I noticed some Wakeup Calls being given to sleeping Saints

[Robert]

They are talking about 'God's' prophets ... not YOUR prophets.

teehe

[BobRyan]

If the SDAC could have done "just fine" without EGW, why then did God bother to send her as His messenger?

[Woody]

Define 'prophetic utterances'. Does that include prophetic utterances from false prophets?

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

we accept false prophets at our peril, and reject true ones at our peril.

Being in total agreement with Bravus on this, I would like to pose the question:

Which is likely to be the more dangerous course, to ignore the output of a true prophet, or to accept the teachings of a false prophet?

Does the Bible give any advice on this question?

Graeme

This would seem to have something to do with the decision to follow a false prophet for we all are somewhat susceptible to deception, largely due to our personal pride of opinion.

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."James 4:17 KJV

OTOH it doesn't seem reasonable to me that a person who deliberately ignores the counsel of a spokesperson for God, wouldn't know what he/she was doing, although that might be debatable. If they did know they were ignoring the Lord's counsel given by a prophet, this below would seem to me to be where they would be standing.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."Exodus 20:3 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Ellen White claimed that people accused her of the same thing.

We as a church can do just fine without Ellen White. There is far more danger in accept willy nilly ever person who claims to be a prophet ... than to just say NO. And to reject each and every one of these so called prophets.

I will stand on the Bible and the Bible alone.

One cannot go wrong when seeking God's counsel through the written Word and while seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

"Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper."

2 Chronicles 20:20 KJV

Regards!

[BobRyan]

God's Word says "Test the prophets" 1john 4:1 -- not "Ignore the prophets so you can be safe"

God's Word says "Grieve not the Holy Spirit - despise not prophetic messages" 1Thess 5:19-20 -- not "Ignore all of God's modern messages to you this will never grieve the Holy Spirit"

There was never - in any age - "safety" in ignoring the warnings of God given through His prophets

Define 'prophetic utterances'. Does that include prophetic utterances from false prophets?

[SouthAfrican]

Interesting observation from my wife - and it might derail this thread a little bit, so apologies in advance.

We have been discussing Ellen White's message to get out of the city at our church recently, and it is interesting to observe that those people who aren't interested (or is against that) are those who've got expensive cars or jobs which are well paid.

We're in the process of doing repairs on our house so that we can sell it off for a good price, and relocate to the quieter countryside.

And the Lord is helping us in the process, we don't have much money, but He is helping a lot.

Greetings

E

[BobRyan]

It is actually on topic if you look at that OP! The warnings found there come from several sources as the OP shows. As the OP says -- A word to the wise is sufficient.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If the SDAC could have done "just fine" without EGW, why then did God bother to send her as His messenger?

Because SDA weren't studying their Bibles - the measuring stick of truth. Hence EGW is made for lazy SDA.

Rob

If you read the history of the SDAC, you will find that EGW did NOT spearhead the formulation of SDA doctrine. SDA doctrine came about through Bible studies that went on into the night by groups of people and through Bible conferences.

Check it out! It was when they reached an impasse that her visions became helpful as far as doctrine was concerned.

[Gerr]

Part of the reason we moved out of SoCal is because my wife and I believe the counsel to move to the country.

[phkrause]

Good Question Gerry. I think that when the SDA church was first being formed they needed someone to point them in the right direction. So God called others first but they didn't except, so than God asked Ellen and she excepted like Moses, not very willingly. I think that the church could probably use another one.

pk

[LifeHiscost]

We're in the process of doing repairs on our house so that we can sell it off

And the Lord is helping us in the process, we don't have much money, but He is helping a lot.

Greetings

E

Wishing you God's blessing as you move toward country living. I remember the comment through the Spirit of Prophecy that there would come a time when it would no longer be possible to get out of the cities. Not remembering the context I'm not sure what led to that conclusion. However here in California USA I'm satisfied it has, to some degree, become a present reality for many people who, as a result of the economic downturn, no longer can afford the expense of buying and resettling.

As a result of following the advice of the Spirit of Prophecy some forty or less years ago, and being of quite modest means, we asked God to lead us to a rent with option to buy, something that had not been prevalent in the housing market for a long time then, found a beautiful spot available with requirements just meeting our needs, that some pay thousands of dollars just to come visit. Now we live in an area where the hills are in our picture window, and if it weren't for TV and our interest in missions, we wouldn't know just how grateful we need to be for what God has provided in a world where the 37th Psalm has become reality for us.

"Do not fret because of evildoers,

Nor be envious of the workers of iniquity.

For they shall soon be cut down like the grass,

And wither as the green herb.

Trust in the LORD, and do good;

Dwell in the land, and feed on His faithfulness.

Delight yourself also in the LORD,

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

Commit your way to the LORD,

Trust also in Him,

And He shall bring it to pass.

He shall bring forth your righteousness as the light,

And your justice as the noonday.

Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for Him;

Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,

Because of the man who brings wicked schemes to pass.

Cease from anger, and forsake wrath;

Do not fret—it only causes harm.

For evildoers shall be cut off;

But those who wait on the LORD,

They shall inherit the earth.

For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;

Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,

But it shall be no more.

But the meek shall inherit the earth,

And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

The wicked plots against the just,

And gnashes at him with his teeth.

The Lord laughs at him,

For He sees that his day is coming.

The wicked have drawn the sword

And have bent their bow,

To cast down the poor and needy,

To slay those who are of upright conduct.

Their sword shall enter their own heart,

And their bows shall be broken.

A little that a righteous man has

Is better than the riches of many wicked.

For the arms of the wicked shall be broken,

But the LORD upholds the righteous.

The LORD knows the days of the upright,

And their inheritance shall be forever.

They shall not be ashamed in the evil time,

And in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.

But the wicked shall perish;

And the enemies of the LORD,

Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish.

Into smoke they shall vanish away.

The wicked borrows and does not repay,

But the righteous shows mercy and gives.

For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth,

But those cursed by Him shall be cut off.

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD,

And He delights in his way.

Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down;

For the LORD upholds him with His hand.

I have been young, and now am old;

Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken,

Nor his descendants begging bread.

He is ever merciful, and lends;

And his descendants are blessed.

Depart from evil, and do good;

And dwell forevermore.

For the LORD loves justice,

And does not forsake His saints;

They are preserved forever,

But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

The righteous shall inherit the land,

And dwell in it forever.

The mouth of the righteous speaks wisdom,

And his tongue talks of justice.

The law of his God is in his heart;

None of his steps shall slide.

The wicked watches the righteous,

And seeks to slay him.

The LORD will not leave him in his hand,

Nor condemn him when he is judged.

Wait on the LORD,

And keep His way,

And He shall exalt you to inherit the land;

When the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.

I have seen the wicked in great power,

And spreading himself like a native green tree.

Yet he passed away, and behold, he was no more;

Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found.

Mark the blameless man, and observe the upright;

For the future of that man is peace.

But the transgressors shall be destroyed together;

The future of the wicked shall be cut off.

But the salvation of the righteous is from the LORD;

He is their strength in the time of trouble.

And the LORD shall help them and deliver them;

He shall deliver them from the wicked,

And save them,

Because they trust in Him." Psalm 37 KJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Good Question Gerry. I think that when the SDA church was first being formed they needed someone to point them in the right direction. So God called others first but they didn't except, so than God asked Ellen and she excepted like Moses, not very willingly. I think that the church could probably use another one.

pk

After having read Steve Wohlberg's reaction to Ernie Knorr's dreams I'm satisfied it best to withhold final conclusions about placing a great deal of confidence in the dreams as being from the Lord. While the dreams do, at least what I read, seem to elicit a sense of urgency in preparing for the coming of Jesus and fortifying ourselves by the Holy Spirit, if one were to believe that an angel from God is giving us advice to withhold tithe from the organized body of Seventh Day Adventists, many acting on that advice could greatly cripple the very avenue God has chosen to cooperate with Him in finishing the work in this sin sick world.

While God's Spirit is poured out on all flesh in these last days, that is not saying that all, or even the majority, will accept the call of sacrifice to fulfill God's plea. After all, Noah's time, 120 years spent building the ark didn't seem to impress too many.

"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."Matthew 24:37 KJV

"Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."Psalm 50:5 KJV

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

2 Peter 3:11-13 NASB

Regards!

[BobRyan]

I took a very in-depth look at both Wohlberg and Eugene Prewitt's writeup on this subject before coming to my conclusions. They both seem to agree that the most significant complaint about Ernie is the tithe issue. So I did find it "more than a little confusing" that they spent so much time on what amounted to other frivolous non-Bible tests that were mostly made up on the spot.

But as to the tithe question -- I was suprised to find that they were so careful NOT to include the balancing fact that Ellen White approved a very similar position as to the one that Ernie published in 2008 on this question. I found that fact alone to be shocking.

And as I checked into the details I found that when some conference leaders of Ellen White's day began to publically question those engaged in the activity that Ellen White was also engaged in (supporting non-funded ministries and even pastors WIVES with her tithe money) -- she made it very clear that they should back off because the giving of tithes to neglected ministry is not a form of "not paying tithe" as the conference leaders in her day wanted to "assume". She also urged that people hold the conference accountable for bad use of tithe funds. (Not that Ernie Knoll has ever asked for tithe funds -- but the point is that Ellen White approved of this)

I was amazed that not one bit of the balancing information was presented by either Wohlberg or Prewitt on that subject and YET they both agreed it was the most substantial argument by far among all that have been raised! I was totally at a loss to explain why they would have slanted the presentation like that. The balancing information is now in public domain - they had to know we would see it with a little digging.

Very "instructive".

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I think that when the SDA church was first being formed they needed someone to point them in the right direction... so than God asked Ellen... I think that the church could probably use another one.pk

-- As the OP stated - people near Huntsville March 28 and Atlanta April 11 will have a chance to see for themselves.

in Christ,

Bob

[LifeHiscost]

I was amazed that not one bit of the balancing information was presented by either Wohlberg or Prewitt on that subject and YET they both agreed it was the most substantial argument by far among all that have been raised! I was totally at a loss to explain why they would have slanted the presentation like that. The balancing information is now in public domain - they had to know we would see it with a little digging.

Very "instructive".

in Christ,

Bob

Thanks for bringing up that particular circumstance re: balancing. One of the reasons why a person is wise to search diligently (wise as serpents) in forming a personal conclusion based on the Spirit of Prophecy is because of the voluminous amount of literature in those writings. Having read a good amount from that source I can verify your reference, although it was so long ago I did not remember it until you made mention.

I can say that my own assessment of brother Knorr's confidence in the dreams is not based upon any fault on his part but more from my personal recognition that all that the dreams have revealed to him can be found in the Spirit of Prophecy writings that already exist, at least in principle.

This may be one reason God has allowed another source of information to be opened up, because God in His mercy realizes how many have been misled into believing the Spirit of Prophecy to be unfit to lead people to believe in the Word. Those who are already established in the Word need not fear a false prophet since they already try everything newly discovered, by the Word, whereas those who are deficient in seeking guidance from the Word will either be motivated to search the Word to see if the dreams are truly on target or it will propel them to arrive at unsanctified reasoning, revealing the heart that only serves God from self interest instead of love for the brethren and for the glory of God.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."Matthew 13:13

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

Blessings!

[BobRyan]

Good points all. How interesting that naysayers respond to the fact that much good is done through the work and ministry of these people moved by God -- by saying that some is of God and some is of well ... some evil source. Ellen White said - "There is no partnership between the devil and God" when someone said that the reason that her writings had so much good in them was that some of it really was the message of God but other parts were the work of satan.

The parallels in this case are astounding!!

Another thing to look at carefully is how Ellen White was also attacked even by the Battle Creek leadership to the point that she said she felt she was "all alone". (See again Testimony #13 in volume 1 of the testimonies).

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Quote:

After having read Steve Wohlberg's reaction to Ernie Knorr's dreams I'm satisfied it best to withhold final conclusions about placing a great deal of confidence in the dreams as being from the Lord.

That' my position right now - wait and see. I've only read a small portion of what he said. Sooner or later, if his dreams from are from other than divine source, his revelations will deviate farther and farther from the truth.

When W. Ray first came out with his plagiarism charge, I took a "wait-and-see" attitude, and my confidence in the SOP has been strengthened since those tumultuous times.

[BobRyan]

That is fine. I am sticking with the view that it would have been much better for Wohlberg to show how his arguments do not condemn the work of Ellen White as she did the very thing he claims Ernie should be condemned for doing AND she endorsed others doing it as well.

If the "test" of his best argument (as Eugene Prewitt observes) proves to be as flawed as that one appears to be - then in my opinion - it needs more work. The fact that he does not make any effort at all to show that his complaints against Ernie can survive that review of Ellen White's own counsel on that very subject - is astounding -- IMHO.

As for my own interest in this - I have some of my own reasons for wanting to strongly support Ed Reid's work and ministry so when I came across this I was somewhat biased against Ernie's ministry and had hoped that either Wohlberg or Prewitt or somebody had some kind of Bible based argument that was solid ground. But to my shock and surprise...

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Have you ever read some Bible story or some account from the 1800's and said to yourself "IF I had lived back then I would have chosen the side of the lone prophets standing for the right though the heavens fall". Well now as we see in the OP -- we are once again living in one of those times.

So what Bible study and prayer and acting-on faith patterns do you have such that "you" too are so practiced and listening to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and testing against the Word of God - that you too should be one of the "few" who chose the right path when all around you were failing the test?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Another TownHall subject thread has come up - on this "current signs" and "wakeup call" topic --

Regarding something that Steve Wohlberg sent out.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/229946/Elder_Darnall_s_dream.html#Post229946

[phkrause]

Thanks bob for the info

pk

[BobRyan]

Glad to do it!

Stay tuned!!

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Interesting Meeting held in Atlanta on April 11 with Ernie and Becky Knoll giving the presentation in person and lots of Q&A at the end of the meeting.

I also think it is interesting that there was a huge push last year in the messages from God about preparing for the sealing and for the tragic natural disasters soon to come globally.

It is as if the warning went out - and now those who will listen either do listen -- or they do not.

The Bible of course -- says to listen.

Including the Amos 3:7

"Surely the Lord does nothing but He reveals His secrets to His servants the prophets".

Including the Prov 29

"Where there is no vision the people perish"

Including the 1Cor 14:1

"Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you may prophesy"

Including the 1Thess 5:19-20

"Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophetic messages"

Including the Matt 23

"I will send you prophets".

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

Garbage.

This belongs in the conspiracies forum.

It's about as credible.

Like ... what is your source?