Musing from an adventist about adventists....

[bygjymbo]

What differentiates our "God loves you" message from Benny Hinn's or Ron Parsley's or Jimmy Swaggert's or Jim Bakker or even the Pope's?

Ours is backed with the Bible truths.

I heard "Jesus loves you" my whole life from the priests and nuns who taught me, along with all their lies. Didn't stop me from obeying the devil.

Wasn't till I heard the TRUTH about "life after death" and the TRUTH about "hell" and TRUTH about "the Sabbath" and the TRUTH about "the ten commandments" and the TRUTH about "the Second Comming of Jesus" that I fell in love with God.

[Neil D]

What differentiates our "God loves you" message from Benny Hinn's or Ron Parsley's or Jimmy Swaggert's or Jim Bakker or even the Pope's?

Ours is backed with the Bible truths.

So, a radio station is to divide the country with it's brand of Christianity......Why?

If a radio station can play the music that is catchy, that people like to hear, music that identifys with feelings, how easy would it be to utter truth to them and for the HS to cause them to search it out for themselves?

Don't you guys get it?????

TALK IS CHEAP. Everyone is soured on decisive talk. Look at the politics forum....Look at any religion forum....No one gathers people together..not people from differing denominations...

To unify, let them listen to music that allows them the catharic of grace, forgiveness, and mercy....Let them hear a Father's redeeming love...Let them hear the Holy Spirit in thier souls, and they will come....

They will listen to those who have a message in a song with a guitar....How come you guys don't hear that????

[fccool]

We hardly have any ministries that reach out to the "Biblically Illiterate". Almost all of the Adventist media and print are speaking "religiounese" that will bounce off unsaved like a rubber ball.

Remember that love for Sabbath and 10 Commandments comes as a result of acceptance and indwelling of the Spirit. Not the other way around. If we can do it without Christ... then we are not that lost after all.

We need much more ground to cover outside of our circle of safety. There are so many ministry outlets... yet we hardly ever consider taking these outside of the talking TV/Radio heads. How about a well done movie? Now, that would be an idea? How many HQ Adventist productions do we see out there?

Why don't we see any? If Hollywood can do it for money, can we do it for God?

[LifeHiscost]

Yes, you recite them well, John....but now comes the two questions....do you understand them for you, and does your action reflect that understanding?

"...even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." John 3:14-17 NKJV

"Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives." Romans 3:23 AMP

"...for every one -- whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.'" Romans 10:13 YLT

"A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!" Proverbs 15:23 KJV

"Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—" Revelation 14:6 KJV

This is happening now by the body of Christ around the World. Seems like the right season. God will separate the chaff from the wheat.

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

I have never met a Christian that felt he was free to go out and do as he pleased.

I think if Christians actually felt this that there would be many more murders.

This old mantra must be unique to ultra conservative Adventists. I just don't see it in my community.

Perhaps you have not met any Christians who have had God's Law written in their heart and therefore don't wish to murder anyone.

"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel

after that time," declares the LORD.

"I will put my law in their minds

and write it on their hearts.

I will be their God,

and they will be my people. " Jer 31:33 NIV

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:2 KJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Let the HS guide the individual and trust that the HS knows what He is doing

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 KJV

"...and go, enter in unto the Removed, unto the sons of thy people, and thou hast spoken unto them, and hast said unto them: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: whether they hear, or whether they forbear.'"

Ezekiel 3:11 YLT

Blessings!

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Let the HS guide the individual and trust that the HS knows what He is doing

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 KJV

"...and go, enter in unto the Removed, unto the sons of thy people, and thou hast spoken unto them, and hast said unto them: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: whether they hear, or whether they forbear.'"

Ezekiel 3:11 YLT

Blessings!

The Holy Spirit uses the words of all Christ's followers to bring conviction to people's hearts. Those who tell other Christians not to talk about their faith and their beliefs are working hand in glove with God's enemy. Clearly God's word doesn't call on us to be silent.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

"For Christ sent me not to baptize' date=' but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 KJV

"...and go, enter in unto the Removed, unto the sons of thy people, and thou hast spoken unto them, and hast said unto them: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: whether they hear, or whether they forbear.'"

Ezekiel 3:11 YLT

Blessings! [/quote']

The Holy Spirit uses the words of all Christ's followers to bring conviction to people's hearts. Those who tell other Christians not to talk about their faith and their beliefs are working hand in glove with God's enemy. Clearly God's word doesn't call on us to be silent.

I suppose that you are right. But it would be nice if some were more silent than others. Then perhaps the Holy Spirit could be heard.

[LifeHiscost]

The Holy Spirit uses the words of all Christ's followers to bring conviction to people's hearts. Those who tell other Christians not to talk about their faith and their beliefs are working hand in glove with God's enemy. Clearly God's word doesn't call on us to be silent.

Those who spend their time sitting in criticism of another's efforts to share the Word do not share in the efforts of the body of Christ.

"...and most of the brethren in the Lord, having become confident by my chains, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.

Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice." Philippians 1:15-18 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Why keep our blessings to ourselves? Just because some SDA's don't get jazzed over the state of the dead or are counting the hours till sundown on Sabbath, doesn't mean that others don't find an incredible blessing in the Bible teachings.

The doctrines, rightly understood present a very loving God.

Every command given by God reveals His love. The fact that many see no love in all of His pronouncements reveals a lack of the knowledge of God. And it's true, you can't give what you don't have. If all they have is music to offer and they wish to offer it in the name of Jesus, it would be good to do the best they can for Him.

I would just caution that it would be good not to set up a golden calf while playing the music.

Blessings!

[LynnDel]

God blesses action. As long as we are moving ahead with the gospel commission in a sincere and prayerful effort to be reaching out to those who will respond, there will be results. When we don't make an effort for fear of rubbing someone the wrong way, that's when it becomes time for the rocks to cry out.

When I was in academy, I remember the academy church had an evangelistic series. We students universally agreed that it was a terrible presentation. The preacher had a hillbilly accent and approach; he was too dogmatic and a bit corny. He dressed and combed his hair like someone out of the 1950s. We thought the whole thing would be a failure. But many people came out from the community, and many made decisions for Christ. We were all astounded.

A few years ago a book was published by one of our presses - I forget the title - but I think it was something like The Man Who Couldn't Die. It was an inspiring book, but what struck me the most was his whole approach to outreach was to ask people if they knew the ten commandments, and if they knew about the Sabbath. He had amazing results from his efforts.

Our pastor's family in Missouri became believers when an SDA came to their door and gave his opening spiel: "Do you know about the Mark of the Beast?" They invited him in, and he told them his belief about the Mark of the Beast being Sunday keeping. Can you imagine such an approach working? It is hard to imagine, but in this instance it did.

I learned from that. I learned that we need many approaches to meet the needs and heartstrings of different people. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, you know. Neil is allergic to violin music, but others love it. Others are allergic to contemporary music, but they love the old hymns (I know several in my generation who left the church years ago, and when they come back to visit, they want to hear the old familiar hymns). Some are reached by messages of God's love and forgiveness. Some are reached by proof of prophecy being fulfilled. Some are reached by logic. Some are reached by calls to change their lives. Let's embrace and support all efforts, even when our own approach would be entirely different.

[Neil D]

God blesses action. As long as we are moving ahead with the gospel commission in a sincere and prayerful effort to be reaching out to those who will respond, there will be results. When we don't make an effort for fear of rubbing someone the wrong way, that's when it becomes time for the rocks to cry out.

[snip]

I learned from that. I learned that we need many approaches to meet the needs and heartstrings of different people. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, you know. Neil is allergic to violin music, but others love it. Others are allergic to contemporary music, but they love the old hymns (I know several in my generation who left the church years ago, and when they come back to visit, they want to hear the old familiar hymns). Some are reached by messages of God's love and forgiveness. Some are reached by proof of prophecy being fulfilled. Some are reached by logic. Some are reached by calls to change their lives. Let's embrace and support all efforts, even when our own approach would be entirely different.

Ok, I can live with this principle being expressed.

Now, limit your tools to radio. And, being a church, you want to reach the most people in the most positive way posible. You have to understand, the people that you are reaching out to, DO NOT SHARE YOUR VALUES. Some are christian, many may not be. What is the best mannor, style, or way to reach them?

What do most of these people like that radio can provide?

Once you answer that question, that is going to be YOUR mannor in reaching them.

If they like rock and roll, provide contemporary christian music. If they like country music, you provide contemporary country christian music. This is how you reach the majority of your listening audience. Hopefully, the radio will help them to grow in the grace that Christ provides to people everyday.

What I don't want this radio to do, is to supply something for Adventist culture, all in the name of "evangelism".

[LynnDel]

I agree that what you are criticizing is the programs that focus more toward inreach and not so much toward outreach. 3ABN has a huge SDA stay-at-home audience, so they are filling a need that may not necessarily be evangelism, but nevertheless has a purpose, and from some of the comments here, has also fulfilled an evangelistic niche even when we don't see the format as fitting our personal style. Maybe what we need is simultaneous programming for the various generations and cultures.

The searching heart will find truth and salvation no matter what the trappings.

[phkrause]

That's why I made a sarcastic comment to Neil that instead of complaining he should start his own station. But if you look at all the Adventist outreach TV or Radio stations they have all do the exact or basicly the same thing. And they can't help that even though they are trying to reach non SDA's they are attracting more SDA's. Than he mention's about baptism's in are church's, where are they coming from? Well other than the young in our church, who are having there own evangelistic meeting's, almost every new member in our church have come in through the outreach of 3abn, IIW, VOP, etc. And that includes SDAs that have left the church and are now coming back because of 3abn etc. So I would say that they (all the different media outlets) are doing what people are looking for just like you are saying. All people are reach in different ways. You when I was a teen, youth, young adult all the evangelistic meetings I ever went to had at least 70% of the church members attending. Even the meetings that Mark Finley is having right now I bet you that most attending are church members. I've always felt that any kind of outreach was for member and nonmember alike. I guess I should stop now.

pk

[LynnDel]

I felt for years that my attendance at evangelistic meetings, especially when I was in my pre-teens and teens, helped a great deal in strengthening my own knowledge and faith in Christ. I'm very glad my parents didn't keep me at home by making the excuse that I had school the next day.

[LifeHiscost]

I learned from that. I learned that we need many approaches to meet the needs and heartstrings of different people. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, you know. Neil is allergic to violin music, but others love it. Others are allergic to contemporary music, but they love the old hymns (I know several in my generation who left the church years ago, and when they come back to visit, they want to hear the old familiar hymns). Some are reached by messages of God's love and forgiveness. Some are reached by proof of prophecy being fulfilled. Some are reached by logic. Some are reached by calls to change their lives. Let's embrace and support all efforts, even when our own approach would be entirely different.

Now that's the type of preach'n I like. Let's not beat up on the ear because it doesn't see the same way the eye does. What's important is whether we're striving to extol the virtues of the Head.

"...but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called." 1 Corinthians 1:24-26 NKJV

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5 KJV

Blessings!

[bygjymbo]

I noted that these committee members have already worked the church, got into the attic and are doing some remodeling. They are going to put up a radio station, broadcasting with 3ABN radio [and they claim, video]...

[rush4hire]

.....I have listened to 3 ABN....I consider it one of the more conservative, with Amazing Facts even more on the conservative side, adventist entertainment industrys that we have...

[Liz]

Why do I want to give my expertise in building up a radio station that will entertain adventists rather than bring someone to the gospel.....?

So, Neil, have you decided on what you are going to do yet?

[fccool]

It's not about entertainment. It's about a message. It's not going to be loved by the world, but it does feed those who seek spiritual food.

If Christ's message is preached in woods... does it really make a sound? Apostles just stood up and preached in public places. Just like that... stood up and preached. Not a 30 minutes certmons, or prophecy seminars. Probably 1-2 minutes message.

Here's some exceprts from interview with POD.

FamilyChristian.com: How do you respond to people who criticize you for playing with mainstream bands or appearing on MTV?

Wuv: For us, we didn't grow up in the Christian environment or anything like that. A lot of Christian kids who do like P.O.D. did grow up that way and a lot of times they don't understand why we're on the Ozfest or why we're playing with Korn and why we're on MTV. You know what, we're not trying to play for the Christian. It's been almost 10 years that P.O.D.'s been for the people that don't know God. To get to this point where God puts us in front of millions of people that don't know God, that's a dream come true and it's an act of prayer for P.O.D.

What God's doing with P.O.D. is what He's been doing for 10 years and if they don't get it, they don't get it. We're not for them anyway; we're for the people that don't know Him. We get a lot of criticism from the Christian side because of the way we look and because of the people we play with. You know what, if you don't get it then turn your heads because we're really not for you anyway. We're just doing what God's always put on our hearts to do. We love God and all we can do is tell people how much we love Him. And if there's something wrong with that because we don't look the way that they look, then they've got their eyes on us and not God.

FamilyChristian.com: How do you share your faith with your fans?

Wuv: A lot of times, we're hanging out before the show, we're hanging out after the show, we're hanging out in the middle of the show. We're hanging out the whole time. Our whole night consists of talking to kids. Those kids come every night and ask us questions about God. Sometimes they want to know answers and sometimes we don't have them. All we can do is just share with them what God's done in our life and how much joy He's brought us. That's basically how God uses P.O.D. A lot of times, God uses us to witness to the band [we're on tour with]-seeing our lives on the road is totally different than they way they live. It causes curiosity and makes them ask questions.

When people see a stark difference they can't help but ask why there's a difference.

That's just the way it is. They want to know why you're not partying it out like them and we're like, "Dude, we've already done that." I'm all about my wife and my kids. God has blessed us enough to get out and play in front of more kids and that's cool.

FamilyChristian.com: What is P.O.D.'s mission?

Wuv: I think what God did last year was the best mission we could have possibly been on. To get in front of millions of people and just basically rock a show, and at the same time have them see what a Christian is and being able to relate and not feel like they can't be one. When they see P.O.D. they see us padded up, they see us rocking out, having fun, they're like, "Dude, if they can love God and have fun, then I can love God and have fun too." God's the King of fun. He's the one that made everybody's personalities. He's the one that created music, He's the one that created the way we act and the way we look. A lot of times the world sees the stereotypical Christian, all stiff like a cardboard cutout. P.O.D. just shows them the real deal. You can look any way [and] God will meet you where you're at.

What do you think about that approach? These people have opportunity to share their faith with millions, and it's down to life approach. They are showing them and they are impacting people for better. While if you started preaching Sabbath to people who yet to know God... they will turn away. They can't understand God before knowing who He is first.

If we did step outside of the bubble without sacrificing what we believe... the world would be a better place. I think we shoot ourselves in a foot when we dictate what evangelism should look like. There are different stages to understanding and responding. People might not be saved by talking to POD band members... but they might ask questions and begin to see things differently.

Granted that POD views are not without theology problems... but they don't concern themselves with theology. They concerned with telling people about God's love through their music and that there is a better way to live and they can do it where they are. Once people pass that step... it's up to God to direct them further... not POD.

[Neil D]

The real dynamics of putting up a radio station are these-

What is the radio station for?

1] Preaching the Gospel

2] supporting the Adventist church

3] secular station

Does the church have the courage to say that it is for the support of the Adventist message, all the while saying that it is "Preaching the Gospel" [iOW, the motivation all the while is supporting the SDA lifestyle, not supporting the evangelistic message of a risen Savior to the masses]?

I have seen this once too often, and the message get off track. It is seen by the public as a form of lying. I know I would see it that way. And I dont want to support ANY radio station if the church does not have a clear directive....

[John317]

What is the radio station for?

1] Preaching the Gospel

2] supporting the Adventist church

3] secular station

Does the church have the courage to say that it is for the support of the Adventist message, all the while saying that it is "Preaching the Gospel" ...

For me the Adventist message is primarily the Three Angels Messages, which includes the everlasting gospel.

Our church is not only to preach the "gospel" as it is viewed by evangelicals, but the entire Adventist message. Some limit the gospel to what Christ did on the cross 2,000 years ago. But the gospel is much more than history. The gospel-- the glad tidings of Christ-- is the power of God that leads to salvation.

Our message would be incomplete without uplifting the downtrodden law of God, which means we need to teach about the Sabbath and about how there has been an attempt to change God's law. That means we must teach people about the great controversy between Christ and Satan and how the controversy will end. It means explaining the Bible's teaching about being prepared for Christ's return. I think all of these things need to be communicated to the world by radio.

Of course it doesn't mean it should be told all at one time. It should be done little by little, and using different formats.

[Neil D]

And how do you see that message getting out to the world?

Is thru music?

Is it thru story telling?

Is it thru literally preaching?

Most [non-Adventist] people see music as a good thing. They enjoy a fast beat, and a good message, but mostly a fast beat with a good sound...preferably rock/jass.... There are a few country with drums and guitars.

Now, if our church did that, there would be some who would have a heart attack!

If you made the station a more story telling, and talking, who is gonna decide whether which stories would be acceptable to go out before the public? And would the story HAVE to have a happy ending? Would it necessarily have a bad ending?

While storys are good, as a secondary entertainment, this would be a good thing...Like a book reading for an hour a day or some other form of entertainment. But 24/7/365 and you would leave this radio station exclusively for the blind or nearly blind.

And while Adventists like preaching, most others can not stomach preaching for more than ONE day. So, what are you going to do for the other seven days to attract people to the church/radio station? If people are not attracted to the station, how will the message get across to the people and then how will you get the message across to them?

It is my opinion, that a radio station plants seeds, and churches and their environments woo people into the church....For that, you need an attractant... music seems the most likely canidate....

What kind of music would attrached people to the church that is in keeping with the spirit of our faith?

Other ideas?

[John317]

And how do you see that message getting out to the world?

Is thru music?

Is it thru story telling?

Is it thru literally preaching?

I would try experimenting with different kinds music, drama, some comedy routines, story telling, dramatic Bible readings by excellent readers, conversations between two or three speakers, brief Bible studies, etc., in addition to good preaching. Limit the preaching to only 15 minutes.

[Taylor]

Wow, must say, John that is pretty open minded...love it!