How do we overcome sin?

[Robert]

And if you go to the sanctuary in heaven, it is there that Christ is doing His priestly ministry on your behalf, applying what He did 2000 yrs ago to believers HERE AND NOW.

Whatever you say, Gerry....

Christ represents me in himself. Christ is the sanctuary.

Rob

[Gerr]

Lutz & Robert,

Here is another variation of the same command (Love your neighbor AS you love yourself.)

"Do unto others AS you would have them do to you."

And until you guys sell everything you have and give them to your neighbors, all this loving others without love for self is nothing but a pious charade!

[LifeHiscost]

You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439]

Note, there's no self in the above love. You live, not for your own needs, but the wealth of another.

"In heaven none will think of self .... but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

Again, note..."None will think of self"

That won't go on in heaven. Why?

I won't have my nature.

It might be wise to consider all of the aspects of love. Perhaps these texts may mean we're building and planting for someone else, BOTOH we are made to understand by the wording of the text that we're building and planting for our own benefit. Hopefully the benefits are meant to be shared as well as personally used, which includes considering self.

"They shall build houses and inhabit them;

They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

They shall not build and another inhabit;

They shall not plant and another eat;

For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,

And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. "Isaiah 65:20-22 KJV

And another thing one might consider. It is written that the meek shall inherit the earth. Perhaps these texts only describe the reward of those who inherit the earth as opposed to inheriting heaven. If that is true and providing something by and for one's self is considered selfish and sinful, then the rewards of the saints who are meek on earth makes them a little selfish as well as sinful.

Perhaps there will be two classifications of saints in the universe made clean. Those who are saintly and those who are not so saintly.

Regards!

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

"You shall love your neighbor as you love yourself."

That's not for sale; it's a command.

How many commands?

Gerry, there's only one command: Love your neighbor! How? as you love self![/quote']

Therefore, no love for self, no love for neighbor!!!

Quote:

Where did you get that self-love from? Mom!

"But the fruit of the Spirit is AGAPE...." Gal 5:22

[Robert]

It might be wise to consider all of the aspects of love.

[LifeHiscost]

Personally we need to get our eyes on Christ and off buildings....

Rob

The best way to get the principle of the Word presented, is to spend time with it. The best way to avoid the possibility of enlightenment is to avoid the Word.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17 KJV

"“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."John 5:24 NKJV

Regards!

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Rob

Gerry, there's only one command: Love your neighbor! How? as you love self!

Therefore, no love for self, no love for neighbor!!!

[Robert]

Perhaps these texts may mean we're building and planting for someone else,

They shall not build and another inhabit;

They shall not plant and another eat;

In this world (depending where you live) if I want your house...your food, I simply come over and shoot you...Or make a slave of you. That's won't be happening in heaven....That's all it is saying....Also, you are immortal there....So no one will be living there after you die because you won't die.

But, instead you twist this to promote the love of self. It's my house...it's my food, mine, mine, all mine!!!...Well, get that out of your system here because you wont think of yourself in heaven. Self is the invention of Lucifer. He said to God, how can one be happy only living for others? What we angels need is to love ourselves.

[Robert]

When Satan rebelled against God in heaven [Revelation 12:7-9], he was really rebelling against the God’s agape love the spirit of His law [Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:10; Galatians 5:13-14]. The idea that “love (agape) seeketh not her own” (i.e., self) [1 Corinthians 13:5] was too restrictive to Lucifer. Consequently he objected to it and introduced the principle of self-love or eros [Ezekiel 28:15; Isaiah 14:12-14]. Therefore, ever since his fall, the enemy of God and man (Satan) has hated the concept of agape. When this concept was restored to the human race through the preaching of the gospel, he naturally was ready to attack it with all his might [Revelation 12:10-12].[JS]

[Robert]

The Origin of Sin

Sin originated in heaven in the mind of Lucifer, the leader of the angels [see Ezekiel 28:14,15]. The Bible doesn’t explain how sin could arise in a perfect being, because sin is unexplainable. That is why it is referred to as the “mystery of iniquity” [2 Thessalonians 2:7].

The essence of Lucifer’s sin was self-exaltation [see Isaiah 14:12-14]. Self-centeredness, the love of self, is the underlying principle of all sin. It is in complete opposition to the principle of selfless, self-sacrificing love, which is the foundation of God’s character and government [see 1 John 4:7, 8, 16]. Sin, then, is basically rebellion against God and His self-sacrificing love.

Lucifer’s sin eventually led to open warfare in heaven. He and the angels who sided with him were defeated and cast out of heaven [see Revelation 12:7-9]. Although sin originated in heaven in the mind of Lucifer, God did not allow it to develop in heaven. It was here on earth that Lucier and his angels developed the principle of sin after they were expelled from heaven. [JS]

[LifeHiscost]

People put too much faith in their religion. Put it in Christ where it needs to be.

The church is us, the bride of Christ.

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Hebrews 10:25 KJV

While I admit an Adventist church building doesn't have to be where one would attend to worship God, it plainly identifies where a great number of people who preach the nearness of Jesus coming for the second time, are, as well as identifying the same ones who remember the only commandment God specifically designated as the one to remember.

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Christ is the sanctuary.

Rob

It's easy to make that logic when one ignores a major portion of the Holy Scriptures.

Regards!

[Robert]

-BC- 2T

-TI- Testimonies for the Church Volume Two

-CN- 28

-CT- Worldliness in the Church

-PR- 02

-PG- 197

Selfishness girds many about as with iron bands. It is “my farm,” “my goods,” “my trade,” “my merchandise.” Even the claims of common humanity are disregarded by them. Men and women professing to be waiting and loving the appearing of their Lord are shut up to self . The noble, the godlike, they have parted with. The love of the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, have so fastened upon them that they are blinded. They are corrupted by the world and discern it not.

[Gerr]

You are taking EGW statements in the most extreme light possible. Consider the following:

"Every human being, created in the image of God, is endowed with a power akin to that of the Creator-- individuality, power to think and to do. The men in whom this power is developed are the men who bear responsibilities, who are leaders in enterprise, and who influence character. It is the work of true education to develop this power, to train the youth to be thinkers, and not mere reflectors of other men's thought." Ed 17.

Hmmmmmm. No thought of self?

"There every power will be developed, every capability increased. The grandest enterprises will be carried forward, the loftiest aspirations will be reached, the highest ambitions realized. And still there will arise new heights to surmount, new wonders to admire, new truths to comprehend, fresh objects to call forth the powers of body and mind and soul." {Ed 307.4}

No thought of self?

"Let pupils be impressed with the thought that the body is a temple in which God desires to dwell, that it must be kept pure, the abiding place of high and noble thoughts. As in the study of physiology they see that they are indeed "fearfully and wonderfully made" (Psalm 139:14), they will be inspired with reverence. Instead of marring God's handiwork, they will have an ambition to make all that is possible of themselves, in order to fulfill the Creator's glorious plan. Thus they will come to regard obedience to the laws of health, not as a matter of sacrifice or self-denial, but as it really is, an inestimable privilege and blessing." {Ed 201.1}

No thought of self?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Christ is the sanctuary.

Rob

It's easy to make that logic when one ignores a major portion of the Holy Scriptures.

Regards!

Words...mere words....Christ is everything, buildings are meaningless. Get your eyes off all the side issues and focus on Christ.

Rob

[Robert]

You are taking EGW statements in the most extreme light possible.

[Robert]

Hmmmmmm. No thought of self?

Let it be noted that Gerry mocks EGW.

Rob

[Gerr]

Quote:

So God was not telling the Israelites the truth?

So was Paul lying to the Athenians?

"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them"(Matthew 18:20)

People put too much faith in their religion. Put it in Christ where it needs to be.

There is nothing the devil would like better than to see believers making the Word contradicting itself! It is NOT an either or! While God cannot be confined in some little box, He did command the building of the sanctuary as a constant visible manifestation of His presence among His people.

For someone to dismiss it with, "get off buildings" or something to that effect as though it has nothing to teach when in fact it has so much to teach us about the plan of salvation appears to me as too condescending or belittling God's teaching method.

[Robert]

-BC- Ed

-TI- Education

-CN- 25

-CT- Education and Character

-PR- 04

-PG- 225

At such a time as this, what is the trend of the education given? To what motive is appeal most often made? To self-seeking. Much of the education given is a perversion of the name. In true education the selfish ambition, the greed for power, the disregard for the rights and needs of humanity, that are the curse of our world, find a counterinfluence. God’s plan of life has a place for every human being. Each is to improve his talents to the utmost; and faithfulness in doing this....

Why? To live for others....

[Robert]

For someone to dismiss it with, "get off buildings" or something to that effect as though it has nothing to teach when in fact it has so much to teach us the plan of salvation is belittling God's teaching method.

That was for Israel....We now have Christ....Everything pointed to Christ....Get with the NT. Get off the building...as a matter of fact, jump off! teehe

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

For someone to dismiss it with, "get off buildings" or something to that effect as though it has nothing to teach when in fact it has so much to teach us the plan of salvation is belittling God's teaching method.

That was for Israel....We now have Christ....Everything pointed to Christ....Get with the NT. Get off the building...as a matter of fact, jump off! teehe

"Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man." Heb 8:1,2 ESV.

[Lutz13]

And until you guys sell everything you have and give them to your neighbors, all this loving others without love for self is nothing but a pious charade!

Until you sell everything and follow Christ you are not His...You see how you just made yourself look? You think things just happen right away? When I learn of a new truth I am to follow it right away without struggle?

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

People put too much faith in their religion. Put it in Christ where it needs to be.

The church is us, the bride of Christ.

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Hebrews 10:25 KJV

While I admit an Adventist church building doesn't have to be where one would attend to worship God, it plainly identifies where a great number of people who preach the nearness of Jesus coming for the second time, are, as well as identifying the same ones who remember the only commandment God specifically designated as the one to remember.

Regards!

There is nothing wrong with that. I attend an SDA church and enjoy the fellowship. My faith is in Christ though, not the SDA church! God has people in all religions. They will come out when that light is given to them by God.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Hmmmmmm. No thought of self?

Let it be noted that Gerry mocks EGW.

Rob

Belittle your opponent. Mock him. Twist his words.

No. I was not mocking EGW. I have too much respect for her. What I was doing was to present to you statements that tell me that you have taken her statements you quotes in way way beyond what she intended. That should not be suprising since you do the same violence to Scripture. The Bible says: Love your neighbor AS you love yourself.

What have you done? You claim, no, you are to love only your neighbor; it is a sin to love yourself!

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

And until you guys sell everything you have and give them to your neighbors, all this loving others without love for self is nothing but a pious charade!

Until you sell everything and follow Christ you are not His...You see how you just made yourself look? You think things just happen right away? When I learn of a new truth I am to follow it right away without struggle?

God asks us to forsake/abandon those things that come between Him and us. I don't believe God is in the business of making every believer poor.

And you think I'm resisting because what you are presenting is new truth? Not at all. I heard it decades ago. I compared it with Scripture and it doesn't square with what it says!