The 27, I mean 28 Fundamentals

[wayfinder]

Da 9:4 I prayed to the LORD my God and confessed and said, "Alas, O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments,

Joh 14:21

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Mr 10:19

"You know the commandments, `DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.' "

Re 12:17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Here, spelled out, is our relationship with the Son of God.

A number of years ago I offered a challenge. Show me from anywhere in the Bible, except from the writings of Paul, his protege Luke, or the unknown writer of Hebrews, where the Law was subordinated to the shed blood of the Son of God. I am not in any way saying the blood of the Son of God is not necessary for salvation, only that it is not what it is commonly believed to be.

[Robert]

The covenant of love is the Ten Commandments which were kept in the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy Place in the Sanctuary.

Heresy....

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

The covenant of love is the Ten Commandments which were kept in the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy Place in the Sanctuary.

Heresy....

Gal 3:17 The covenant God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God's promise. But God gave it to Abraham as a promise. 19 Well then, why was the law given? It was given to show people how guilty they are.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world [the human race] may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law [your performance] no flesh will be justified in His sight, [why?] for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

[wayfinder]

The covenant God made with Abraham was that his offspring would live on and possess the land of his (Abraham's) sojourn.

Genesis 12:2

And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;

I am not impressed with quotations from Paul.

[Ron Amnsn]

Your post doesn't sound at all like the 28 are falling into place, my friend. You say you do not believe in the Investigative Judgment, yet of course that this one of the 28, so in what way are the 28 "falling into place"?

Because the "Investigative Judgment" is not found in Scripture, it naturally gets neglected when a person studies the Scriptures for themselves and maintains a relationship with Jesus. When any non-Scriptural doctrine is placed into a man-made creed it has been seriously misplaced.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

The covenant of love is the Ten Commandments which were kept in the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy Place in the Sanctuary.

Heresy....

"If you LOVE Me, you will keep my commandments." by a Heretic?

[wayfinder]

Da 7:10 "A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

Court sat, books were opened, sounds like investigative judgment to me.

[Robert]

I am not impressed with quotations from Paul.

Then you must disregard 53% of the NT. Paul is the main man in the NT. Without Paul it would be very hard to understand the gospel.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Heresy....

"If you LOVE Me' date=' you will keep my commandments." by a Heretic?

[/quote']

Is Christ talking of the Ten Commandments? If so, using the immediate context, prove it.

[Ron Amnsn]

Da 7:10 "A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

Court sat, books were opened, sounds like investigative judgment to me.

Sounds like court and judgment. How would a person who had never read the creed know what an "investigative judgment" sounds like? It's a made-up term not found in Scripture.

[Robert]

Here's the immediate context:

John 14:10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work [what work?]. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." 22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?" 23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. [NIV]

[wayfinder]

I did already, here it is again.

Mark 10:17-21 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. "You know the commandments, `DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.' " And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Jesus is actually calling him to be one of His desciples (come follow Me)

[Robert]

15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Here's the problem, if Jesus is speaking of the Ten Commandments then we have a problem Huston! Why? Let's assume Jesus is speaking of the Ten Commandments. Let's read it thus:

1] If you love me, you will obey what my Ten Commandments

2] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever

Do you see a problem?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

I am not impressed with quotations from Paul.

Then you must disregard 53% of the NT. Paul is the main man in the NT. Without Paul it would be very hard to understand the gospel.

I have to agree with you Robert. If we start picking and choosing which parts and which authors we are going to believe in the Bible .... we are on dangerous grounds.

[wayfinder]

Re 3:21 `He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

He who overcomes...as I overcame. The Son of God did not overcome for us He overcame so we could overcome, as He did.

[Robert]

I did already, here it is again. Mark 10:17-21 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. "You know the commandments, `DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.' " And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

1] When you came to Christ did you say, "What good thing shall I do to gain eternal life"?

2] What do you do with, "No one is good except God alone"

3] Have you sold all that you possess? After all Christ gave up heaven to die the 2nd death. He gave up everything for you. Have you done the same for your fellow men?

[Robert]

Re 3:21 `He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Are you perfect? Are you living Christ's life of complete selflessness?

"This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith."

[wayfinder]

So we keep Paul so we have a thicker New Testement. Do we really need more than the testimony of the Son of God when He walked among us and testified to the truth?

Joh 21:24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his (Son of God) testimony is true.

[Robert]

So we keep Paul so we have a thicker New Testement.

If you deny Paul you'll become a legalist....You'll become a Pharisee....You, i.e., your nature, will deceive you that you are measuring up.....Paul keeps NT Christians balanced.

Rob

[wayfinder]

I am not the judge of my state of being. One thing I know, I keep the commandments of God and study and honor the testimony of my Teacher, the Son of God.

[Robert]

One thing I know, I keep the commandments of God

No you don't....You are not measuring up. Would you like me to prove it?

[wayfinder]

Robert, history does not have to repeat itself.

I see a difference between legalizm and law abiding. I am sure you obey the "laws of the land" and don't see that as legalizm, the same is true with the law of God. Those groups you name used the law for personal gain and control, this was and is not God's will.

[wayfinder]

You be the judge? You don't even know me.

[wayfinder]

Paul keeps NT Christians ballanced? Is that like yin and yang

[Robert]

You be the judge? You don't even know me.

No, the law says, "There is none good, no, not even one." And Christ says, "There is none good except one, that is, God." John states that, "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves". Paul says, "All have sinned (past tense) and fall short (present tense) of the glory of God (His goodness).

Rob