Acceptable reasons for sinning..

[Stan]

(This is posted at the request of a non member by email)

Is there any acceptable excuses for sinning?

If so why?

If not, why do people allow them self to sin?

[Woody]

God excuses ALL sin. His blood covers ALL.

And the excuse we can use is that we live in a sinful world. And we are therefore "sinners" that Christ died for. He expected me to sin and therefore died for them.

Having sins or not having sins ... does not change the issue of Salvation which is based on what Jesus did and not what "I" do.

So, I hope that each of us do allow ourselves to sin. Jesus does. He died that we might sin and yet still have eternal life.

[Gerr]

I don't believe there is ever any excuse for sinning. God may forgive a sin but excuse it? I don't think so.

Gerry

[David Koot]

I highly esteem my friend Redwood. I agree that we do live in a sinful world. However, we do not have to sin. Jesus died on the cross to set us free from bondage to sin. By God's grace--his empowering (dunamis as well as charis) we are empowered to resist and overcome temptation of every species, whether sins of premeditation or sins of impulse. Thank God for His wonderful gift and His help to us!

Dave

[Woody]

I don't believe there is ever any excuse for sinning. God may forgive a sin but excuse it? I don't think so.

Gerry

If I am absent from school ... I go to my parents and get an excuse. The excuse is presented to the teacher.

Parents = Jesus

Teacher = The Father in Heaven

End result .... I am excused for the offense.

[Woody]

Quote:

However, we do not have to sin. Jesus died on the cross to set us free from bondage to sin. By God's grace--his empowering (dunamis as well as charis) we are empowered to resist and overcome temptation of every species, whether sins of premeditation or sins of impulse. Thank God for His wonderful gift and His help to us!

Thank you Dave. I agree with your good post. I hope I have not given the impression to the contrary of what you have said.

We do not have to sin. We will ... but we do have the power to live fruitful lives. But what we DO has no bearing on our Salvation. Our Salvation is secured in what Jesus did.

If our Salvation was secured by our lack of sins ... then people like David and Moses would have no chance for eternal life.

So, in this sense we do have an excuse for our sins. The excuse is given by the Lord Jesus Christ. And when I say "I hope that each of us do allow ourselves to sin." .... I mean that when we sin ... I hope we know that we have a Redeemer and Saviour who gives us an excuse for our sins and in fact he acts as if they never happened and buries them in the depths of the sea .... never to return.

We can move forward in confidence ... knowing that we have been excused. We will then be renewed and committed to do better the next time. But, it will be out of love for the excuse slip given to us and the confidence that we can have knowing that when we sin ... we are excused.

[Fitzwilly]

I see a discrepancy underlying these two view points. While Gerry is not discounting the sacrifice that Jesus has made he seems to be saying that just because Jesus' love covers all sins it doesn't give me a blank check to continue intentionally sinning. Yes, we as humans sin. We try not to to differing levels of success but the idea that we should go out and sin as much as we want because we are forgiven is flawed.

[Woody]

I think that most sins are intentional. The power to not do them is there. We can take the power or decide not to take it. So, are you saying that we are somehow judged by what WE do or DON'T DO? If that is the case ... I am most surely lost.

No one here is talking about blank checks. Everyone is in danger of rejecting Christ. That can be done in many ways. If we continue to sin ... that puts us in danger of rejecting God. But the sins do not disqualify us for Heaven. Our rejecting Christ disqualifies us for heaven. SO, my continued sins DO put me in danger of not wanting Christ. But at ANY point ... Christ can come in and give me an "excuse" for all those "intentional sins" and give me Salvation if I request it.

We do "go out and sin as much as we want". Each one of us is "guilty" of doing that. But no matter how much we sin ... we always have our Saviour waiting to welcome us Home when we are ready.

Do I go out and sin knowing that I can get an "excuse". No, I don't do that personally. But I am sure there are some who have and do. And the Saviour will still forgive them and welcome them Home when they are ready.

It is advisable and best though to work our your Salvation with fear and trembling. SO, with that in mind ... sinning is not a good path. But it is a forgiveable path.

[John317]

I see a discrepancy underlying these two view points. While Gerry is not discounting the sacrifice that Jesus has made he seems to be saying that just because Jesus' love covers all sins it doesn't give me a blank check to continue intentionally sinning. Yes, we as humans sin. We try not to to differing levels of success but the idea that we should go out and sin as much as we want because we are forgiven is flawed.

If by sin we mean a conscious choice not to resist temptation to sin, then no, there is never an excuse. The Bible is clear that God always provides a "way of escape." Through the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, Christians are enabled to resist every temptation.

"Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? May it never be! ... Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!" Romans 6: 1, 15.

"My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. But if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2: 1.

Notice it does not say "when anyone sins," but "if". Sinning is never necessary.

It's not a question if God will forgive us when we confess our sins. Of course he does. But the sins change us, even those that God forgives us of. The real question is, how CAN we who died to sin go on sinning?

One of the marks that a person has been "born of the Spirit," or regenerated, is that he does not practice sin. He's a new creation in union with Christ. "Whoever has been born of God does not practice sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3: 9.

Jesus died rather that sin or disobey His Father. God wants us to be like Jesus in that way. The 144,000 are sealed with the Father's name in their foreheads. They are so settled into the truth that they resist sin even under the threat of death. "They follow the Lamb wherever He goes." "In their mouth was found no guile, for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Regards,

"John 3: 17"

[David Koot]

If by sin we mean a conscious choice not to resist temptation to sin, then no, there is never an excuse.

I recall a pastor, back in the late 70's, telling us that there is a distinction. He happened to have a problem with bad temper, in some situations. He distinguished between 'unentionally' losing his temper or getting annoyed, for example, and a 'conscious choice' to sin. He said we would keep on doing such things as getting annoyed, unintentionally, being impatient, and so forth, right up until the day Jesus appeared in the clouds of glory!

Well, the distinction is bogus. Sin is sin. Jesus came to set us free from bondage to every kind of sin, including sins of annoyance, impatience and so forth--and over every hereditary and cultivated tendency toward evil. Jesus is able. He will rescue us from the power of sin.

Dave

[Woody]

Quote:

"In their mouth was found no guile, for they are without fault before the throne of God."

I will admit to all present that I have arrived at this point. There is no guile found in me. I am without fault before the throne because Christ is my substitute. The Father looks at me as if I was perfect because it is the Life of Christ that He sees ... not the life I live and have lived.

[Woody]

Quote:

"Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned."

Steps To Christ p. 62

"So I will be your representative in heaven. The Father beholds not your faulty character, but He sees you as clothed in My perfection."

Desire of Ages p. 357

[John317]

Quote:

Sin is sin. Jesus came to set us free from bondage to every kind of sin, including sins of annoyance, impatience and so forth--and over every hereditary and cultivated tendency toward evil. Jesus is able. He will rescue us from the power of sin.

Agreed.

[Woody]

Quote:

Sin is sin. Jesus came to set us free from bondage to every kind of sin, including sins of annoyance, impatience and so forth--and over every hereditary and cultivated tendency toward evil. Jesus is able. He will rescue us from the power of sin.

Agreed.

WOW !!! I can't believe my eyes. The last time I said that "sin is sin " I got so very much attacked ... that I vowed to never say the phrase again.

I guess it depends upon WHO says the phrase.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Quote:

Sin is sin. Jesus came to set us free from bondage to every kind of sin, including sins of annoyance, impatience and so forth--and over every hereditary and cultivated tendency toward evil. Jesus is able. He will rescue us from the power of sin.

Agreed.

WOW !!! I can't believe my eyes. The last time I said that "sin is sin " I got so very much attacked ... that I vowed to never say the phrase again.

I guess it depends upon WHO says the phrase.

Who attacked you for saying it? What did you say and what was their response?

[David Koot]

Whoever attacked you, Redwood, certainly shouldn't have. The statement is but too true. Sin is sin. There is a time to call sin by its right name, and strip away excuses for it.

Dave

[Gerr]

Quote:

Well, the distinction is bogus. Sin is sin.

If God sees no difference between willful/intentional from inadvertent/unintentional sinning, then man is more righteous than God. May it never be!

The Bible gives an example: a man and his neighbor go to the woods to cut timber. If the axhead slips from the handle and kills the neighbor, is he guilty of murder? See Dt 19:4-13 to see the distinction between a premeditated vs unintentional act.

Gerry

[John317]

Whoever attacked you, Redwood, certainly shouldn't have. The statement is but too true. Sin is sin. There is a time to call sin by its right name, and strip away excuses for it.

Dave

I agree with that. No one should be "attacking" anyone for saying "sin is sin." Now they might want to add to that idea or they might disagree that every sin is just like any other sin, but of course there should be no "attacking" in any personal way. It's always best when disagreeing with people to talk about the idea and the evidence behind it rather than attacking an individual.

Ellen White herself does distinguish between sins and she says that God does not regard every sin exactly alike. The Bible distinguishes between a "high-handed" sin and a sin of ignorance. Therefore while it is true that "sin is sin," that is not to say that the sin of laying in wait to murder someone, say, is the same in God's eyes as the sin of someone's smoking cigarettes when he is unaware it's a sin.

What David said that I do agree with is that there is no excuse to sin and that God gives us the power to overcome all sin, including hereditary and cultivated tendencies toward evil.

Regards,

"John 3:17"

[Woody]

You know Dave .... This all boils down to a matter of "focus".

Do you think it is best to focus on what Christ did on this earth and is willing to place before the Father as your life and my life ... IN PLACE of our life ....

OR do we want to dwell on the life that Christ wants to cover up with His?

No matter what Christ does in our life ... it will be faulty. It will be as filthy rags before the Father. Yes, as far as salvation ...... IT IS WORTHLESS. Why ??? Because we will not allow Him to work to the Fullest.

If I focus on what Christ did ... then it will inspire me to serve Him. At least that is what has worked in my life.

In the past ... I focused on what He did in my life. But it was always falling short. That made me discouraged. It also made me focus on works. My focus on the works of God in my life made me feel like I was always out of favor. I never measured up ... because the works of God in my life were not enough.

Now ... I glory in my salvation and praise God. I glorify Him through the works that He does in my life. I do this knowing that it will never measure up ... but it doesn't have to because it is my gift TO Him. And it is not the works that HE does in my life that counts ... it is the work that He has already done that keeps and saves me. My life will never save anyone or anything. It is as filthy rags no matter how much HE is IN me.

For ME ... I will dwell on Christ and what HE DID. I will dwell on HIS life .... not mine.

[John317]

Quote:

Well, the distinction is bogus. Sin is sin.

If God sees no difference between willful/intentional from inadvertent/unintentional sinning, then man is more righteous than God. May it never be!

The Bible gives an example: a man and his neighbor go to the woods to cut timber. If the axhead slips from the handle and kills the neighbor, is he guilty of murder? See Dt 19:4-13 to see the distinction between a premeditated vs unintentional act.

Gerry

Of course, and I agree with you, and I think David would agree, too, wouldn't you, David?

[Woody]

Dave ... I am not going to get into personal issues in public. The person is here and knows about this. But he is free to have his opinion.

[John317]

Dave ... I am not going to get into personal issues in public. The person is here and knows about this. But he is free to have his opinion.

Redwood, as long as it's not a personal attack against anyone, I would hope you feel free to say what you feel you need to say.

[Gerr]

Quote:

No matter what Christ does in our life ... it will be faulty. It will be as filthy rags before the Father. Yes, as far as salvation ...... IT IS WORTHLESS. Why ??? Because we will not allow Him to work to the Fullest.

If that is true, your Christ is too small and powerless. The Christ of the Bible said, "All power has been given to Me in heaven and on earth...." Mt. 28:18.

Gerry

[carolaa]

Personally, I think everyone is missing the point, including the questioner. The point is not whether we need to sin or if there is an excuse for sin. The point is that we ARE sinners, sinful to the core. Almost every thought and action we do is sinful, and we will keep being sinful until Jesus comes to glorify us. In the meantime, if we let Him, God will work in us to smooth our rough edges and help us think and act more like Him. But we will never be anything less than sinners (covered by the Blood) until Jesus comes to glorify us. The idea of needing to sin or excusing sin is pointless, imo.

[John317]

Personally, I think everyone is missing the point, including the questioner. The point is not whether we need to sin or if there is an excuse for sin. The point is that we ARE sinners, sinful to the core. Almost every thought and action we do is sinful, and we will keep being sinful until Jesus comes to glorify us. In the meantime, if we let Him, God will work in us to smooth our rough edges and help us think and act more like Him. But we will never be anything less than sinners (covered by the Blood) until Jesus comes to glorify us. The idea of needing to sin or excusing sin is pointless, imo.

I don't believe that the Bible teaches that Christians who are walking in the Spirit have no choice but to commit sin with every thought and action. If that was true, Saint Paul would not say in Romans 6: 1, 15 that God forbid that we should continue in sin. Paul makes clear in Romans 6 and 8 that the sinful nature is not to control our lives. We are to be controlled by the Spirit. Through Christ we become slaves to God and slaves to righteousness, and are no longer slaves of sin. Romans 6: 5-14.

If those who have surrendered their lives completely to Christ and have the Holy Spirit living in them have no choice but to keep sinning, then John the Beloved would not have written his letter to the believers "in order that you may not sin" (1 John 2: 1). The Bible is very clear that regenerated believers-- those born of the Spirit-- will refrain from a life pattern of continual sin.

Consider 1 John 3: 1-9:

1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

3And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"John 3: 17"