GreatLakesGramma Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 As the subject of nudity & modesty has come up, I'd like to share something that gave me a new perspective on the subject. I am a big fan of conversion stories and missionary stories. So when "End of the Spear" came out, I pre-ordered the movie. I also saw the documentaries, one made by Elizabeth Elliot after she and Rachel Saint went to live with the Waodani, who had killed her husband and Rachel's brother, and the other with Steve Saint, made after "End of the Spear." I also bought the book by Steve Saint with the same title, telling the whole story. The Waodani wore no clothing, except for G-strings worn by the men only, to protect their most tender body parts as they ran through the jungles full of thorns and such. The women wore only a thin string tied around their waist, not grass skirts and tops as in the movie. Yet they had a strong code of modesty, which had to do with demeanor and behavior. When the three Waodani, one young man, a young woman, and an older woman, who was actually there to chaperon the younger two, visited with the missionaries on the sandbar, the missionaries gave names to the three, though the two groups could not understand each other very well. They called the young woman Delilah, because of the provocative way she acted toward the young man. Even the missionaries could tell that kind of immodesty when they saw it. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
Key Guy Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Guilt, the gift that keeps on giving. Guilt is definitely a good thing. Just ask the pope. You can make a lot of money selling candles and beads. If the Puritans have a reputation of placing too much guilt on each other, then guilt can be a bad thing. Satan uses guilt to drive us away from the cross, convincing us that we aren't good enough to be His children. There has to be a balance in this realm, just like so many others. Quote
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 If we confess our sin and still feel guilty, that can be a test to show whether we really believe God or not, when he says: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 Notice it does not say "if we do a good enough job of confessing our sins", "if we confess our sins and humiliate ourselves", or "if we confess our sins and stop feeling guilty." Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Quote: I am a big fan of conversion stories and missionary stories. If you like mission stories ... I bet you would love reading the AFM magazine. My wife and I always rush to read it. We just finished the latest one last night. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
melvin mccarty Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood I would like to see that scripture also mel. I remember a scripture...something about the man and his wife being "naked and not ashamed." Too confronting for Mrs White and other Adventist pioneers living at a time when even pianos had their legs covered...hence elaborate stories about "robes of light" and other imaginary "coverings." If you take the Bible at face value as it reads' date=' nakedness was not evil or sinful (and hence did not have to be covered) until sin entered the world. aldona[/quote'] The One who created the whole system of sexual activity in animals and even plants is evidently not bashful about talking about it in scripture. How much of our prudishness and shame is actually justified?...mel Quote
Parade Orange Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Well im glad i dont struggle with looking at nude girls and getting turned on! wheew! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Cosmin M. Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Well im glad i dont struggle with looking at nude girls and getting turned on! wheew! Are you a girl or a guy? I have had problems when I saw nude girls in public. Happened a few times before. Florida. Quote
olger Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 We're not sure... Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Dr. Shane Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 For those wanting to know where the Bible says that Adam & Eve were "clothed" with light check out Genesis 3:7 & 8 "the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons... And He said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?" They were obviously clothed with something that prevented them from seeing their nakedness. Or maybe some biological phenomenon happened to their eyes when they sinned. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Moderators Bravus Posted March 8, 2009 Moderators Posted March 8, 2009 Or it was just that nakedness was not a source of shame in their state of innocence. The 'clothes of light' are an EGW addition, IIRC. Quote Truth is important
Cosmin M. Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Have you guys ever thought that not everything EGW might have said to have come from God? Maybe it was sorely her opinion. Not saying this based on what you said Bravus, just a thought. Also, I have to go. I am tired and I am going to be. It is 10 here. Quote
Dr. Shane Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 If what you say is true, and I know you would never make anything up just to make a point, then I guess society has gotten much, much worse than I imagined since the last time I checked. I was listening to the Glen Beck show on the radio a couple years ago when he had a stripper on. She said that the hardest clients she has to deal with are the women that come in with their husbands or boyfriends. Their husbands or boyfriends pay for a lap dance for their wives or girlfriends and during the lap dance the wives/girlfriends do a lot of grabbing in places that most male clients dare not go. Most strip clubs only allow women in if the are accompanied by a make - that prevents prostitutes from using them to pick up clients. When I mentioned what was discussed on the Glen Beck show to my secretary she told me that her brother and sister-in-law go to strip clubs together! Apparently some couples use that as a form of foreplay. I think Olger is probably right when he says pornography is an 80% men and 20% woman thing. A big reason for that I think is that few women are going to consume pornography alone. So they virtually don't consume internet porn at all. Men will use pornography alone and probably make up close to 100% of the internet porn consumers. I think for women consumers of porn the porn is not the "main event." It is worked into a romantic encounter. Instead of just going out dancing, having dinner and wine before going home and ending the night with a romantic encounter, they watch a porno on TV to warm them up before finishing the night. I have known women (from AA) that buy porn for this very reason and have thought to myself "They don't know what they are feeding." Women bringing porn into their home to spice up their love life with their husbands can start their husbands on a porn addiction that is going to take him someplace she does not want him to go. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Dr. Shane Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Or it was just that nakedness was not a source of shame in their state of innocence. The 'clothes of light' are an EGW addition, IIRC. Nakedness was just a symptom of the problem. That is true. But since God then made clothing for them Himself, it is clearly evident that He didn't intend for them to go prancing around naked. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Dr. Shane Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Maybe I just have a twisted mind, but I have wondered how Adam & Eve made love before they sinned. If they didn't know they were naked - as it appears they didn't - how did that love-making thing work? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Robert Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Interesting Guy. You know ... God made us nude. That has to count for something. Yeah, but that was before the fall. If I'm walking down a beach and a woman is dressed modestly the flesh will remain quite, but if topless the flesh will direct my eyes to her, well....Since the flesh wants what it sees (it's self-centered - bent to self) it will tempt my mind to lust and we know where that can end up.... Quote
Robert Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: Aubrey God made man with a countenance of light. It was not until man sinned that nakedness was revealed. Scripture reference please......mel Gen 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. Something changed... Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted March 8, 2009 Moderators Posted March 8, 2009 While we're talking about the general issue of temptations for the sexes, I believe women in general are more aroused by relationship, which does protect them somewhat from the over-sexed nature of our world, but they are also perhaps more audio than visually oriented, and hence might use things like phone sex lines rather than visual-medium pornography. We all have our sources of temptation and our struggles, and none are worse or better than others in terms of our own lives (but the phone lines are more imagination than reality for the performers so arguably less harmful in that sense). Quote Truth is important
Robert Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Dwelling on guilt is a bad thing. Yes, past sins that you have acknowledge to God should not be dwelt on. However we also need to realize that we aren't measuring up to the full demands of the spirit of God's law. This isn't so much a guilt trip, but a reminder that we need Christ's robe of righteousness. Hence the warning in 1 John 1:8 Quote
Robert Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: Bravus Or it was just that nakedness was not a source of shame in their state of innocence. The 'clothes of light' are an EGW addition, IIRC. Nakedness was just a symptom of the problem. That is true. But since God then made clothing for them Himself, it is clearly evident that He didn't intend for them to go prancing around naked. TU teehe Quote
Robert Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Maybe I just have a twisted mind, but I have wondered how Adam & Eve made love before they sinned. If they didn't know they were naked - as it appears they didn't - how did that love-making thing work? Maybe when that time came the light fell away....? Quote
Parade Orange Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 im a dude! Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Well im glad i dont struggle with looking at nude girls and getting turned on! wheew! LOL! I guess you do have some advantages, don't you! Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
olger Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 I have known women (from AA) that buy porn for this very reason and have thought to myself "They don't know what they are feeding." Women bringing porn into their home to spice up their love life with their husbands can start their husbands on a porn addiction that is going to take him someplace she does not want him to go. Right on, oG Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
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