. If Jesus was here today, would He be trying to reform civil government or would He be focusing on the church? The reality is that Jesus is here today as He lives in those that believe in Him. Should our focus be on the civil government or on the church? How can we be free from legalism and fulfill the purpose God has for us at this time?

What kind of person would be willing to lay down his life for an 'undesirable'

I start out with the idea that "Hell Fire" is God present in person in all God's love, beauty and glory that purifies and calls out the best in everyone. Some people will find this heaven, but others who have not wanted the best in them to be in control will find it very, very uncomfortable to be with him. Jesus is their deepest desire, they long to run into his loving arms; but they don't know him. They are unforgiving people and thus cannot comprehend forgiveness. They picture what they would do to someone like themselves if they were God. They want to run to him but refuse to yield to this deepest desire. They want to but won't. In the end God treats everyone the same, but our choices depend on how we respond. While this comes from Ellen White, I believe that it's Biblical. She pictures us seeing Jesus coming in the clouds and we are overwhelmed and ask "Who shall be able to stand?" There is a moment of horrible silence, then Jesus says [sings?] "My grace is sufficient for you!" To these words we find two responses. Some realize "Yes, this is my friend Jesus and his grace is sufficient for me! This is my God and He will save me!" Jesus does not say "My grace is sufficient for you Stan and for you Matthew, but sorry Kevin, it's not sufficient for you." Jesus says to each and every one of us "My grace is sufficient for you." Some believe him, others have just had their ear drums vibrate to the sweetest sound it ever heard telling them that his grace is sufficient for them, but they do not believe him. They think he is lying and they run to the rocks... Heaven is total reality. In a lot of ways hell is the rejection of reality as they become slaves to the figment of their imagination. Building on this are the three aspects of the trinity, the issues of the great controversy which creatures need to ask if God is who God claims to be or not, and the mystery of how Lucifer instead of looking for the answers to this question, turned the question into three deceptions one against each member of the trinity. The Holy Spirit works with every heart. Every group/religion has a mixture of truth, error, misunderstandings and superstitions. The monotheistic religions have more truth available to them, especially as they accept the Bible and aspects of the Bible, but many with much truth available don't take advantage of this gift, while many with less available treasure what they have. The Holy Spirit has, and we should have "Listening Love" where we want to understand the other person, encourage them in the truth that they have and encourage them to grow. Being saved "in the name of Jesus" is not righteousness by vocabulary, but the character of Jesus, even if they are in religions that don't understand the word "J-E-S-U-S". or where he has been misrepresented over the centuries where the word becomes a sore spot and we expect them to just give up centuries of pain and that they are lost because they are uncomfortable saying that word. But they may know HIM, Who he is. Praying in Jesus name means to pray for the same types of things Jesus would pray for. Our Jewish and Muslim friends have an amazing amount of truth, but may not see it, and instead of helping them to see what they already have, we want them to give the correct vocabulary. Jesus cries at this. Historians said that it is not clear how pious Manfred von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was, but his hero was Oswald Boelcke who was very pious and a devote follower of the Lord. Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Von Richthofen tried to imitate Boelcke's Christlikeness. Very different from others who admired Boelcke's prowess in shooting down enemy planes but not his character. Von Richthofen was more impressed by Boelcke's character than he was by Boelcke's ability to shoot down enemy planes. Von Richthofen was impressed by the way the character of Jesus was reflected in Boelcke. Is this not accepting Jesus? When I was at Andrews, going through the White Estate vault, I came across a document that I believe that Mrs. White wrote. Since I cannot go back and confirm this I will not say "Mrs. White said..." but I was going through her writings and as far as I know she said this. The document talked about "atheists" and the writer but them into two groups. The one group were "infidels" who were in rebellion against God. The second group was called "Honest doubters" who questioned how God can exist with different issues we face in the world, but they develop caring, kind characters. This writer saw heaven as having room for these "honest doubters." It's late, so this is a place to start.

thanks I am going to set up a different email address for paypal, this may take a couple of days, It is so appreciated

Is it possible for humans to have some organs that have a XX configuration and other organs that have a XY configuration? " Intersex people might have sex organs that include both XX and XY sex characteristics. " See : https://scienceline.org/2020/10/beyond-x-y-chromosomes-and-sex-organs/ NOTE: i first learned about this many years ago when I was a chaplain to a large military police unit (Brigade). This has implications for the use of genetic material in criminal investigations.

? Pic du jour Photo: Stewart Verdery Reader Stewart Verdery — who's sent us some brilliant parting shots over the years — tells us: "I actually think this was the coolest photo of 2025." "On a transatlantic flight in September into Dulles, I ... happened to look over and see the sunset from 35,000 feet over the Atlantic. Looks like the sun is sitting on top of the clouds."

In my opinion, none of this matters much. For over 100 years, the church has been preaching about the Judgment. This is the next big event that counts. The Judgment of the living. I talked about it here : If we don't get pardoned in the judgment, nothing else matters. I believe the judgment of the living is going on right now.

? Wild highway Photo: Colorado Department of Transportation Construction is complete on what Colorado officials call North America's largest wildlife crossing — passing over a busy stretch of Interstate 25. Why it matters: The Greenland wildlife overpass covers a major migration zone for elk, mule deer, pronghorn, bears and mountain lions, Axios Denver's Alayna Alvarez writes. For decades, the freeway sliced through their routes, raising the risk of collisions. The new system will cut wildlife-vehicle crashes by 90%, Colorado transportation director Shoshana Lew estimates. At 209 feet long and 200 feet wide, the overpass spans six lanes of interstate traffic.

Folks, you have no idea as to how many hours Stan has spent attempting to make this forum work again. For those who do not know, Stan is the Owner of this forum and he pays the bills and appreciates any gifts that you make to keep it running.

But they have crowns. That leads me to believe they are overcomers. It seems to me God would want overcomers in a leadership role in heaven. In the end, it does not really matter. What ever God's plan is, it is perfect.

Kevin, I have no ideal as to how long it took you to prepare and write you post above. I thank you for it. It serves a real purpose.

Absolutely a true hero!

December 3, 2025 The current issue(December 2025) of the Adventist Journey, contained ain interesting article by Paul Douglas, titled "Mission Emphasis Informs Treasurer's Report at Annual Council, beginning on page 6. * It reported that on a worldwide basis 35.7% of the tithe was used for pastoral support, and 29.2% was used for operational expenses. * on a basis of a worldwide median calculation, 30.7% was used for operational support and 36.4% for pastoral support. My understanding of the above leads me to conclude that we need to restructure our use of tithe, reduce our operational expenses and increase our support of pastoral ministry. I would want to work to reduce our operational expenses to no more than 50% of that provided to pastoral support . In other words, 2/3 of tithe to pastoral ministry and 1/3 to operational, at the most. It would be a good start. I do not believe that we need to have every aspect of our organizational structure on every level of the organized Church. AAs an example, I can agree that we need to have ACM and Religious Liberty represented on the Division level. But, I do not think it is needed on the GC level. Yes, I know that people can always fine "busy work" to do. Further, think that we may need to re-think exactly what is needed at the levels that we establish organizational support. IOWs, we may, at some levels, be spinning our wheels in not providing exactly the support that is needed. But, that is for another time and discussion.

Do they not see that they are aligned with Apostate Protestants who are rapidly constructing an image to the Beast?

I served as an Army Chaplain during the time when women first began to enter the military. In many ways, I think that the foundational issues that were faced by the military are also the ones faced by us in the SDA Church. While that may not become clear in what I post here, on this Veteran's Day I thought that I might post some of my thinking on this subject from both the military and SDA aspect. * I became an Active-Duty Army Chaplain at the same time as the second female Army chaplain. To this day, I am angry at how the Army as an institution, allowed her to be treated. The following link takes you to my somewhat angry comment published at the time of her death. https://www.mykeeper.com/ChaplainMajorRetBettyWPace * I served a 3-year tour on the teaching faculty of the Army Chaplain School. Generally, the students were qualified to serve as Chaplains. A Few were not. During my time there, a SDA student left the Army as it became apparent that such was not for him. We should expect the same for our females and not attribute the lack of success of one to the gender/denomination as a whole. * I was the first Army Chaplain to serve in combat in a COED unit. [NOTE: This is not the place to get into a discussion as to what you may think you have heard about World War II, and what you may think to be exceptions.] In general, the females worked harder to perform because they knew that they had more that they had to prove, than did the males. * As a result of my combat experience and my position on the Chaplain school faculty I became involved in other experiences intend to educate people as to female military members. * At an earlier time in Adventist history, I was involved in helping women who alleged to have been abused by SDA clergy to have their allegations properly heard by competent authority. * I have provided pastoral care to such women. As a result of the above, I will be the first to say that women in Adventism today have achieved a measure of success. But an engrained bias against them still exists. This is true even in the Conferences that employ female clergy. In one aspect of this problem, I see Adventist women as seemingly accepting it. I do not see it changing until some woman finds herself in a position to do something about it.

The number of military chaplains who have been killed in combat is probably little known by the American public. Arlington National Cemetery has a special section where such chaplains are buried. It currently lists 134 Protestant chaplains, 83 Catholic chaplains, 14 Jewish chaplains, and 23 chaplains who ae not listed as to religious background. This information was obtained from the following website: https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Explore/Monuments-and-Memorials/Chaplains-Hill NOTES: * Under the Geneva Convention military chaplains are not combatants and do not use weapons. * I am just one of several SDA chaplains who has served in combat. * There are some 81 Protestant and 3 Catholic chaplains who have been killed in combat but have not yet have their names entered in the memorial. * For more information see: https://www.votervoice.net/mobile/AmericanLegion/Campaigns/131063/Respond

On a regular basis, Adventist Today hosts a Zoom Conference of some religious issue. After the conference, they are posted on the Internet. Those postings can be accessed at: https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventistTodayMedia Scroll past other material to the following: ATSS Presents. NOTE: The conference on Reclaiming the Prophet is posted in a thread titled Ellen G. White and Adventism.

Hello friends, it's been a while since I've posted and a lot has happened but I want to share what's happened since I've last posted. In 2017, my wife, Denise read me a quote from a devotional called "The faith that I live by." I was searching for answers because I was tired of being a failing Christian. I had been studying the Bible and SOP for years and yet when I honestly looked at my life, there was no victory no satisfaction, just emptiness. I'm sure you all have felt that at some time or another. What I understood and experienced was righteousness by faith. I had studied and even preach on this subject in the past but I was simply passing on information without it making a change in my heart. This video is a testimony (sort of) and it captures what I was learning. It was recorded in 2023. The battery on my camera went dead so the entire sermon wasn't recorded but there's enough to understand what I was saying. it's about 29 minutes long. I do hope you are blessed and encouraged.

The Trinity in Catholic Thought During the time that Gustave has been with us, I have appreciated his participation much. A frequent theme of his has been The Trinity an important doctrine in Christianity. I thought it might be of value to us to go to an official Catholic publication on that doctrine to see what the Roman Catholic teaching actually is. My reference source is the Catechism published by the Catholic Church in Rome, English Edition. It is listed below. * I have taken my postings from pages 66 to 70 of the following book. * A 3-digit number written in Bold is the numbered teaching. * Numbers printed in [brackets] are the numbers of related teachings. They also may refer to other information. * My postings are only a partial listing of Catholic teachings. * A pdf version of this book may be accessed at: https://www.spiralgalaxy.tech/biblestudygroup/supplementarymaterials/catechism.pdf 252 The Church uses (I) the term "substance" (rendered also at times by "essence" or "nature") to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term "person" or "hypostasis" to designate the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term "relation" to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others. The dogma of the Holy Trinity 253 [2789] The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one [2789] God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity."83 [Council of Constantinople II (553) DS 421] The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e., by nature one God."84 [Council of Toledo XI (675) DS 30:26] In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85 [Lateran Council (1215) SA 804] 254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 [Fides Damasi"DS 71] "Father," "Son," "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 [Council of Toledo XI (675) DS 530:25] They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 [Lateran council IV (1215) DS 804]The divine Unity is Triune. 255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 [Council of Toledo XI (675) DS 528] Indeed" everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 [Council of Florence (1442) DS 1330] "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son." 91 [Council of Florence (1442) DS 1331] IN BRIEF 261 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 262 The Incarnation of God's Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that, in the Father and with the Father the Son is one and the same God. 263 The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (Jn 14:26) and by the Son "from the Father" (Jn 15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God. "With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified" (Nicene Creed). 264 "The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son" (St. Augustine, De Trin. 15, 26, 47: PL 42, 1095). 265 By the grace of Baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", we are called to share in the life of the Blessed Trinity, here on earth in the obscurity of faith, and after death in eternal light (cf. Paul VI, CPG § 9). 266 "Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16). 267 Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit. The reference book: Catechism of the Catholic Church: Second Edition revised in accordance with the official Latin text promulgated by Pope John Paul II, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, Copyright 1997 & 2000, 904 pages.

Hobie: The answers to your questions are more complex than the "either or" that you seem to suggest. * Ellen white clearly denied that God had dictated her written material, and she stated that her writings were in her chosen words and manner of expression. Surely, I do not have to give you a citation for that. * Her writings were often specific to an individual and not intended to apply to everyone. She told one woman that she looked good in a red dress and should have such in her closet. It would be foolish to say that such would apply to every woman. In other cases, she gave opposite advice to different people. The bottom line is that after the death of Ellen White, human SDA leaders began to elevate the authority of her writings above what she would have agreed with when she was alive. In many ways EGW was a gift from God to this developing denomination. We would not be what we are today in publishing, medical care, missions and education if it had not been for the guidance that she gave us. But, she was not given to us to determine our theology. She was not given to us to establish our doctrinal understandings. She was not given to us to establish what the Bile taught. In her personal life, over a period of years, she changed her understandings of the Biblical teachings in a number of areas. In short, she was an imperfect human.

The Adventist Review, under its various names, dates back to the earliest days of the founding of our Chruch. It has a history that ties today with our earliest beginnings. Yet, today it is often seen as of little value to us today. The following article examines its history and use today. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/a-review-of-the-adventist-review/

I posted the above because I wanted to help clarify some aspects of the conversation. IOW, I felt that some comments were not fully understood. As I read and understand the above listing of Catholic teaching, I can agree with it. I do not fully agree with some other aspects of what Gustave has said, as I understand them. But, I think that my posting of Catholic teaching lays a good foundation for a common agreement.