BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 If we are going to listen to the Bible - then we listen when it says NOT to turn away from prophetic utterances (1Thess 5:20). We listen when it says that Prophecy will be needed all through time - "until the church reaches the measure of the maturity of the stature that belongs to Christ" (glorification) as we see in Eph 4. We listen when it says that we will always welcome God's prophets "hear them". We listen when it says that "prophecy is a sign to believers" 1Cor 14 and that WE are to "desire earnestly.. that you may prophesy". In fact it is pretty hard to claim that we want to listen to the Bible and NOT God's prophets -- when the bible does not endorse that course of action. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 Joseph Smith Quote Truth is important
BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 If you're going to make a case for Smith - you will need more than first name and last name. I would think that the 1John 4 test of a prophet idea that you suggested earlier would have been helpful just then. Or maybe that was your point as well? Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
LifeHiscost Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 But if God wants to inform us of something and we chose not to listen because we feel we have enough information then we are really ignoring Him, the One who loves us. I believe that there will be more dreams and prophesy coming, but remember that the only way to know if this stuff is true is to test them with the Bible. If they say something that is not contradicting what we know is true and we can see that what they are saying points us "in the right direction", toward Him and away from self, then we can be sure it is from God. I personally have no desire to ignore God, but OTOH I have no desire to follow after "cunningly devised fables" either. "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. "Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. " Joel 2:28-30 NASB Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 In fact it is pretty hard to claim that we want to listen to the Bible and NOT God's prophets -- when the bible does not endorse that course of action. The same is true of Ellen White's work - because in 2SM 57 she herself predicts AND "condemns" the future rejection of God's prophets by Adventists! in Christ, Bob Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 I just mentioned Joseph Smith because you (Bob) seemed to be saying that we reject any prophet at our peril. He was a balancing case - we accept false prophets at our peril, and reject true ones at our peril. So some level of checking and discernment is required to check which is which. I'm not passing any judgement on Ernie Knoll either way because I haven't done that checking, and maybe you have. But I can't agree with attacking anyone who reserves judgement on a prophet until they have ascertained his or her truth. Quote Truth is important
LifeHiscost Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Joseph Smith "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."Matthew 10:16 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 I just mentioned Joseph Smith because you (Bob) seemed to be saying that we reject any prophet at our peril. He was a balancing case - we accept false prophets at our peril, and reject true ones at our peril. So some level of checking and discernment is required to check which is which. I'm not passing any judgement on Ernie Knoll either way because I haven't done that checking, and maybe you have. But I can't agree with attacking anyone who reserves judgement on a prophet until they have ascertained his or her truth. "The king's favour is toward a wise servant" Proverbs 14:35 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Planey Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 we accept false prophets at our peril, and reject true ones at our peril. Being in total agreement with Bravus on this, I would like to pose the question: Which is likely to be the more dangerous course, to ignore the output of a true prophet, or to accept the teachings of a false prophet? Does the Bible give any advice on this question? Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 In Matt 12:31-32 Christ tells the Pharisees that they are in danger of comitting the unpardonable sin in their claim that the power behind Christ's work was "the devil". In Matt 11 Jesus testifies that the Jews claimed that John the baptizer "had a demon". Ellen White claimed that people accused her of the same thing. Jesus was very clear that blasphemy against the Son of Man COULD be forgiven - but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I have never argued - "accept all true AND false prophets" as my posts to this point will demonstrate. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: BobRyan In fact it is pretty hard to claim that we want to listen to the Bible and NOT God's prophets -- when the bible does not endorse that course of action. The same is true of Ellen White's work - because in 2SM 57 she herself predicts AND "condemns" the future rejection of God's prophets by Adventists! in Christ, Bob Regards! Indeed - the clarity in both scripture and Ellen White is so consistent - and what is more we have an entire quater of the SS telling us not to turn our backs on the work of God! Blessings! in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 I just mentioned Joseph Smith because you (Bob) seemed to be saying that we reject any prophet at our peril. He was a balancing case - we accept false prophets at our peril, and reject true ones at our peril. So some level of checking and discernment is required to check which is which. I'm not passing any judgement on Ernie Knoll either way because I haven't done that checking, and maybe you have. But I can't agree with attacking anyone who reserves judgement on a prophet until they have ascertained his or her truth. In your initial post -- I pointed out that the "Test the Prophets" comment you made was solid Bible teaching found in 1John 4. To my knowledge I have not objected to anyone testing the cases of the OP or even reserving judgment until they have done a test for themselves. However I HAVE claimed to have done a lot of my own due diligence on this topice. I stand behind that. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. "Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. " Joel 2:28-30 NASB Regards! Amen! And this week's lesson starts off with Amos 3:7!! 7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators Gerr Posted March 16, 2009 Moderators Posted March 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Bravus we accept false prophets at our peril, and reject true ones at our peril. Being in total agreement with Bravus on this, I would like to pose the question: Which is likely to be the more dangerous course, to ignore the output of a true prophet, or to accept the teachings of a false prophet? Does the Bible give any advice on this question? Graeme Very interesting question! Since the Bible has given us everything we need for salvation, I think that accepting the teachings of a false prophet would be more dangerous. Whatever a true prophet have to say, would be in line with, and probably just an elaboration/elucidation of what is already in the Book. My 2 cents. Quote
SivartM Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Perhaps this website could shed some light: http://notaprophet.org I'm convinced that Mr. Knoll is not a true prophet. His angel can't translate Greek correctly? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Quote: Ellen White claimed that people accused her of the same thing. We as a church can do just fine without Ellen White. There is far more danger in accept willy nilly ever person who claims to be a prophet ... than to just say NO. And to reject each and every one of these so called prophets. I will stand on the Bible and the Bible alone. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 We as a church can do just fine without Ellen White. There is far more danger in accept willy nilly ever person who claims to be a prophet ... than to just say NO. And to reject each and every one of these so called prophets. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 You can have your interpretation of what the Bible says .... And I will have mine. To each his own. You can bow to any prophet you want. I will stick with God. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BobRyan Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 ok - Let's "listen to the Bible" Then! In Matt 12:31-32 Christ tells the Pharisees that they are in danger of comitting the unpardonable sin in their claim that the power behind Christ's work was "the devil". In Matt 11 Jesus testifies that the Jews claimed that John the baptizer "had a demon". Ellen White claimed that people accused her of the same thing. Jesus was very clear that blasphemy against the Son of Man COULD be forgiven - but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 They are talking about 'God's' prophets ... not YOUR prophets. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
SivartM Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 They are talking about 'God's' prophets ... not YOUR prophets. Was Ellen White God's prophet or someone elses? :\ Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Joe_in_RP Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Quote: As you will see from the articles posted on this wesite, Ernie Knoll has admitted that he is not a very good Bible student. That's enough for me. Quote
Woody Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Gerr Posted March 17, 2009 Moderators Posted March 17, 2009 If the SDAC could have done "just fine" without EGW, why then did God bother to send her as His messenger? Quote
Robert Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 If the SDAC could have done "just fine" without EGW, why then did God bother to send her as His messenger? Because SDA weren't studying their Bibles - the measuring stick of truth. Hence EGW is made for lazy SDA. Rob Quote
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