Is It Possible to Live Without Sinning?

[Gerr]

Those who believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.

James said that the devils also believe. Will they be saved also?

[Woody]

Prayers work change in us personally. We in turn can witness to others and promote a change in them. That is the way prayer works to my understanding.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Those who believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.

James said that the devils also believe. Will they be saved also?

If they live on this Earth ... yes. We on this earth are in an experiment for the Universe to observe. Jesus came and died for all sinners on earth. Those beings who are not of this earth do not qualify for God's salvation.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

James said that the devils also believe. Will they be saved also?

If they live on this Earth ... yes. We on this earth are in an experiment for the Universe to observe. Jesus came and died for all sinners on earth. Those beings who are not of this earth do not qualify for God's salvation.

The Apostle John says that the devil and his angels were cast down to this earth. So yes, they have become inhabitants of this planet! So then, they are all going to be saved too?

Are you saying that everyone who ever lived in this planet will be saved?

[Woody]

Come on Gerry. You know the answers to your questions. What game are you playing? Just come out with it. Say what you mean. Get to the point.

[Gerr]

No games, friend. You have charged me with misrepresenting your views in the past. I intend to avoid being guilty of that by drawing out your own answers.

[Woody]

Okay.

[Michael144]

Let me get one thing perfectly clear: Are you of the belief that ALL will be saved? That none will be lost?

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess....

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

How many did the Father give Him Gerry.

Ask yourself this question: Do I really believe or do I just have a form of Godliness.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

How high are the heavens above the earth Gerry.

Your belief is of old. That God cannot save all men therefore when you refer to scripture it is invalid because you do not believe the word. How many did the Father give Jesus?

The Church (all denominations) got it wrong and as Adventists this should not surprise us.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Believe like the heathen Centurion did Gerry.

Put this with John 17:2

John 10:27-31

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29. My Father, which gave them me[all flesh/John 17:2], is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30. I and my Father are one.

31. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Lord we claim the faith of the Centurion now and ask that you heal our worst enemy. As the Centurion taught us Lord, speak the word only and they will be saved. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

[Michael144]

Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

49. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

50. But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.

51. But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium.

52. And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

[Dr. Rich]

The answer to the question; "Is it possible to live without sinning?" is YES! If not--the Jesus would be a liar. Paul's writings would have one believe that you can't live without sinning. In fact, Paul said there is no law or standard to obey anymore because it is impossible for anyone to obey God's covenant and besides, God will not kill you if you do not obey (you can't) because His love and grace is so great.

Have not we heard this before? Didn't the snake tell this same thing to Eve? Didn't he tell Eve that God would not kill her if she disobeyed?

This alone should be enought evidence to show those who are honest with themselves that Paul was a false apostle--following Satan as though Satan was Jesus. Was not it Paul who said "even if an angel sent from heaven gives a gospel other that what we preach, let them be damned"? Didn't an angel from heaven give the information to John to write down called "Revelation"? Show me any grace in this 'gospel'--(Revelation)?

[Woody]

It is clear that we are sinners and unable to keep the law. If we could keep it ... we would not need the life and death of our Saviour. It is one of the oldest sins ... to think that we are equal to the Most High. This was the sin of Satan .... long before the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve.

[Gerr]

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The New King James Version. 1982 (Re 20:4-10). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

The New King James Version. 1982 (Jn 17:12). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

'nuff said.

[Gerr]

It is clear that we are sinners and unable to keep the law. If we could keep it ... we would not need the life and death of our Saviour. It is one of the oldest sins ... to think that we are equal to the Most High. This was the sin of Satan .... long before the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve.

Where is the, "It is written" for your position?

In case you missed my previous post, let me quote this again in another version:

Everyone who habitually commits sin, also habitually commits lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. And you know absolutely that that One was manifested in order that He might take away our sins; and sin in Him does not exist. Everyone who in Him is constantly abiding is not habitually sinning. Everyone who is constantly sinning has not with discernment seen Him, nor has he known Him, with the result that that condition is true of him at present. Little born-ones, stop allowing anyone to be leading you astray. The one who habitually does righteousness is righteous, just as that One is righteous. The one who is habitually committing sin is out of the devil as a source, because from the beginning the devil has been sinning. For this purpose there was manifested the Son of God, in order that He might bring to naught the works of the devil.

Wuest, K. S. (1997, c1961). The New Testament : An expanded translation. First published in 3 vols., 1956-59, under title: Expanded translation of the Greek New Testament. (1 Jn 3:4). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.

7 Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life* is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers* does not belong to God.

Tyndale House Publishers. (2004). Holy Bible : New Living Translation. "Text edition"--Spine. (2nd ed.) (1 Jn 3:7-10). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.

7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you the wrong way. Christ is righteous. So to be like Christ a person must do what is right. 8 The devil has been sinning since the beginning, so anyone who continues to sin belongs to the devil. The Son of God came for this purpose: to destroy the devil’s work.

The Everyday Bible : New Century Version. 2005 (1 Jn 3:7-8). Nashville, TN.: Thomas Nelson, Inc.

[BobRyan]

I have an "it is written".

1John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you SIN NOT".

1Cor 10 "NO Sin has overtaken you but such as is common to man and God is faithful who will NOT ALLOW you to be tempted beyond that which YOU are able"

Romans 6 "What then Shall we sin because we are not under the law? God forbid!" This is where we are told that IF we keep claiming "slavery to sin" we are no longer slaves to righteousness - but to sin.

There is no such thing as "Gospel of slavery to sin".

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I like that, "gospel of slavery to sin."

Thanks, Bob.

[Woody]

I reject the Gospel of Works .... I accept the Gospel of Grace.

[Michael144]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I like that, "gospel of slavery to sin."

Thanks, Bob.

Have you stopped sinning yet Gerry?

[Woody]

You know ... I keep askin' Gerry that same question but without success. He seems to avoid the answer. And if God was really workin' in him you would think he would give God some credit.

[Woody]

TU

Ready for the skewering?

(The subject never dies, there is no change in replies! Maybe we just like to read our own posts over and over!)

Yes. But we need a review so that it is readily available.

HA HA HA HO HO HO HE HE HE

[Michael144]

Again

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Ecclesiastes 4:15 I considered all the living which walk under the sun, with the second child that shall stand up in his stead.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I like that, "gospel of slavery to sin."

Thanks, Bob.

Have you stopped sinning yet Gerry?

One thing is for sure: if we think it's utterly impossible, it will never happen. We can go through life excusing ourselves for our sins and never overcoming them, but the Bible says the end of that is death.

Read Romans 6 and 8 and 1 John 1, 2 and 3. There's a big difference between sin reigning in the life-- being a slave to sin-- and being a slave to God and to righteousness.

It's not a question of being absolutely sinless or never committing a sin again. It's a question of who your Lord is-- whether Christ or some other.

Jesus' command: "You be holy, for I am holy." God alone can do this in us, but we have to be willing to be made willing.

[cardw]

The problem with this premise is that there is no way to determine if one has stopped sinning (unless you happen to be a follower of Wayne Bent and the Lord our Righteousness church. He basically has told them they are no longer sinning.)

They are basically saying that we are in this period of time of the latter rain. And they were set up by the belief system established by their study of Ellen White and the shame based early Advent message. You can see clearly that Wayne Bent has gone mad and has taken everyone that has held on to his leadership with him.

This is basically a no win situation since one can sin in so many ways both intentionally and unintentionally. And there are so many ways to sin depending on the standard one has to follow and these standards tend to get more difficult as one can come up with more rules to follow. And one is taught to listen to those things that are "hard" and "not pleasing to the ear." Life becomes filled with these crippling views of life and the peace of the spirit is no where to be found.

This is the very reason that I have come to believe that Ellen White and the SDA church is harmful. There is no way to improve one's nature based on fear and continual self evaluation. This is simply another way to be self centered. And it brings misery and slavery with it.

Keeping score of one's sins is a certain path to mental illness. And when moderate SDA Christians give this brain washing message lip service they are promoting some of the most devious and harmful ways of viewing life. I would state this stronger if I could.

When you are in this belief system you have no idea how much of the joy of life is drained from the life and if one takes this stuff seriously you are doomed to live a life of fear. Often the way one tries to be free from this fear is fostering feelings of self righteousness and this is expressed rather often within the messages of condemnation disguised as standing up for what is right. The life of "goodness" is done as an act with no real heart and soul. If you notice many Adventists come off as flat and devoid of passion. This is because all passion is drained with these belief systems.

Fortunately there are those who don't take these things seriously, but they are waiting within the writings of Ellen White.

[Gerr]

I reject the Gospel of Works .... I accept the Gospel of Grace.

So do I. But I also reject the "gospel of slavery to sin."

[Gerr]

You know ... I keep askin' Gerry that same question but without success. He seems to avoid the answer. And if God was really workin' in him you would think he would give God some credit.

I have already answered that question a few times in different threads including this one. If you missed it, let me answer it again.

In the context of 1 Jn 3:4 which says: Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

New American Standard Bible : 1995 Update. LaHabra, CA : The Lockman Foundation, 1995, S. 1 Jn 3:4

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; jsin is lawlessness

The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. 1 Jn 3:4

All who indulge in a sinful life are dangerously lawless, for sin is a major disruption of God’s order.

Peterson, Eugene H.: The Message : The Bible in Contemporary Language. Colorado Springs, Colo. : NavPress, 2002, S. 1 Jn 3:4

Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience

International Standard Version New Testament : Version 1.1. Print on Demand ed. Yorba Linda, CA : The Learning Foundation, 2000, S. 1 Jn 3:4

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness indeed,sin is lawlessness

Biblical Studies Press: The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press, 2006; 2006, S. 1 Jn 3:4

1prac•tice also prac•tise \ vb

prac•ticed also prac•tised; prac•tic•ing also prac•tis•ing [ME practisen, fr. MF practiser, fr. ML practizare, alter. of practicare, fr. practica practice, n., fr. LL practice, fr. Gk praktik, fr. fem. of praktikos] vt 14c

1 a : carry out, apply practice what you preach

b : to do or perform often, customarily, or habitually: practice politeness;

c : to be professionally engaged in: practice medicine

2 a : to perform or work at repeatedly so as to become proficient: practice the act

b : to train by repeated exercises practice pupils in penmanship

3 obs : plot vi

1 : to do repeated exercises for proficiency

2 : to pursue a profession actively Merriam-Webster, Inc: Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. Eleventh ed. Springfield, Mass. : Merriam-Webster, Inc., 2003

law•less adj

12c

1 : not regulated by or based on law

2 a : not restrained or controlled by law : unruly

Merriam-Webster, Inc: Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. Eleventh ed. Springfield, Mass. : Merriam-Webster, Inc., 2003

So have I stopped practicing sin? Have I stopped living a life unrestrained by law? Have I stopped indulging in sin? YES, I HAVE. AND I RATHER SUSPECT YOU HAVE TOO!!! Do I still make mistakes, do wrong? YES! But practicing to make mistakes/do wrong? DEFINITELY NOT!!!

WHO GETS THE CREDIT? Inspite of your implication that somehow I'm giving myself the credit, I have in this thread, mentioned this at least 2x: "The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning; from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed: to destroy the works of the devil."

Biblical Studies Press: The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press, 2006; 2006, S. 1 Jn 3:8

And for good measure so that there could be no misunderstanding as to who gets the credit:

"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."

New American Standard Bible : 1995 Update. LaHabra, CA : The Lockman Foundation, 1995, S. Jn 15:5

"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."

New American Standard Bible : 1995 Update. LaHabra, CA : The Lockman Foundation, 1995, S. Php 2:12-13

ALL BY GRACE, NOT MY WORKS!!!

[Gerr]

[quote name=""]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I like that, "gospel of slavery to sin."

Thanks, Bob.

Have you stopped sinning yet Gerry?

See my response to Redwood above.