Acceptable reasons for sinning..

[Woody]

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If people have the belief that they are always going to sin and that God will just have to keeping forgiving them for the same sins until Jesus returns, it should be no surprise to us if they keeping committing the same sins over and over and over again.

It seems that there are not many people here that are willing to say they will keep sinning until they die ... but I am one.

I WILL keep committing sins over and over. We all will do that. If we say we are without sin ... then the truth is not in us.

Let me give you an example. Ellen White ... I hate to bring her up but she is just one beloved example here ... anyway ... she had numerous sins she never fully gained victory over. One of which she spoke very strongly against was eating meat. During all the years while speaking against it ... she continued to have periods of remissions where she would eat it. She just couldn't sustain victory over her appetite.

Does that make her less of a prophet? NO. It makes her human.

But at no point do we reach some state of being able to say we no longer repeatedly do the same sin. That kind of delusion is from Satan. Do we have the power available to us?

YES.

Do we avail ourselves to it?

NO.

Do we have to in order to be "given" eternal life?

NO.

When if ever will we stop sinning?

At the Second Coming when we SEE His Face.

Should we stop trying to get victory?

NO. As long as we understand that getting some kind of victory does not in any way relate to the victory of Salvation secured by Jesus. But many are trying hard to make this link although they will not admit to it. Hey ... they may not even know what they are doing. But we have to keep "works" as FAR away as possible from Salvation.

So, because I do not have victory over repeated sinning ... SOME will say I have lost my Salvation. Hmmm. What kind of theology is that?

And actually ... knowing that you are going to keep sinning and yet are forgiven ... allows you to have the keep trying to allow God's power in your life without the fear that you might fail and be condemned to H ... Instead of fear ... you have JOY IN CHRIST. This actually makes for a far holier Christian.

[Gerr]

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It seems that there are not many people here that are willing to say they will keep sinning until they die ... but I am one.

I've said it a number of times before but perhaps it bears repeating. Believers will continue to sin ignorantly, inadvertently/unintentionally. THAT is the human condition until glorification. But ongoing intentional/premeditated/willful sins in the life of a professed believer is evidence that such a person has not experienced the new birth nor the power of His resurrection nor taken part of the divine nature. Such a person is indwelt not by the Holy Spirit but by the spirit of devils.

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I WILL keep committing sins over and over.

Is that a promise? Or I almost sense some bragging..?

Speak for yourself my friend. "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? CERTAINLY NOT! How shall we who died to sin LIVE any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Rom 6:1-4 NKJ

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If we say we are without sin ... then the truth is not in us.

The believing sinner has a PAST, so he can never say he is without win. It does not mean he has to continue in it. Read the rest of 1 John.

Gerry

[Gerr]

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But at no point do we reach some state of being able to say we no longer repeatedly do the same sin. That kind of delusion is from Satan.

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait till the judgment to see who has been following the doctrines of devils, don't we.

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Do we have the power available to us?

YES.

Do we avail ourselves to it?

NO.

And why not? Who has your heart and mind? Who is your master?

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Do we have to in order to be "given" eternal life?

NO.

"For the wages of sin is death..." Rom 6:23 NKJ

"But when a righteous man turns away from righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked men does, shall he live?.....because of them he shall die."

"...Therefore....repent, and turn from ALL your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies, " says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!" Ez 18:24,30-32 NKJ.

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When if ever will we stop sinning?

"See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you." Jn 5:14 NKJ

Gerry

[Gerr]

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So, because I do not have victory over repeated sinning ... SOME will say I have lost my Salvation. Hmmm. What kind of theology is that?

Is Cain saved? King Saul? Judas? Ananias & Saphira? If not, why not?

Gerry

[Woody]

Quote:

So, because I do not have victory over repeated sinning ... SOME will say I have lost my Salvation. Hmmm. What kind of theology is that?

Is Cain saved? King Saul? Judas? Ananias & Saphira? If not, why not?

Gerry

"No one will be lost because they "sin" ... they will be lost because they refuse pardon" (Nies)

[David Koot]

Hi Gerry,

I would like to share a little more detail from my experience in dealing with temptation. Here are some things that have helped me. When I recognize that a temptation is present, the FIRST thing I do now is go to God. If it seems ever so overpowering, I first of all turn to God in faith, remembering--and telling God--that He has brought me through everything else, and I am confident that He is able to bring me through this one as well. I look to Him, fall upon His help, count on Him to help me in my weakened condition. Sometimes I will ask God to intervene in spite of me, to take over a situation that seems too hard to handle. God hasn't failed me yet! But I think the self-surrender is important.

The second thing I do is try to recognize times when I may find myself in difficult or tempting situations. As far as possible, I will stay out of harm's way. If I can't avoid it, then I send up a prayer for God's protection before going there--wherever it is. Once again, I have watched God work in amazing ways to protect and deliver me!

No matter what the hereditary or cultivated (habit) tendency to evil, God is able to help and to deliver--if only we will trust in Him and cling to Him. To God be the glory.

Dave

[LifeHiscost]

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Just ask any thinking Christian who has been born again, this question. "If you were suddenly transported into the kingdom of Light, just the way you are in mind and deed, would heaven remain pure and without fault wherever you walked?'

The answer I am aware of is quite simple. At any given moment , I can be totally right with God. The conditions are simple. First, I recognize and accept my need of a SAvior. Secondly, I renounce sin in my life, to the extent I am aware of it. We call that repentance. Today, at this moment, I choose to follow the right. I am not hanging onto things I know to be contrary to God's revealed will. Thirdly, I accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my Substitute, to stand in my place, and His death on the cross to pay the price for all my sins.

Dave

[LifeHiscost]

it is the Holy Spirit's work to do, while our job is to surrender and trust. Repentance, or making that decision to turn away from willful sinning,....we can only do it in Christ's strength and the Holy Spirit's power. On our own, it is impossible for us to even have that desire. That's because we have a sinful, depraved nature.

Glorification is another matter. We will remain sinful human beings, covered by the Blood in our sin-permeated natures, until we are glorified into sinless beings.

The unpardonable sin is grieving, or rejecting, the Holy Spirit. This is usually a very conscious decision. The Bible says a righteous man falls seven times and rises up again. As long as we keep coming back to God, like David did, we have not committed the unpardonable sin. He is there for us and will keep working us through that sanctification process.

Amen and amen!!

"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31 NASB

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

We all practice sin over and over. We are of the Devil.

[LifeHiscost]

I will stand on the merits of Christ ... my Saviour and Redeemer.

You cannot lose your hold on eternal life while holding to the promise of Jesus redeeming grace, through His shed blood. OTOH you will suffer many pangs of the consequences of sin that would be unnecessary were you to claim His promises for victory over the flesh.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 KJV

It is the sense of condemnation that drives some from closeness to the Savior and turns them from desire to exert effort for obtaining righteousness. However that condemnation comes not from our Father or the Son.

"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matthew 12:37 KJV

"I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life. And he does not come into judgment [does not incur sentence of judgment, will not come under condemnation], but he has already passed over out of death into life." John 5:24 AMP

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Which makes me wonder if people who are living in persecution for their faith have a quicker road to sanctification...

The witness of the many in this day and age who are strong in their faith, despite the struggles they face at the hands of antagonists, seems to indicate that truth.

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5:10-12 KJV

Regards!!

[LifeHiscost]

But my point was simply that there are people who will be saved who have not reached that level of sanctification.

Probably many more than most fundamentalist Christians are willing to admit. I think it has much to do with the false doctrine that there is some work we must do to be saved. Work will be done, even in the bodies of those who are direct antagonists of the Lord. However the ones who at last enter the Kingdom of Heaven with great reward will be those who have learned to submit to the power of the Holy Spirit, willingly and ungrudgeingly, both in deed and in word.

"Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow." James 1:17 NASB

That would include the enviable gift of enjoying the work of Christ when it raises the ire of those opposing that work to the point of persecution.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5:11 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

In fact, I would go further and say that even our thoughtless, inadvertent sins have a reaction. Sin always hurts us and often it also hurts the people we care most about.

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36 KJV

Regards!

[olger]

Thanks for the Scriptures, LC. I like the story of Manasseh and his conversion.

oG

[Woody]

Yes ... I also would like to thank you for this scripture ...

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But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36 KJV

But the answer is clearly articulate by a good commentator ... Ellen White . She says that we will not have to account for any of the sins that we commit .... because the Son's life is placed to our account. We will not be held responsible ... HE will.

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"It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." Steps To Christ p. 62

Praise God we are "viewed" as perfect even though we are not.

[LifeHiscost]

We have no righteousness of our own....

....now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness.

Steps To Christ p. 62

Praise God we are "viewed" as perfect even though we are not.

[Neil D]

You're right Bravus. It happens every time.

Diehards I guess. Aren't they from Sears?

and here I thought they had their own company...."Everyready"....

[Neil D]

Gerry and Redwood

I have reviewed your positions and I think that you both are on the same page...it is just simantics that you differ on...

Gerry, you did a great job showing that there is a willful sinning that is not covered by Christ. These are mostly refered to the 10 Commandment...all though I suspect cussing is different than taking the Lord's name in Vain...You also showed that there is inadvertant, et al. sinning...If you look at Redwoods examples of sinning, they come under that definition.

Redwood shows quite nicely that there is hope in all areas of sin...Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.. For that, there can be gratitude from the sinner which affects the sinner. Even to the point of changing his behavior. But Redwood is also correct that the Christian is plagued with innumerable sins that takes time to heal from...to the point where unless Jesus comes, we will die in that state of continual struggle against that indavertant et al sins...

[Woody]

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"Even the righteousness that Jesus gives us is as filthy rags."

Whether or not it was you or another that made that statement, in light of this quote by Ellen White, if one is to believe it as true, how can we see a gift from God as "filthy rags?

Good Question. I appreciate this.

I don't believe I stated it this way. But, I haven't looked back either. What I do and have consistently said is that What Christ does IN me is as filthy rags towards my salvation. WHY? Becuase I will never allow enough of it to merit Salvation. That only happens when HE comes at the Second Coming and we SEE His face. Then we are changed. And we will THEN be fit for Heaven.

The ONLY thing that gives me Salvation is His Robe of Righteousness that covers all of my life and the acts of life. What I have allowed Him to do in my life is not and will not be enough. I must have the ROBE.

[Woody]

Quote:

Redwood shows quite nicely that there is hope in all areas of sin...Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.. For that, there can be gratitude from the sinner which affects the sinner. Even to the point of changing his behavior. But Redwood is also correct that the Christian is plagued with innumerable sins that takes time to heal from...to the point where unless Jesus comes, we will die in that state of continual struggle against that indavertant et al sins...

Hey Neil .... I appreciate what you did here. Thanks.

On the more light side which I know you appreciate also .... I would hate to think that Gerry and I would ever agree with anything. HOW could I survive with that thought. I do need to be able to argue with him. So, please don't bring us too close together.

[olger]

?

[LifeHiscost]

Becuase I will never allow enough of it to merit Salvation. That only happens when HE comes at the Second Coming and we SEE His face. Then we are changed. And we will THEN be fit for Heaven.

The ONLY thing that gives me Salvation is His Robe of Righteousness that covers all of my life and the acts of life. What I have allowed Him to do in my life is not and will not be enough. I must have the ROBE.

I think I begin to see where you're coming from. This is the way I hear you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Just the way He gave us perfect bodies, meant to last eternally, the way we treat them makes them unfit to take to the kingdom so God gives us new glorified bodies that have no residue of sinful use.

And I suppose that could be applied to the righteousness He gives as a gift while still in this fallen world. I'm of the opinion though, that the righteousness of Christ is characteristic of teflon as evidenced by these texts.

" For You light my lamp; the LORD my God illumines my darkness." Psalm 18:28 NASB

" Do not rejoice over me, O my enemy Though I fall I will rise;Though I dwell in darkness, the LORD is a light for me." Micah 7:8 NASB

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV

Not being restricted by time, as we mortals are, God often speaks of things eternal as if they already are. And this can be confusing to many. Take, for instance, this text.

"....and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die." John 11:26 NASB

To we mortals we often still look at people in the grave as dead. However to those who cling to the promises of God, we know His promises are true. Therefore, in language I can understand,

"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:3 NASB

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:11,12

The question that comes to my mind is, "When the resurrection occurs, what is going to be resurrected. The old body? I understand we're going to have a new body. That leaves one thing left to raise, that which is eternal that went into the grave with us, the righteousness of Christ that He gave us while our present body was still alive. The only ones that won't be raised to eternal life at the first resurrection are those who refused the righteousness of Christ while they were alive on this earth.

Now there are some who appear, before Jesus comes, to have that righteousness but don't. Some are identified here.

"...for not knowing the righteousness of God, and their own righteousness seeking to establish, to the righteousness of God they did not submit." Romans 10:3 YLT

"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Matthew 7:22,23 NKJV

Not wanting to leave on a negative note like that, let me leave with this thought.

"However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them." John 6:37 NLT

Regards!

[pacunurse30]

Hmmm, interesting topic. I'm gonna sit back and marinate on the posts for a bit.

[David Koot]

Indeed. It is an interesting topic. One which seems to this student rather straightforward, but there are a whole lot of variations and permutations! Understanding the dual aspects of alien righteousness (imputed righteousness) and imparted righteousness certainly would seem very important.

Dave

[LifeHiscost]

?

Satyr maybe?

"Love....is ever ready to believe the best of every person....it endures everything [without weakening]." 1 Corinthians 13:7 AMP

Merry Christmas everyone. LHC