Moderators John317 Posted January 15, 2009 Moderators Posted January 15, 2009 Neil, did you ever take college classes in the Spirit of Prophecy, or the life and ministry of Ellen White? I understand you went to PUC. Great school and wonderful place, wasn't it? I was there in 1973-74, and took courses in Ellen White taught by Robert Olson, who, a year later, went on to be head of the EGW estate. He lives not too far from me now. I used to go to the estate branch in Loma Linda and visit with James Nix. They have most of her material in Loma Linda. My question is a serious one because I am trying to find out what your background is as far as Ellen White is concerned. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 16, 2009 Moderators Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 I'm opposed to making Ellen White's writings a test of faith, and that's one of the reasons: I believe that belief in the SOP must come from study and cannot be based on an "order" to believe. I could not agree with you more. I'm sure we have many things in common, including beliefs. I already know we both share a love of the great literature of Russia. My favorite of the Soviet period is Isaac Babel. He was the Russian Hemingway. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
olger Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 People (some Adventists) often portray our pioneers as legalistic zealots. This offends me slightly, for three reasons. 1) The wonderful grace of God was shed abroad on a small group of people kneeling on tear-stained soil. Legalists? It was the legalists who gave up quickly when they saw Jesus wasn't going to return to give them credit--thus they left the Movement. 2) Elder Stockman, Joseph Bates, James White and a hundred others loved the Lord with a tenderness that shames us by comparison. Imagine working in a dimly lit shop for .25 per day (Harmon family), then putting that money into the Lord's treasury, so precious souls could hear the good news--the everlasting gospel. HMS Richards, and a thousand others also kept their hand on the Advent plow, secure in the Lord they loved. But they were legalists--they deserve our sympathy. 3) The Great Arrogance that attends much of the western world, sets themselves to judge the maturity of the pioneers --unaware that they are setting themselves up for a great fall. In our Laodicean pulpits, we strengthen the hands of the wicked and weaken the hands of the righteous. It is one of the strong ironies of the age if we (I include myself here) denigrate our poor pioneers for being stuck in the ditch of legalism (were they?) while decorating the walls of our own ditch with the glitter of worldliness. But they were legalists—they deserve our scorn. I would like to be as one of them. `oG Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
fccool Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 There's nothing wrong with high standards. Many denominations invite such. The problem is when one's high standards become "measure of Spirituality", and thus resulting in the spiritual hierarchy and classification. Let's face it, we are in the same boat, no matter where your standards are set. We are in need for forgiveness, we are in need of understanding and grace. All of us fall out from time to time without us wanting to. Let's remember the one who we claim to follow too. You hardly see Jesus rebuking those "worldly people" you describe above. Quite the opposite. He was rebuking the self-proclaimed perfectionists who thought they are so much better than "spiritually lazy" gentiles. Let's not make the same mistake... in both tone, action, and mentality. Quote
Neil D Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 There's nothing wrong with high standards. Many denominations invite such. The problem is when one's high standards become "measure of Spirituality", and thus resulting in the spiritual hierarchy and classification. Let's face it, we are in the same boat, no matter where your standards are set. We are in need for forgiveness, we are in need of understanding and grace. All of us fall out from time to time without us wanting to. Let's remember the one who we claim to follow too. You hardly see Jesus rebuking those "worldly people" you describe above. Quite the opposite. He was rebuking the self-proclaimed perfectionists who thought they are so much better than "spiritually lazy" gentiles. Let's not make the same mistake... in both tone, action, and mentality. There is nothing as satisfying as to see something that you agree with.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. Â George Bernard Shaw Â
bygjymbo Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 There are so many truths throughout her writings. ESPECIALLY when she steps on people's toes. It's sad to see how many would rather comdemn her writings than learn from them. Those who corrupt plain teachings simply because they refuse to abide, or realize that they SHOULD abide, practice another kind of legalism... like a contract lawyer with a sharp pencil, crossing out and changing those facets that disagree with their personal agenda, trying to gain the upper hand... Quote
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Rob What was the last book of hers you read?? I haven't read one of her books in about 18 years. Quote
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Quote: I think it's obvious that Bible does not contain the whole truth, but only the essential ones that God deems to be a priority. Huh? No ... a double Huh? The Bible does not contain the whole truth? Where do you get YOUR truth from? See what the cult of EGW will do to a person's mind? Quote
Stan Posted January 16, 2009 Author Posted January 16, 2009 I would recommending reading one... somethings like Acts of the Apostles or Prophets and Kings. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Â
Moderators John317 Posted January 16, 2009 Moderators Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Soon every possible effort will be made to discount and pervert the truth of the testimonies of God's Spirit. We must have in readiness the clear, straight messages that since 1846 have been coming to God's people. What is meant by "Testimonies"? The word "testimonies" may mean different things. "The Testimonies" means the Testimonies For the Church, the 9 volume set of books. There are times when "the testimonies" also refers to the books, or writings, or messages that God has given. "The truth of the testimonies of the God's Spirit," means the witness or evidences of God's Spirit." It may also mean the writings of Ellen White, depending on context. The same words, testimony or testimonies, may also refer to what Ellen White has spoken concerning what God had shown her. There are other ways but this pretty well covers it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
fccool Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I would recommending reading one... somethings like Acts of the Apostles or Prophets and Kings. I'd recommend something more practical... like Adventist Home. Quote
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen I would recommending reading one... somethings like Acts of the Apostles or Prophets and Kings. I'd recommend something more practical... like Adventist Home. No thanks.... Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 16, 2009 Moderators Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen I would recommending reading one... somethings like Acts of the Apostles or Prophets and Kings. I'd recommend something more practical... like Adventist Home. You like that book? Me too! I just bought a second copy for marking up. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 EGW has great statements, but she also contradicts those statements with very legalistic ones. When I attended the local SDA church they used the legalistic ones. John, to this day, cannot give me a direct answer on her legalistic quotes. He changes the subject. How can I respect that? Rob Quote
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: fccool I'd recommend something more practical... like Adventist Home. You like that book? Me too! I just bought a second copy for marking up. Another book to roast veggie links with.... Rob Quote
fccool Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 2] Your quote also infers EGW has more light than the Bible, but this can't be: The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401] Rob, I don't think he did. He was referring to my comment of Bible not being an encyclopedia that contains every answer in the world. Thus he reference that verse... that we know in part(not everything). I don't think it means that E.G. White is somehow esteemed above Bible. But, why do you ascribe to all or nothing mentality? Do you perceive everything that she wrote to be false? If not, then learn from what is true and point out the falsehood. Above all, there's always a less confrontational way of conveying your beliefs. I can see that you are passionate about yours, but there's no reason to build up a stumbling wall for other. As Paul writes: 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.... ... 19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 16, 2009 Moderators Posted January 16, 2009 EGW has great statements, but she also contradicts those statements with very legalistic ones. When I attended the local SDA church they used the legalistic ones. John, to this day, cannot give me a direct answer on her legalistic quotes. He changes the subject. How can I respect that? Rob Rob, the truth is that it seems clear to me that you sometimes think something is a contradiction when it isn't. What would happen if I thought that the Bible contains a lot of contradictions? I would not try to find ways of harmonizing statements but would simply assume there's just one more contradiction. I wouldn't consider any other explanation. We've "talked" before about her "legalistic" quotes before. Besides, what is the purpose and cause for talking about "all her errors"? Isn't it in order to show that we can dispense with her? Or at the very least, not take what she says seriously? Or have the attitude of "who cares", like some have? Let's suppose I believe that she is full of errors. So I read a few pages of something by her that doesn't make sense to me. Will I pray that God will help me to understand it and bring my thinking into conformity to the writings of God's prophet? No. I will do as you do, and yearn to throw it out and forget it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Do you perceive everything that she wrote to be false? If not, then learn from what is true and point out the falsehood. If you refer to all my posts I've quoted her often, but I cannot accept this Traditional view of EGW. That's where the book burning comes in (not that I've ever done that). I'd do it just to put the holy Joes in their place. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 16, 2009 Moderators Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 You like that book? Me too! I just bought a second copy for marking up. Another book to roast veggie links with.... Rob That's almost funny, except that we're talking about something really serious. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 what is the purpose and cause for talking about "all her errors"? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 16, 2009 Moderators Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 what is the purpose and cause for talking about "all her errors"? To prove that she is fallible and that ultimately we must go to the Bible to establish truth. Quote: Isn't it in order to show that we can dispense with her? No! I already know she is fallible. I have known that since at least 1974. I have never said she is not fallible. And I already spend hours studying my Bible every day. About 10 hours in the Bible for every hour in Ellen White's writings. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Where I agree strongly with EGW is on, 1] The state of the dead 2] The "in Christ" motif 3] The law Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 16, 2009 Moderators Posted January 16, 2009 How about on the "great controversy theme"? (I don't mean the book.) Don't you just love the Desire of Ages? The origin of sin in heaven? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 How about on the "great controversy theme"? (I don't mean the book.) Quote
olger Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 There are so many truths throughout her writings. ESPECIALLY when she steps on people's toes. It's sad to see how many would rather comdemn her writings than learn from them. Those who corrupt plain teachings simply because they refuse to abide, or realize that they SHOULD abide, practice another kind of legalism... like a contract lawyer with a sharp pencil, crossing out and changing those facets that disagree with their personal agenda, trying to gain the upper hand... Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
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