I noticed some Wakeup Calls being given to sleeping Saints

[BobRyan]

My sources above were primarily the NASB - but at times I used the KJV.

What is your source for saying it is garbage??

Or did you mean to claim that the Christianity Today report given in the OP "does not exist"?

Or did you mean to claim that David Wilkerson's memo as reported on the OP "does not exist"?

Or did you mean to claim that you did any research at all into the details before concluding "out of the void" of what you had not researched?

Hand waiving and empty assertion works for evolutionism - but is a flawed form of "proof" anywhere else.

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

Quote:

I also think it is interesting that there was a huge push last year in the messages from God about preparing for the sealing and for the tragic natural disasters soon to come globally.

Perhaps you could provide some references for the 'huge' number of people who received these 'messages from God' about the coming disasters to effect the globe.

Who were these people?

What were the messages?

What are the disasters to effect the globe and when are they coming?

What are the credentials of these huge numbers of 'prophets'?

Have you personally tested Biblically each of these prophets?

[Lutz13]

I was hoping Ernie's dreams were from God. Just something about someone crying and cursing God hoping to die. And then say why can't you give me visions like the old days. That right there opens him up for a demon to come into his life.

That fallen angel has his trust. It would be easy to slip in small lies. There is a big difference between Ernie and Ellen. Ellen knew her bible. Ernie barely knows scripture. He was a name it claim it guy and all of a sudden God uses him? I don't buy it.

[BobRyan]

Just something about "Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you my prophesy" 1Cor 14:1 that opens someone up to satan???

How odd to see such a point argued on an SDA discussion board.

Is the Bible really so untrustworthy?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Interesting post below about a "huge number" of people predicting a global natural disaster. Maybe Redwood was assuming that Wilkerson represented a "huge number" when added to the SDA sources of the OP.

Quote:

I also think it is interesting that there was a huge push last year in the messages from God about preparing for the sealing and for the tragic natural disasters soon to come globally.

Perhaps you could provide some references for the 'huge' number of people who received these 'messages from God' about the coming disasters to effect the globe

"Huge push" turned into "Huge number" (compliments of Redwood) - but why???

How interesting.

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

Is the Bible really so untrustworthy?

Yes, but not when BobRyan is using it to promote a false prophet!

[BobRyan]

I've always wondered when it is that you turn from the Bible -- hmmm -- so you only do it when you see me quote scripture???

How odd.

So in your "untrustworthy bible" argument above and my quote of scripture -- are these scriptures the ones you are turning from? Or did you mean that THESE scriptures are the ones you are now "reading in full"??

The Bible of course -- says to listen.

Including the Amos 3:7

"Surely the Lord does nothing but He reveals His secrets to His servants the prophets".

Including the Prov 29

"Where there is no vision the people perish"

Including the 1Cor 14:1

"Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you may prophesy"

Including the 1Thess 5:19-20

"Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophetic messages"

Including the Matt 23

"I will send you prophets".

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I would like to get Ron Lambert's view on this - at some point.

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

Lesser light leading to a greater light. Sure, we can stand on the bible alone, IF we understood it in all it's complexity. I believe that was the primary reason Ellen White was called, to enlighten God's people to those complexities. With that enlightment one can in fact stand on the bible alone. Without it the best biblical minds of the 1800's were left scratching their heads and coming to incorrect conclusions. One could say NOW that we have been enlightened we can once again stand on the bible alone. But I'm a simple man, unable to grasp all it's deep meanings and complexities, I need the Spirit of Prophecy just as much today as did the founders in the 1800's.

[oldsailor29]

Lesser light leading to a greater light. Sure, we can stand on the bible alone, IF we understood it in all it's complexity. I believe that was the primary reason Ellen White was called, to enlighten God's people to those complexities. With that enlightment one can in fact stand on the bible alone. Without it the best biblical minds of the 1800's were left scratching their heads and coming to incorrect conclusions. One could say NOW that we have been enlightened we can once again stand on the bible alone. But I'm a simple man, unable to grasp all it's deep meanings and complexities, I need the Spirit of Prophecy just as much today as did the founders in the 1800's.

Right on bro. And Jesus said, "I am the light of the world." Jesus is the greater light to which all the prophets were attempting to lead us.

[BobRyan]

Ellen White makes that point when comparing John the baptizer to Jesus Christ.

Lesser light pointing to Greater light.

But notice that in all ages where there is a key transition in salvation history - God has His prophets on the ground giving step by step detail instruction so the church can navigate to safe harbor.

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

BobRyan, is it possible that Ellen White has led the people as far as she can, to date, and we are now in need of additional guidance from yet another modern day prophet?

A rhetorical question, actually. Of course it's possible. If so, who is this person, if he/she exists today? The answer remains illusive... The biblical tests for such a person have been provided, they should be applied virgorously to any who either make such a claim or are held up to such a claim by others.

I can't help but recall instances of those who bore truth and yet were found wanting in their personal lives, by the way. Not saying this fellow under discussion is in that camp, just pointing out a person's short comings are not necessarily a definitive "test". I don't personally have any knowledge of Ellen White making a serious mistake, but even if I did, I would not throw out her testimony, her body of work.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

Just something about "Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you my prophesy" 1Cor 14:1 that opens someone up to satan???

How odd to see such a point argued on an SDA discussion board.

Is the Bible really so untrustworthy?

in Christ,

Bob

Cursing, crying, wanting to die and pretty much forsaking God. Yes I believe that opens one up for a demon. Not to mention his lack of knowledge in scriptures.(Which he admits to)

Just my opinion though.

[oldsailor29]

Ellen White makes that point when comparing John the baptizer to Jesus Christ.

Lesser light pointing to Greater light.

But notice that in all ages where there is a key transition in salvation history - God has His prophets on the ground giving step by step detail instruction so the church can navigate to safe harbor.

in Christ,

Bob

His prophets all did the best they could, but Jesus Himself is the light of the world. There is no light in any additions or modifications of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said "All who came before me are robbers and thieves." IMO that statement was a bit strong for His prophets, because they did do their best I'm sure, but Jesus said it and I will not deny it.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Ellen White makes that point when comparing John the baptizer to Jesus Christ.

Lesser light pointing to Greater light.

But notice that in all ages where there is a key transition in salvation history - God has His prophets on the ground giving step by step detail instruction so the church can navigate to safe harbor.

in Christ,

Bob

His prophets all did the best they could, but Jesus Himself is the light of the world. There is no light in any additions or modifications of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said "All who came before me are robbers and thieves." IMO that statement was a bit strong for His prophets, because they did do their best I'm sure, but Jesus said it and I will not deny it.

Jesus stands on the mount of transfiguration speaking to Moses and Elijah "not condemning them" as robbers and theives, in Matt 17.

I know of now statement of Christ calling OT writers "robbers and theives".

Jesus stated in Matt 5 that He is not destroying the Word of God and that we should not think of his work as annuling or abolishing that word not in the least jot or dotted i.

Jesus said emphatically "the word of God can not be broken" and often quoted the OT authors.

Paul himself quotes from the Ten Commandments in Eph 6 as binding on the christian today.

I think God has been pretty clear about his purpose for prophets in 1Cor 12 and his statement that we should "desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially the gift of prophecy" in 1Cor 14:1.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

BobRyan, is it possible that Ellen White has led the people as far as she can, to date, and we are now in need of additional guidance from yet another modern day prophet?

[BobRyan]

I was hoping Ernie's dreams were from God. Just something about someone crying and cursing God

[Bravus]

bump

[Woody]

Hmmmmm.

[Lutz13]

I like that fiction that you add about 'cursing god' - nice twist. When did you first imagine it??

[oldsailor29]

I know of no statement of Christ calling OT writers "robbers and thieves".

Did this thread start out in town hall? If so, I wonder why it has not been moved to an appropriate forum? If not, I wonder why it was moved to town hall, and who is the joker who moved it? Anyway I am just responding to it where it is, and mean no disrespect to town hall.

That said Bob, here is the little known text in the book of John, to which I was referring.

John 10:7,8.

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers:

But back to the subject of Ernie Knolls. I accessed some of his items and found he was preaching the standard SDA line of theology. That could be the reason why so many people are against him, I don't know. But I believe a true modern day prophet of God will bear messages of new material. I believe he/she will uncover precious gems of truth long hidden. I have not read any of EK's prophetic messages, so I don't have any way to test his professed gift. But as long as he stays within the standard SDA line of theology, I think there will be nothing to fear from his testimony.

[BobRyan]

That said Bob, here is the little known text in the book of John, to which I was referring.

John 10:7,8.

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers:

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

That said Bob, here is the little known text in the book of John, to which I was referring.

John 10:7,8.

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers:

In the context - Christ never argues that "He was not the way" before the cross or that "He was not the door" before John 10. Christ argues that even before the cross - before the NT church -- He was always the way and the door.

The OT is the Word of Christ since Christ is God (As Ellen White points out).

So in John 10 Christ is talking about false messiahs and false prohpets that have come before Him -- but not about valid Bible writers -- not about the OT saints of Heb 11, not about the "Holy men of old" of 2Peter 1.

BTW - good to find an honest soul willing to look at the facts objectively and from a Bible based point of view. I always enjoy the discussion each time that happens!

Jesus didn't take away any of the OT, but He did reinterpret it. He stood the OT on its head. He turned it upside down. We can surely trust His reinterpretations, but we cannot trust our own. We have a tendency to have the same interpretations as the pharisees. In the context, Jesus was speaking of shepherding the flock. He called former shepherds thieves and robbers. This would refer to any spiritual leader whose interpretation differed from His. Jesus placed Moses in a bad light in comparison to Himself. It is true that Jesus is God, but God did not speak in the OT, except where He was quoted. Where Jesus was quoted in the NT is His law and His testimony, and a correct interpretation of it. Eating His flesh and drinking His blood is studying these quotes. Turning our eyes upon Jesus is studying these quotes. Lifting Jesus up is studying these quotes, and sharing them with other people. The number of precious gems of truth we can discover in the quotes of Jesus increases each time we read them.

Want to do something really exciting? Just go to the New Testament on line, and copy and paste all the quotes of Jesus into a separate document in your word processor. Then put them all in groups according to subject matter. A good method of grouping is by the seven elements of the ancient Suzerainty covenants. When you are finished, you will have a marvelous document full of precious gems of truth, all waiting to be discovered and dusted off for future viewing.

Here is a reminder of the Suzerainty covenant elements:

Suzerainty covenants seven elements:

1. Preamble – Identifies author and beneficiary

2. Historical prolog – History of relations between

the ruler and the beneficiary

3. Stipulations – Codes and expectations

4. Legal witnesses – Always the Holy Spirit

5. Periodic Public Reading – Church services

6. Blessings and Curses formulary – Benefits of

following Jesus, and warnings of the consequences

of not following.

7. Provision for a period of probation – The time we

are given to choose whom we will serve.

[Ted Oplinger]

Hmmm...Hasn't this man (Ernie Knoll) been outed as a false prophet as of current date?

[Richard Holbrook]

yep