Moderators Gerr Posted March 12, 2009 Moderators Posted March 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: SivartM Paul was apparently quoting only part of the law. Jesus summed up the law as "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself." That's the whole law. Unless you think idolatry is fine and dandy... Faith is the NT method for showing love towards God. One way to show this love per Jesus: "If you love me keep my commandments." And Paul said: "Therefore my beloved, flee from idolatry," 1 Cor 10:14 ESV. Jesus: "you shall worship the Lord your God and him only you shall serve." Mt 4:10 ESV. Both of the above commandments are part of the first table. And these are in the NT. Quote
Robert Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 One way to show this love per Jesus: "If you love me keep my commandments." Quote
Robert Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I would like to quote a retired SDA Pastor: It is the entrance of sin that destroyed the significance of the Sabbath rest, since sin is rebellion against God, in exchange for self-dependence [Romans 1:21; Philippians 2:21]. Thus, when sin separated us from God [isaiah 59:2], no longer did His Sabbath have any significance. [The Dynamics of the Everlasting Gospel, By E.H. “Jack” Sequeira] Quote
Robert Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I would like to quote a retired SDA Pastor: It is the entrance of sin that destroyed the significance of the Sabbath rest, since sin is rebellion against God, in exchange for self-dependence [Romans 1:21; Philippians 2:21]. Thus, when sin separated us from God [isaiah 59:2], no longer did His Sabbath have any significance. [The Dynamics of the Everlasting Gospel, By E.H. “Jack” Sequeira] Here's more info: The fall destroyed the Sabbath’s significance, since sin is turning from God-dependence to self-dependence. Isa. 59:2 says that your sin separates you from God. Gen. 3:19 is a good text. What did God say to Adam after he fell? From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. Before that, God worked for Adam. When you read about the Garden of Eden, it says it was God who planted the garden for Adam. Now God says, From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. That means, “You will have no rest.” So the fall destroyed the significance of the Sabbath. The creature/Creator relationship was always to be a relationship of total dependence. God never created man to live independent of Him. That’s why Jesus said, Without Me you can do nothing. Now we must apply this also in terms of salvation. I am the vine, you are the branches. Abide in Me and I in you. That was always. So when Adam sinned he departed from God-dependence. In order to restore the Sabbath rest to man, Jesus came to work again. He said “I must work the works of my Father.” What was the work that God gave Him to do? To save us. [study of Hebrews, By E.H. “Jack” Sequeira, Hebrews 4:1-13 (Part 3) – Christ, the True Sabbath Rest] Quote
Robert Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I'll tell you why you can't find any command to keep the 4th commandment as found in the OT - it's because the issue of the Sabbath is future. Jack hints: Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. The word “sealed,” what does it mean? I want to give you an example of what it means. Turn to Romans 4. Remember, Paul taught that circumcision does not contribute at all towards our salvation. So one of the questions that the Jews were coming up with is, “If circumcision does not contribute towards salvation, why did God give it to Abraham, and through him to the Jews? Why?” And Paul tells us why, it was a seal. Look at Romans 4:11: And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised.... When did he have righteousness by faith? Before he was circumcised. So please remember, circumcision did not give him righteousness by faith, it did something else; it sealed what he already had. ...So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. In other words, circumcision did not give righteousness by faith, but it sealed something that he already had. In other words, it confirmed, or it authenticated, what he already had. [color:#000099] Now, please keep this mind, because I believe, folks, in the last days, the seal will be the Sabbath. The Sabbath doesn’t give us righteousness by faith, it only seals something that is already there. The meaning of circumcision and the meaning of Sabbath are synonymous. Circumcision simply means that we remove unbelief and totally rest in Christ Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 12, 2009 Moderators Posted March 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo One way to show this love per Jesus: "If you love me keep my commandments." "The whole law....". Remember that part? In the NT anytime the commandments are referred to it means the last 6. That is a given. Quote: And Paul said: "Therefore my beloved, flee from idolatry," 1 Cor 10:14 ESV. Jesus: "you shall worship the Lord your God and him only you shall serve." Mt 4:10 ESV. Both of the above commandments are part of the first table. And these are in the NT. But nothing about the 4th.... First, you claimed the only law referred to in the NT were the last 6 commandments. When you are shown that idolatry and having no other god is also mentioned. Now you are claiming that because the 4th is not specifically mentioned that therefore it is no longer applicable? If it cannot be shown that taking the Lord's name in vain is found in the NT, is it therefore now ok to use the Lord's name anyway anyone wants to? Lame excuse! James says, break one and you've broken them all. If there's nothing more said about the ONE commandment that starts with - REMEMBER, does the silence mean it's no longer in force? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO, if there's nothing that specifically nullifies it, that means it's still in force!!! Yep, the devil would have nothing better than to do away with the ONE commandment that starts with REMEMBER because it is the ONLY commandment that tells everyone who it is that has the authority to tell creatures how to live, and the only commandment that tells creatures WHO to worship. Take away the 4th, and you can argue about the other nine, "Sez who?" Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 12, 2009 Moderators Posted March 12, 2009 I would like to quote a retired SDA Pastor: It is the entrance of sin that destroyed the significance of the Sabbath rest, since sin is rebellion against God, in exchange for self-dependence [Romans 1:21; Philippians 2:21]. Thus, when sin separated us from God [isaiah 59:2], no longer did His Sabbath have any significance. [The Dynamics of the Everlasting Gospel, By E.H. “Jack” Sequeira] Sorry, but I don't find Sequeira among the prophets. Now that man is even more apt to forget, and with all the godless evolutionists telling people they descended from slime and monkeys, on the contrary, he needs the Sabbath more than ever as a reminder as to whom he should worship!!! Quote
Aliensanctuary Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 The Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast are related in one respect: They're both permanent marks placed on humans to identify their chosen masters following the 2nd Resurrection and the broadcast of the 3 Angel's Messages to the entire planet. The Two Witnesses play a part in broadcasting the Three Angel's Messages, I believe. Too bad for those bearing the Seal of God. They will be hunted down without mercy and beheaded or otherwise killed. Following the 3rd Resurrection, during the Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats, all those who chose death rather than accept the Mark of the Beast will receive their Eternal Reward of life foreverafter. Those with the Mark of the Beast will be destroyed, including their life records. After their life records are destroyed, there will be no hope of future resurrection of the Mark of the Beast People because there will be nothing left of their memories to re-insert or DNA codes to re-construct their bodies. Thus, their destruction is indeed eternal. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Planey Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 What 3rd resurrection? Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Robert Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 James says, break one and you've broken them all. Quote
Robert Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 he [Jack] needs the Sabbath more than ever as a reminder as to whom he should worship!!! Ex 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: [why?] ... 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. The 4th commandment doesn't even hint at worship. Then why, according to the commandment, does one rest? Because God rested from His perfect creation! Compare also with Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, [why?] because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. You, according to the law, are to rest because God's work of creation was complete and perfect. No sin marred planet earth. However, the Sabbath lost is significance after the fall because no longer is it a sign of God's perfect work and rest. That's why in the 2nd set of tablets you see it changed from representing a perfect creation to a perfect redemption, for the Jews, in their deliverance from bondage. Quote
Robert Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 a reminder as to whom he [Jack] should worship!!! Whenever the issue of the Sabbath-Sunday is brought into focus, one’s attention is immediately turned to the Sunday keeping Christians versus the Sabbath keepers. This, I believe, is not the real issue. There are today many sincere Christians who are fully resting in Christ for salvation but are Sunday keepers. They are keeping the wrong day for the right reason. Likewise, there are many sincere Sabbath keepers who believe their Sabbath keeping will save them. They are keeping the right day for the wrong reason. Both need correction and this the Holy Spirit, who is to lead us into all truth, will do. When this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations [Matthew 24:14]; it will polarize or divide the human race into only two camps — believers and unbelievers [1 John 5:19], those who are fully resting in Christ and those who have ultimately rejected Christ. All who come under the banner of Christ will in the end-time worship the Lord of the Sabbath and their Sabbath keeping will be the outward sign or seal of the righteousness they have already received by faith, just as circumcision was to Abraham “a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised” [Romans 4:11]. [Jack] Quote
True-believer Posted March 12, 2009 Author Posted March 12, 2009 Thankyou Robert for the above post you posted... I got a lot from it... Thankyou. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Moderators Gerr Posted March 12, 2009 Moderators Posted March 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: SivartM Paul was apparently quoting only part of the law. Paul, who is inspired, didn't say this. He said "the WHOLE law...." Look at the way Paul & others use the word, "law - nomos". It could used for some regulation within the sacrificial system, the sacrificial system itself, the 10c, or just principle in general. You are forcing the word "whole" in the same way someone is forcing the phrase "all flesh" to construct a whole theological system that posits salvation to ALL, believers and unbelievers alike. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 12, 2009 Moderators Posted March 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo James says, break one and you've broken them all. Look at the context, Gerry.....It references the last 6. So are you saying the first 4 commandments do not apply while the last 6 do? Pure nonsense! Quote: Idolatry, according to the NT, is anything outside the real gospel. Text please? Quote: Hence there's only one way to heaven and that is through Christ alone. OF COURSE!!! Quote: Any other method is idolatry. You are confusing self-righteousness/salvation by works with idolatry! Quote: Quote: the devil would have nothing better than to do away with the ONE commandment that starts with REMEMBER because it is... the only commandment that tells creatures WHO to worship. Sorry, the 4th commandment is not about worship. Nothing...I mean nothing is linked to worship in the 4th commandment. Read it for yourself. Maybe you don't see it, but read the commandment carefully. And if you still don't see worship in it, then perhaps you will see in the same way those who FIRST received the law saw it. [color:red]"You shall keep my Sabbaths arveence my satuary: I am the LORD, Lev 19:30 ESV. And they were to stand every morning, thanking and praising the LORD, and likewise at evening, and whenever burnt offering were offered to the LORD on Sabbaths, new moons, and feast days..." 1 Chron 23:30,31 ESV. From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. Isa 66:23 ESV. The people of the land shall also worship at the doorway of that gate before the LORD on the sabbaths and on the new moons. Ez 46:3 NASB. And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Acts 13:42 KJV Quote: The 4th commandment of the moral law commands folks to rest on the 7th day because God's creation is perfect and complete. That is no longer true. So then, what was the point of God giving the Sabbath commandment thousands of years AFTER the fall if what you are saying is true?[quote[ Hence the Sabbath has lost it's significance. Man's thoughts, not God's. Quote
Robert Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Thankyou Robert for the above post you posted... I got a lot from it... Thankyou. TU Quote
Robert Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Text please? Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people [the Judaizers] are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Turning to a different gospel is rejecting Christ. That's idolatry. Quote
Robert Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Sorry, the 4th commandment is not about worship. Nothing...I mean nothing is linked to worship in the 4th commandment. Read it for yourself. Lev 19:30 ESV. 1 Chron 23:30,31 ESV. Isa 66:23 ESV. Ez 46:3 NASB. Acts 13:42 KJV Sorry...that's not the context of Ex chapter 20. You're reaching at best.... Quote
Robert Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jack Hence the Sabbath [context: of creation] has lost it's significance. Man's thoughts, not God's. No, actually God's thoughts breaking through the traditions of men.... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 13, 2009 Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Text please? Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people [the Judaizers] are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Turning to a different gospel is rejecting Christ. That's idolatry. That's YOUR interpretation. Nothing said about idolatry! Quote
Robert Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Anyway, there's no command under the NT/NC to keep the Sabbath or else.... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 13, 2009 Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Text please? Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people [the Judaizers] are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Turning to a different gospel is rejecting Christ. That's idolatry. You're reading into the text something that is not there. Nothing said about idolatry. Reaching out at its best? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 13, 2009 Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Anyway, there's no command under the NT/NC to keep the Sabbath or else.... And there has never been a command to abandon it!!! "REMEMBER....." Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 13, 2009 Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Man's thoughts' date=' not God's. [/quote'] No, actually God's thoughts breaking through the traditions of men.... Jack's thoughts + your thoughts = God's thoughts? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted March 13, 2009 Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Lev 19:30 ESV. 1 Chron 23:30,31 ESV. Isa 66:23 ESV. Ez 46:3 NASB. Acts 13:42 KJV [/quote'] Sorry...that's not the context of Ex chapter 20. You're reaching at best.... Here are some non-SDA comments: The Ten Commandments are an excellent summary of 10 divine rules for human conduct. They might be called rules of (1) religion, (2) worship, (3) reverence, (4) time, (5) authority, (6) life, (7) purity, (8) property, (9) tongue, and (10) contentment. Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. (1983-c1985). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures (1:139). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books. b. The first commandment (20:3) 20:3. The first of the Ten Commandments is that Israel was to worship the one true God. Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. (1983-c1985). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures (1:139). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books. 20:4-6. The worship of God was to be spiritual, not material Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. (1983-c1985). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures (1:139). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books. 20:8-11. A day of solemn worship of God should be kept weekly. Keeping the Sabbath Day . . . holy means to separate it, the seventh day, from the other six as a special day to the Lord. People are to work in six days and worship on the seventh. Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. (1983-c1985). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures (1:139). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books. Dallas Theological Seminary is Baptist. 14:7, Worship God. 1. The first commandment concerns the object of our worship, Jehovah, and him only (v. 3) Henry, M. (1996, c1991). Matthew Henry's commentary on the whole Bible : Complete and unabridged in one volume (Ex 20:1). Peabody: Hendrickson. 2. The second commandment concerns the ordinances of worship, or the way in which God will be worshipped, which it is fit that he himself should have the appointing of. Henry, M. (1996, c1991). Matthew Henry's commentary on the whole Bible : Complete and unabridged in one volume (Ex 20:1). Peabody: Hendrickson. 4. The fourth commandment concerns the time of worship. God is to be served and honoured daily, but one day in seven is to be particularly dedicated to his honour and spent in his service. Henry, M. (1996, c1991). Matthew Henry's commentary on the whole Bible : Complete and unabridged in one volume (Ex 20:1). Peabody: Hendrickson. "The Sabbath was a day set aside for rest and worship. God commanded a Sabbath because human beings need to spend unhurried time in worship and rest each week. A God who is concerned enough to provide a day each week for us to rest is indeed wondersul. To observe a regular time of rest and worship in our fast-paced world demonstrates how important God is to us, and it give us the extra benefit of refreshing our spirits. Don't neglect God's provision." LAB The second commandment has this promise to those who make no substitutions/additions/subtractions but obey: 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Ex 20:4-6). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society. 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Re 22:18-19). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.